# I oppose a policy of automatically banning the White Nationalists **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 16, 2002, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509 "2002-10-16T14:05:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![hawthorne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c89c15/32.png) [@hawthorne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hawthorne)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/101 "2002-10-19T17:50:58Z")
> [@](#): > > _gobear_ > Oops, I put Puccini and Verdi in twice. Well, I like them twice as much as any other composer. Ugh. Ugh! I’ve put up with a lot from you, young man. But now your tiny hand is frozen out. ---
**Author:** ![Sionnach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sionnach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionnach)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/102 "2002-10-19T19:19:24Z")
Minty, Western Civilization is the civilization and history by the people of Europe. > [@](#): > > No, equally stupid for all. Emphasis on “stupid.” _You_ might personally claim that you believe that all identity politics are stupid, yet I know full well that non-white identity politics are embraced by the left and mainstream while the idea of Caucasians banding together for a common interest is shunned more than a Luciferian cult. When there is an Asian-American alliance club or Eastern Civ class, do the majority of leftists dismiss it as “silly” because “There is so much diversity among Asians that it’s silly for them to celebrate any common interests and heritage”? Do AmerIndian organizations get ridiculed as preposterous? Do leftists heckle MECHA and the NAACP because they think “Race doesn’t exist”? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/103 "2002-10-19T19:46:52Z")
> [@](#): > > But now your tiny hand is frozen out LOVE “Che Gelida Manina”! > [@](#): > > You might personally claim that you believe that all identity politics are stupid, yet I know full well that non-white identity politics are embraced by the left and mainstream while the idea of Caucasians banding together for a common interest is shunned more than a Luciferian cult. People form identity groups for all sorts of reasons, but mostly as minority groups that can’t find support elsewhere in the larger society, like Asian-American groups, or to secure civil rights, as the NAACP does. White groups could form, but for what reason? To celebrate European heritage? It’s celebrated every day. Every piece of art, every symphony, almost every TV program and movie is by and about white, heterosexual Protestants. Being white is considered the norm in the US–there’s a reason blacks, Latinis, and Asians are considered “minorities”. There are European ethnic heritage groups all over the place: German singing, Irish dancing, Scots drum and fife corps… If you want to celebrate your heritage, join one in your area. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/104 "2002-10-19T19:49:17Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Sionnach \* > Minty, Western Civilization is the civilization and history by the people of Europe. Which, as I noted and you conceded above, is and always has been a highly diverese group of people and cultures. So you’re left with the same definitional problem with which you and I started this discussion: What are the characteristics of “white culture” that embrace all of the highly diverese (and often diametrically opposed) cultures and civilizations of Europe? You’re going to have to identify those common characteristics eventually. > [@](#): > > _You_ might personally claim that you believe that all identity politics are stupid, Allow me to clarify my rather flippant statement above. “Identity” groups are unambiguously stupid (and remember, you _did_ ask my opinion on that) when the “identity” is based on skin color. If a group wants to get together and celebrate its common heritage–a real common heritage, not just skin color–then I have no complaint at all. > [@](#): > > yet I know full well that non-white identity politics are embraced by the left and mainstream while the idea of Caucasians banding together for a common interest is shunned more than a Luciferian cult. Nonsense. Heck, I’ve personally attended Irish, Scottish, German, Greek, and Turkish festivals in the last couple years, and Cinco de Mayo kicks ass. Nobody complains one bit about those kinds of festivals–where people are actually celebrating shared national heritage. Problem is, there ain’t no such thing as “white culture,” just a bunch of folks who share more or less the same skin color. > [@](#): > > When there is an Asian-American alliance club or Eastern Civ class, do the majority of leftists dismiss it as “silly” because “There is so much diversity among Asians that it’s silly for them to celebrate any common interests and heritage”? Remember, I don’t like skin-color identity groups, so I think the “Asian-American alliance club” is kind of stupid. On the other hand, an “Eastern Civ” class is every bit as legitimate as a Western Civ class, and nobody whines about those (except to the extent that they crowd out history courses for other portions of the world). > [@](#): > > Do leftists heckle MECHA and the NAACP because they think “Race doesn’t exist”? Race exists, sweetie–as a social construct. [sub]What the heck is MECHA?[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/105 "2002-10-19T19:53:41Z")
> [@](#): > > But now your tiny hand is frozen out LOVE “Che Gelida Manina”! > [@](#): > > You might personally claim that you believe that all identity politics are stupid, yet I know full well that non-white identity politics are embraced by the left and mainstream while the idea of Caucasians banding together for a common interest is shunned more than a Luciferian cult. People form identity groups for all sorts of reasons, but mostly as minority groups that can’t find support elsewhere in the larger society, like Asian-American groups, or to secure civil rights, as the NAACP does. White groups could form, but for what reason? To celebrate European heritage? It’s celebrated every day. Every piece of art, every symphony, almost every TV program and movie is by and about white, heterosexual Protestants. Being white is considered the norm in the US–there’s a reason blacks, Latinos, and Asians are considered “minorities”. There are European ethnic heritage groups all over the place: German singing, Irish dancing, Scots drum and fife corps… If you want to celebrate your heritage, join one in your area. Now if you want to claim that your ethnic identity makes you superior to other groups, and that you want to make people darker than you leave the US, or take away their rights, as several of your moderators, like Muad’dib, have said, then that’s something completely antithetical to what America is all about. ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/106 "2002-10-19T20:03:59Z")
Sionnach, would you like to start a thread in the Great Debates forum to discuss this? The Pit is really for rants and questions about the administration of the site, not debates. Obviously, we know you are a SFer, but we have not banned you because you haven’t spammed or socked or been an ass yet. We will continue to ban the people who just wander over to post a bunch of copyrighted articles as threads and then bolt, people who act like jerks, banned posters who try to sneak back in, and posters who just post to muck up the site. Since invading and “taking over” other messageboards seems to be a enjoyable occupation of at least a decent number of SF, we wish to make it VERY CLEAR that we will not tolerate this. The rules in GD are: 1. No direct personal insults. “That argument is stupid”==OK. “You are stupid”==not OK. “You are racist”==OK. “Fuck off, racist”==not OK. “You are a liar”==OK “You fucking liar”==not OK. “Dirty” words are allowed in moderation and if not directed at other posters. 2. No ethnic slurs. No “kike”, “faggot” , “mud people”, etc. 3. No links to hate sites or porn. Obviously you will want to link to WN sites, but there better not be any virulent hatred or advocacy of illegal activities there. Assuming you are quoting reputable researchers, you will probably be able to find cites somewhere besides [niggersshoulddie.com](http://niggersshoulddie.com). 4. Assume all material is copyrighted unless otherwise stated…so don’t C&P large chunks of material somone else wrote. Use links or short, relevant excepts (like a paragraph or two). 5. No threats against board members. 6. Don’t be a jerk. You seem well spoken enough so far, so I doubt you will have any trouble if you coninue to post in the same manner. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/107 "2002-10-19T20:11:04Z")
But what about “Jewspeak,” **Gaudere**? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/108 "2002-10-19T20:15:31Z")
Sionnach Given Gaudere’s welcome, I’d like you to consider opening a Great Debate topic. I’ll even meet you half way by acknowledging your most recent point as having some merit. I have to say that I am often put off when such diverse people as the Pequot and the Shoshone are lumped into one group. Nevertheless, there are quite many examples of things diverse tribes of Indians share culturally that most others don’t. So, I am willing to concede your point that there might be a double standard often applied. In fact, I’m often flummoxed when I see people decry the existence of race and then turn right around to cite studies showing that Blacks are indeed as intelligent as Whites. If those races don’t exist, then the studies cited are worthless. I also cringe a bit when someone asks something like “what is western civilization?”. I might be betraying my age, but it was something we spent a whole year studying in high school. I do wonder, though, why the white supremacists make an issue out of homosexuality. Even if race does exist, there are homosexuals in every race including the white one. So why the hatred of gays? I noticed that, at your board, there is a rule against insulting white people. And yet, I saw one of your moderators call a white man a “queer”. Wasn’t that insulting a white person? That rule, by the way, is the main reason I won’t post there. I saw no mention of a rule against insulting other races. I am Cherokee and I don’t see what it would profit me to endure your insults. So, I guess I’m asking whether you make even further distinctions than what you perceive as race. Is it really more like White Strictly Heterosexual Mainstream Protestant Gentile Unadulterated European Descent Supremacy? … Oh, yeah. And by the way, what exactly is “jewspeak”? ---
**Author:** ![Sionnach](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/76d3ee/32.png) [@Sionnach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sionnach)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/109 "2002-10-19T20:19:24Z")
Your wishes respected, Gaudere. I actually only came here because I noticed someone mentioning my name. Cya in debates, Lib. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/110 "2002-10-19T20:22:42Z")
Gobear wrote: > [@](#): > > People form identity groups for all sorts of reasons, but mostly as minority groups that can’t find support elsewhere in the larger society, like Asian-American groups, or to secure civil rights, as the NAACP does. I trust and respect you, and so I wish you would explain that one to me. How can it be that there exist a minorities based on race if race itself doesn’t exist? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/111 "2002-10-19T20:24:19Z")
Sionnach Just curious… How did you know my familiar monicker of “Lib”? ---
**Author:** ![Gaudere](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e495f1/32.png) [@Gaudere](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gaudere)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/112 "2002-10-19T20:29:01Z")
> [@](#): > > But what about “Jewspeak,” Gaudere? I think that’s one of the dumbest, most ignorant terms I’ve ever seen. I mean, Jews talks the same as all the rest of us, far as I can tell (when they’re speaking English, that is). If sarcasm is “jewspeak”, the SDMB is a vertible Kaplan study course in it. Even the littlest dopers could ace a Jewspeak as a Second Language Test. Maybe we should offer our services as translators to the poor WN for whom “jewspeak” is so confusing. We could provide closed-captioned posts for them so that they will understand when the dopers are being sarcastic. “You mean when that black man said he could think of nothing better than being our slaves, _he didn’t really mean it?_ Oh, that was so horrible! I am so distressed! That horrible Jewspeak. Why, we white nationalists never use sarcasm at all, and we never learned to use context to determine whether someone is being serious or mocking. What a filthy Jew idea, to use inflection and context to give a phrase a different meaning than what is actually stated! Why, that could allow for complex meanings to be portrayed subtly. We must never allow such a thing to pollute our pure White Language.” Seriously, I think it’s such a stupid term I may disallow it on that fact alone. Either that or I’ll just continue to mock it. ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/113 "2002-10-19T20:36:38Z")
Hey, it’s always a good day when you can prompt an Administrator to toss off such a fine rant. It’s like watching Michael Jordan leave his ownership office, put 50 points on the board, then head back upstairs to balance the team’s books. Oh yeah, she’s still got it. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/114 "2002-10-19T20:43:24Z")
So, it means sarcasm? 😃 Hell, my grandmother is the world’s master jewspeaker, then! And she’s pure Injun! ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/115 "2002-10-19T20:59:35Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Sionnach > > Just curious… How did you know my familiar monicker of “Lib”? \*\* Don’t know that " **Lib"** for “ **Libertarian** ” is such a strech. but if **Sionnach** had known your _other_ familiar monicker of ‘Cutey-whootie-pie-chocolate-bunnies’ you’d have had something. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/116 "2002-10-19T21:02:58Z")
In context, “jewspeak” certainly embraces sarcasm (only if directed towards WN’s, of course), but seems to include pretty much any statement that questions the beliefs and assumptions of a WN mod. It’s kind of all-purpose in that regard. And asking what jewspeak is, by the way, is also jewspeak. Damn dirty jewspeakin’ Injun! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/117 "2002-10-19T21:13:07Z")
Me have many sarcastic word for white man, like “Welcome to India”. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/118 "2002-10-19T21:13:49Z")
The number one rule of jewspeak is that you don’t talk about jewspeak! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/119 "2002-10-19T21:17:19Z")
> [@](#): > > I trust and respect you, and so I wish you would explain that one to me. How can it be that there exist a minorities based on race if race itself doesn’t exist? Well, we first need to distinguish between race as a biological classification and race as a cultural construct. Increasingly, biologists are coming to the conclusion that race as a tool of classification is useless. As Dr. Alan R. Templeton, a biology professor at Washington University, has [found](http://www.crystalinks.com/biorace.html) > [@](#): > > Among Templeton’s conclusions: there is more genetic similarity between Europeans and sub-Saharan Africans and between Europeans and Melanesians, inhabitants of islands northeast of Australia, than there is between Africans and Melanesians. Yet, sub-Saharan Africans and Melanesians share dark skin, hair texture and cranial-facial features, traits commonly used to classify people into races. According to Templeton, this example shows that “racial traits” are grossly incompatible with overall genetic differences between human populations. > > “The pattern of overall genetic differences instead tells us that genetic lineages rapidly spread out to all of humanity, indicating that human populations have always had a degree of genetic contact with one another, and thus historically don’t show any distinct evolutionary lineages within humanity,” Templeton says. “Rather, all of humanity is a single long-term evolutionary lineage.” Australian aborigines share many physical traits with sub-Saharan Africans–big lips, flat noses, dark skins–but the two populations have little genetic similarity. Genetically, a Nigerian is closer to someone from London than he is to someone from Didjabringabeeralong (a joke I picked up from the Aussies). However, race is a powerful cultural and political force in our society. We tend to group people based on appearance and treat them accordingly. Even though an immigrant from South Korea and another from Thailand may speak different languages and come from different cultures, in America they get lumped together as Asians. So, in time, their children may become thoroughly American, yet will join an Asian-American student group in college because that is how America has socialized them to see themselves. And I can do Jewspeak, too: _Schema Yisroel, Adonai elohenu, Adonai echod!_ (Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is One!) ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 19, 2002, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509/120 "2002-10-19T21:24:26Z")
**gobear** -“hairy back culture”…LOL!!! 😛 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-oppose-a-policy-of-automatically-banning-the-white-nationalists/132509.md?page=7)