# I or me, in this instance? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [October 4, 2011, 2:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-or-me-in-this-instance/598547 "2011-10-04T14:05:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-or-me-in-this-instance/598547/41 "2011-10-04T16:46:21Z")
Since this apparently is a business letter, I think the only acceptable pronoun is “myself” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Gary\_Robson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gary_robson/32/3448_2.png) [@Gary\_Robson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gary_Robson)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 4:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-or-me-in-this-instance/598547/42 "2011-10-04T16:47:43Z")
> [@MsWhatsit](#): > > I think we all just got punked. For those who are still confused, the original question was: > [@](#): > > For example: > > John Lastname (title); Mary Lastname (title); Suzie Lastname (title), and I (title) were in attendance. > > Or should it be: > > John Lastname (title); Mary Lastname (title); Suzie Lastname (title), and me (title) were in attendance. A couple of minutes later, it was edited to read: > [@](#): > > For example: > > The members of the committee were John Lastname (title); Mary Lastname (title); Suzie Lastname (title), and I (title), Chair of the committee. > > Or should it be: > > The members of the committee were John Lastname (title); Mary Lastname (title); Suzie Lastname (title), and me (title), Chair of the committee. Some people were responding to the original question, and some to the revised question. Now do you see why we don’t have a one-hour edit window? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-or-me-in-this-instance/598547/43 "2011-10-04T17:10:24Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > No it’s not. Some people may use that very colloquially, but generally people do not accept that as proper, not even what you call the “AA community” to which I belong, for the record. Well, me wishes you a speedy recovery. Remember, as long as you stay sober today… ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-or-me-in-this-instance/598547/44 "2011-10-04T17:52:00Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > Formal grammar requires that the complement be in subjective case (“It is I”); however, it is very common for people to use the objective case (“It’s me”) in these kinds of constructions. > [@pulykamell](#): > > I concur with the above and posters who say traditionally, the complement should be in the subjective/nominative case. So “I” is correct. However, the objective case is often used in spoken English. (I mean, have you ever heard someone exclaim, “Look, over there! It’s she!” instead of “it’s her”?) > [@pulykamell](#): > > “Predicate nominative” is the term you want to search for. Most people do not talk this way, and I think the objective case will eventually be fully accepted even by the more stubborn of the prescriptivists. But the idea is that what follows the linking verb is not an object, but rather the complement/equivalent of the subject, so it should remain in the subjective/nominative case. It certainly makes logical sense, but language need not be logical. > [@Chronos](#): > > The real rules of grammar are the ones that people actually follow. If it’s something that people _used_ to follow, then it’s something that was a rule of grammar, but isn’t any more. > > The predicate nominative is a bit of a tricky one, in that both usages are still not uncommon. I would advise to use the old rule in a more formal situation, or the new rule in a less formal one. Or, if you work for a newspaper or the like, to go with what their style guide says. These are accurate. Use of the objective pronouns in cases where the subjectie is called for by precise application of the rules but disjunctive from the subject is a growing common usage. It is not “incorrect”; it is common in informal speech. And it is _literally_ "the Queen’s English: Elizsabeth II is on record as using it publicly in informal situations as far back as 1960. ---
**Author:** ![Autolycus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/22d042/32.png) [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-or-me-in-this-instance/598547/45 "2011-10-06T01:07:44Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > Well, me wishes you a speedy recovery. Incorrect. It should read ‘I be wishin’ you a speedy recovery.’ ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-or-me-in-this-instance/598547/46 "2011-10-06T02:15:34Z")
Gahhh, grammar. Seriously, I learned this crap in grades 7 and 8… There are 3 types of verbs - transitive, intransitive, and “I forget what” which google tells me is a “linking” verb. The best example of a linking verb is … “is” (technically, “to be”) Transitive verbs transfer action from the subject to the object. “Sam hit the ball”. Intransitive verbs do not transfer action. “He died.” Linking verbs link the subject with a subject complement. [http://www.uottawa.ca/academic/arts/writcent/hypergrammar/link.html#linking%20verb](http://www.uottawa.ca/academic/arts/writcent/hypergrammar/link.html#linking%20verb) > [@](#): > > A linking verb connects a subject to a subject complement which identifies or describes the subject, as in the following sentences: > > The play is Waiting for Godot. > In this sentence, the linking verb “is” links the noun phrase “the play” to the identifying phrase “Waiting for Godot,” which is called a subject complement. Next - pronouns are subject or object (or possessive, or…) Subject - I, you, he she it, we, you, they …oh, yeah, and “who” Object - me, you, him her it, us, you, them …whom So it sounds stilted, but the correct usage is “It is I”. In the case of a linking verb, the subject complement pronoun is subject form. “I hit him” In this case, “I” is the subject of the sentence. “He hit me.” In this case, “me” is object of the verb “to hit” - the receiver of the action. “The ball rolled to me” - here, “me” is object of the preposition “to”, prepositional phrase “to me”. Depending on who you believe it is either an adverb phrase or expresses the indirect object, indirect receiver of the action. The original sentence (OP, punk’d/modified, final form) > [@](#): > > The members of the committee were John Lastname (title); Mary Lastname (title); Suzie Lastname (title), and I (title), Chair of the committee In its stripped form as some were trying to do, it is > [@](#): > > The member [was] I. Again, sounds stilted and so last 2 centries ago, but grammatically correct. Remember that English also has a lot of “understood” words in colloquial use, and this particaluar I/me split is a common one. “It was me jumping the fence.” Really should be “It was I [who was] jumping the fence” Geesh, I had to do endless grammar parsing of sentences - I always suspect that’s what gave me the tolerance for computer languages. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-or-me-in-this-instance/598547/47 "2011-10-06T02:36:28Z")
MD: 1. Copulative verbs equate subject and predicate complement (not object). High formal writing still calls for a subjective (nominative) form after a copulative verb, but modern usage, especially informal speech, has grown more and more accepting of the objective forms. ---
**Author:** ![Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maggie_the_Ocelot)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-or-me-in-this-instance/598547/48 "2011-10-06T02:43:32Z")
Heh. Copulative verbs. Heh. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-or-me-in-this-instance/598547/49 "2011-10-06T03:06:00Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > MD: 1. Copulative verbs equate subject and predicate complement (not object). High formal writing still calls for a subjective (nominative) form after a copulative verb, but modern usage, especially informal speech, has grown more and more accepting of the objective forms. > [@Maggie\_the\_Ocelot](#): > > Heh. Copulative verbs. Heh. Aha. That’s the word I could not remember. Thanks! Heh. 😃 “More accepting” does not mean “grammatically correct”. It just means the grammar nazis have moved on to someone else’s case. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-or-me-in-this-instance/598547/50 "2011-10-06T08:38:32Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > No it’s not. Some people may use that very colloquially, but generally people do not accept that as proper, not even what you call the “AA community” to which I belong, for the record. I’ve often wondered why AAVE is so highly regarded by white people, yet nearly invariably considered incorrect (or at least heavily informal) by Black people. I’d think it was an attempt to avoid the semblance of racism, but it seems to happen to the accent or culture of any sublanguage. Those who don’t speak it respect it much more than people who do. All I can come up with is that, for those who don’t speak it, it’s different and therefore interesting. I, on the other hand, do not mourn the loss of the inability to pronounce _sit_ and _set_ differently. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-or-me-in-this-instance/598547/51 "2011-10-06T13:25:54Z")
Aye aye! I am endlessly irritated by white people who may have taken a sociology class at UC Santa Barbara once, or perhaps read somewhere, or possibly overheard in a conversation in a cafe, that black people “talk different” and have gone to great lengths to hold something they call “African American English Vernacular” on a pedastal, and have taken to lecturing everyone else who simply disregards “AAVE” as improper English. Get out of here with that nonsense. I know that you had another conversation with another white person at UCSB, bound by your agreement as pretentious white people to worship “AAVE,” about how “fascinating” it is that we have our own special language with its own conventions that we all acknowledge as proper or correct, but that’s simply not true. Sure, there are some (improper) language constructions frequently employed in American black slang, but these are understood to be colloquialisms, and black people as a group do not actually think of this as being correct. It’s even funnier when the finger-wagging is by a white person _toward a black person_. What’s next? You going to tell me what I ate for breakfast? Please take your poorly-hidden white guilt elsewhere. It’s asinine. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-or-me-in-this-instance/598547/52 "2011-10-06T13:46:43Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I’ve often wondered why AAVE is so highly regarded by white people I wonder where you might have gotten this idea. Most white people have very negative views about it, and it generally goes hand-in-hand with negative views about black people in general. To the extent that some black people also have negative views about it, it’s no doubt closely connected with the negative views of _white_ people who may tend to discriminate against people who use that particular variety of English. And I don’t think anyone in this thread has expressed any “high regard” for it either. Those who know anything about linguistics know that black American vernacular is merely a dialect or variety of English like any other. In linguistic/scientific terms, there is no reason to give it either high or low regard. In sociological terms, it is the vernacular of a particular social group, like any other dialect. In socio-political terms, it may acquire high or low regard from people because of associations with non-linguistic societal characteristics (such as race or class or politics), but none of this is inherent in the dialect itself. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-or-me-in-this-instance/598547/53 "2011-10-06T13:49:27Z")
Post 38 went all organic coffee, North Face jacket wearing, Cultural Studies major, [stuffwhitepeoplelike.com](http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com) on us. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [October 6, 2011, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-or-me-in-this-instance/598547/54 "2011-10-06T16:51:01Z")
Of course, if we wait long enough, incorrect grammar or usage becomes correct - just look at english constructs like “ain’t”. Ain’t that the truth, y’all? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-or-me-in-this-instance/598547.md?page=2)