# I owe a California Use Tax? WTF?!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 17, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063 "2010-07-17T21:57:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 2:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/21 "2010-07-18T02:14:51Z")
> [@JayRx1981](#): > > Ummm, it’s not just California that does this. Ohio requires\* you to pay a use tax as well on items purchased from online retailers. There’s an area on your Ohio Tax return form where you are supposed to report it. > > \*By requires, it is codified in the tax code that you are required to do this, but it is purely self-reported so my understanding is that most people don’t do so. I report my use tax in Ohio. Or at least a rough approximation, since I don’t actually keep exact track of everything I buy online in a year. Well, I did for last year, I only bought like 3 things. Lack of money makes it much easier to keep track of such.😛 ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/22 "2010-07-18T05:19:58Z")
> [@MD12](#): > > Funny you should mention “all these taxes” when we have Prop 13 on the books which is keeping property taxes artificially low, depriving local and state government of billions of dollars in funding. How is an artificially low tax defined? ---
**Author:** ![Erdosain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/erdosain/32/7284_2.png) [@Erdosain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Erdosain)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/23 "2010-07-18T06:55:43Z")
> [@yoyodyne](#): > > How is an artificially low tax defined? Plus, property taxes have to be analyzed in conjunction with state and local income taxes and state and local sales taxes. Often the discrepancy between states’ rates of property tax depends on the autonomy of their local governments. That being said, I have no idea if CA has artificially low property taxes or whether they compensate for this with higher income and sales tax. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 9:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/24 "2010-07-18T09:39:05Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > All the OP tells us that that you don’t have a fucking clue. _Of course_ he doesn’t have a clue! He as much as says so in the OP. Does gratuitously acting like a dick make you feel like a big man? Does it fill some sort of void in your life? Is it transference based on how you’d like to behave to your students but can’t? Is it an outlet for the frustration you feel over having to be you? What? The rest of your post was very good. So I’d really like to know what it is about you that requires you to feel compelled to act like an utter ass as a prerequisite to offering genuinely helpful information. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/25 "2010-07-18T15:40:56Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > A bunch of states have recently been trying to work out a way to collect more of the taxes owed on internet purchases, and supporters of the move include brick-and-mortar stores who argue, quite reasonably, that the ability of online retailers to sell without charging sales tax effectively undercuts local retailers and makes it harder for them to do business. The local retailers should direct their complaints at the state which taxes them on every business transaction they make. Several states somehow keep paved roads without a sales or use tax. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/26 "2010-07-18T15:42:55Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > _Of course_ he doesn’t have a clue! He as much as says so in the OP. And if he had posted his thread in GQ, something like, “Hey, i got this letter from the California State Government about use tax, which is something i had never heard of. What is it?”, i would have responded with the appropriate tone. But he marched into the Pit, ranting and raving about something that has been law for decades, and calling California “the nuttiest fucking state,” despite the fact that this tax is in no way unusual among US states. And because it’s the Pit, i decided to point out what an ignoramus he is. Which would put him in perfect company with a fucking stupid dickwad like you. You’re welcome. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/27 "2010-07-18T15:47:46Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > The local retailers should direct their complaints at the state which taxes them on every business transaction they make. Several states somehow keep paved roads without a sales or use tax. Yeah, five whole states. I’m not especially interested in having a big debate over whether sales/use taxes are the best way to raise government revenue. But the fact is that they exist in the vast majority of US states, and when they are not collected on purchases from outside the state, it puts in-state retailers at a competitive disadvantage. Not only that, but the law in most (all?) of those states _requires_ that such taxes be paid on out-of-state purchases, so it’s not unreasonable for states to seek a mechanism to ensure this happens. Not really very complicated, is it? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/28 "2010-07-18T15:58:12Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > The rest of your post was very good. So I’d really like to know what it is about you that requires you to feel compelled to act like an utter ass as a prerequisite to offering genuinely helpful information. Its the internet dick tax. And Mhendo is going to collect damit! ---
**Author:** ![yoyodyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/a9a28c/32.png) [@yoyodyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yoyodyne)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/29 "2010-07-18T17:30:26Z")
> [@Erdosain](#): > > Plus, property taxes have to be analyzed in conjunction with state and local income taxes and state and local sales taxes. Often the discrepancy between states’ rates of property tax depends on the autonomy of their local governments. That being said, I have no idea if CA has artificially low property taxes or whether they compensate for this with higher income and sales tax. One could also look at it as government spending being artificially high. ---
**Author:** ![gravitycrash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/977dab/32.png) [@gravitycrash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gravitycrash)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/30 "2010-07-18T17:53:01Z")
> [@yoyodyne](#): > > One could also look at it as government spending being artificially high. Uh oh, now you’ve done it. Prepare for an onslaught of abuse. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/31 "2010-07-18T19:47:13Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > And if he had posted his thread in GQ, something like, “Hey, i got this letter from the California State Government about use tax, which is something i had never heard of. What is it?”, i would have responded with the appropriate tone. > > But he marched into the Pit, ranting and raving about something that has been law for decades, and calling California “the nuttiest fucking state,” despite the fact that this tax is in no way unusual among US states. > > And because it’s the Pit, i decided to point out what an ignoramus he is. Just because you can do something it doesn’t necessarily mean that you should. If you’d have made that post sans the first line you’d have come across as an intelligent, knowledgeable, helpful guy. Instead you chose to preface that with a line that [del]makes you look like[/del] reveals you to be the asshole that you know you are (and which you’ve rather proudly laid claim to in the past yourself). So I’m wondering why that is. The simple fact that we’re in the Pit obviously isn’t a sufficient reason since all sorts of people post here without acting like an asshole as a preface to answering an innocuous question, and since you often behave in an insulting manner in the board’s other forums as well, although without stepping over the line that would bring a warning. You seem to feel that the board’s motto should be **“Insulting ignorance since…”** rather than fighting it, and I’m genuinely curious to know why. Have you always been an asspipe? Does it go back as far as you can remember? Or is it the result of a childhood social trauma that you’ve never been able to forget? Or a high-school or college-age one? What? Inquiring minds want to know. (You may place your inevitable retaliatory insult toward my own mind here.) ---
**Author:** ![mischievous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mischievous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mischievous)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/32 "2010-07-18T19:51:07Z")
IIRC, when I lived in New York, they basically had a “close enough” version of the use tax - each year, you could pay $30 tax on out-of-state purchases, or you could document your real liability. Naturally, most people just paid the $30, which I thought was entirely reasonable. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/33 "2010-07-18T21:34:01Z")
[hijack] **V.bis** , good to see you’re still around! Still showering with dishwashing soap? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/34 "2010-07-18T21:54:32Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > …and I’m genuinely curious to know why. No you’re not. You’ve made clear on this board, hundreds of times, that you’re not really curious about anything, and that you are committed only to a hide-bound adherence to a level of ignorance and parochialism supported by your own narrow experiences. I’ve told you before that i’m not going to engage with you as if you were an honest and reasonable person, because you’re not. For that reason, i have no interest in responding to your “genuinely curious” inquiry. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/35 "2010-07-18T22:16:55Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > No you’re not. > > You’ve made clear on this board, hundreds of times, that you’re not really curious about anything, and that you are committed only to a hide-bound adherence to a level of ignorance and parochialism supported by your own narrow experiences. > > I’ve told you before that i’m not going to engage with you as if you were an honest and reasonable person, because you’re not. For that reason, i have no interest in responding to your “genuinely curious” inquiry. Oh, but I am. I honestly cannot fathom what could cause a person to adopt the belief, as you apparently have, that all things being equal it’s best to act like an asshole. But since you alleged believe that I’m not curious about it myself, perhaps you’d be willling to concede that there are other posters who might be curious about it as well. The way things stand now, it looks like more like you’re using my disdain for purposeless cite contests as an excuse to avoid answering a valid question that I’m sure many of are curious about. I know that I don’t know of any other poster who is so quick to act like a jerk right out of the starting gate as you are, and I’m sure other people have noticed it and wondered about it too. So, come on. Be a sport, eh? Tell us all why you’re such an asshole? Pretty please with sugar on top? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/36 "2010-07-18T23:16:52Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So, come on. Be a sport, eh? Tell us all why you’re such an asshole? Pretty please with sugar on top? I can tell you why I’m an asshole. It’s because you are wearing your asshole-colored glasses, and all liberals look that way to you. ---
**Author:** ![JeffB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jeffb/32/188_2.png) [@JeffB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JeffB)\ **Post date:** [July 18, 2010, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/37 "2010-07-18T23:33:03Z")
> [@mischievous](#): > > IIRC, when I lived in New York, they basically had a “close enough” version of the use tax - each year, you could pay $30 tax on out-of-state purchases, or you could document your real liability. Naturally, most people just paid the $30, which I thought was entirely reasonable. NY does require a payment of estimated use tax if you don’t calculate actual, though it’s a graduated, income-based amount. I believe the maximum is $200 (assuming you haven’t made any purchases of $1,000 or more). ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/38 "2010-07-19T01:36:43Z")
The thing I’m trying to work out is why you’re required to pay a (local) sales tax on something purchased in _another_ state, and upon which you have (presumably) already paid a sales tax? I understand that with The Internet there’s a likelihood no sales tax has been paid at all, but even so… couldn’t it be argued that the sale took place in the state where the company is headquartered, or something like that? You’d think the solution would be a national, consistent GST- but I can already hear the cries of the pitchfork and burning torch salesmen should anyone important actually, seriously suggest such a thing be implemented… ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/39 "2010-07-19T01:45:33Z")
> [@mischievous](#): > > IIRC, when I lived in New York, they basically had a “close enough” version of the use tax - each year, you could pay $30 tax on out-of-state purchases, or you could document your real liability. Naturally, most people just paid the $30, which I thought was entirely reasonable. That sounds like a really good idea. ---
**Author:** ![UltraVires](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecccb3/32.png) [@UltraVires](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UltraVires)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/40 "2010-07-19T01:48:47Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Yeah, five whole states. And those five get the job done. Let’s see how they do it before we decide that states MUST tax out of state purchases. > [@mhendo](#): > > I’m not especially interested in having a big debate over whether sales/use taxes are the best way to raise government revenue. But the fact is that they exist in the vast majority of US states, and when they are not collected on purchases from outside the state, it puts in-state retailers at a competitive disadvantage. Here we have a relatively new technology which has revolutionized the way people shop. Why not take a step back and see if there is a new way to best capitalize on this instead of trudging back to the pony express ways of taxing commerce so states can keep spending the way they like? > [@mhendo](#): > > Not only that, but the law in most (all?) of those states _requires_ that such taxes be paid on out-of-state purchases, so it’s not unreasonable for states to seek a mechanism to ensure this happens. Not really very complicated, is it? It seems extra-jurisdictional to me. The constitution leaves the regulation of interstate commerce to the federal government. For all of the ridiculous things that the feds have used the interstate commerce nexus to allow, here we have an obvious situation. If I sit at my computer in Florida and buy a product that sits in California, that is certainly, by definition, interstate commerce, and IMHO is something that is beyond the power of any state to interfere with. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063.md?page=3)