# I owe a California Use Tax? WTF?!!! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 17, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063 "2010-07-17T21:57:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/41 "2010-07-19T01:56:22Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > And if he had posted his thread in GQ, something like, “Hey, i got this letter from the California State Government about use tax, which is something i had never heard of. What is it?”, i would have responded with the appropriate tone. > > But he marched into the Pit, ranting and raving about something that has been law for decades, and calling California “the nuttiest fucking state,” despite the fact that this tax is in no way unusual among US states. > > And because it’s the Pit, i decided to point out what an ignoramus he is. Which would put him in perfect company with a fucking stupid dickwad like you. > > You’re welcome. Well, in essence, this really was a serious question about something I had not heard about. For all I know me accountant has been paying this. I’m going to ask him tomorrow. But, yes, I did ask the question in the Pit, and yes, I did rant a little. Partially because I was surprised by it and partially because I’m sick and tired of paying as much tax as I do. So, I do not begrudge you spewing some shit my way. Especially since you offered some insight in the process. I guess the one thing I don’t get is why, after I posted a question and openly _admitted_ I knew NOTHING about this (i.e. that my ignorance on this topic was, on a scale of 1 - 10, an 110, why you felt the need to point to the very ignorance I announced with fireworks in the OP. Like I said, I don’t mind your insulting me in the pit, it just seem odd that you would think that the thing I already admitted to would be so cutting. ::shrug:: ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/42 "2010-07-19T02:48:39Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > 😉 Nicely done. (Credit where credit is due.) > > But don’t fret. I won’t be leaving you any time soon. Cheers! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/43 "2010-07-19T03:15:55Z")
> [@jtgain](#): > > And those five get the job done. Let’s see how they do it before we decide that states MUST tax out of state purchases. Let’s do! Alaska = oil royalties galore plus being the 3rd highest state for federal funds received per dollar of federal tax paid (1.84 received per 1.00 submitted to federal coffers) Delaware = Franchise taxes on businesses (most fortune 500 companies are HQed there) accounts for 1/5 of state revenue. They also have like 8 people in the entire state. Montana = Ranked #11 in federal dollars received per dollar given. 7% income tax for every dollar above 17000 or so. Moderate, but still appreciable, Oil & Gas revenues. New Hampshire = Let’s pretend they have no sales tax, even though there’s 9% tax on food. 1.5% transfer tax on real estate. 4th highest rate of property tax by % value in the US. Oregon = the only one that I can’t really find any offsetting, obvious reason for being able to afford no sales tax. this is an incomplete analysis, but as you can see, the states that survive with no state income tax are taxing their citizens heavily in other areas, are extremely small in population (4 of the 5 are in the bottom 20th percentile in terms of population) so there isn’t a large expenditure-side pressure, or have large sources of natural resource revenue. there’s one true outlier in Oregon. also, states don’t impose use tax because they love tax grabs - their domestic businesses are at serious competitive disadvantages if use tax doesn’t exist. it’s not just a revenue thing, it’s a fostering in-state business thing. how do you think Mom & Pop’s Electronics MegaStore, Inc. of Methuen, MA likes it when all of his customers can drive 2 minutes into NH and get a 6.25% discount on goods in perpetuity? ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/44 "2010-07-19T03:19:56Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > The thing I’m trying to work out is why you’re required to pay a (local) sales tax on something purchased in _another_ state, and upon which you have (presumably) already paid a sales tax? Because States don’t answer to other States. As has been explained before, you get a credit for the tax you paid in the other state. If you have. If you haven’t, you’ll owe the whole hog for your tax that you didn’t have to pay by buying out of state. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/45 "2010-07-19T03:38:06Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![thelurkinghorror](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7c8e57/32.png) [@thelurkinghorror](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelurkinghorror)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/46 "2010-07-19T04:28:56Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Well, in essence, this really was a serious question about something I had not heard about. For all I know me accountant has been paying this. I’m going to ask him tomorrow. But, yes, I did ask the question in the Pit, and yes, I did rant a little. Partially because I was surprised by it and partially because I’m sick and tired of paying as much tax as I do. So, I do not begrudge you spewing some shit my way. Especially since you offered some insight in the process. I almost guarantee your accountant is making you pay jack shit. When I worked as a tax preparer in CA it wasn’t something they even suggested we ask, and accountants I know don’t ask. Besides, how would he know how much you should’ve paid at Amazon without asking. I am surprised in this thread that people actually report it, just as I am by your OP and the letter. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 4:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/47 "2010-07-19T04:58:03Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > Oregon = the only one that I can’t really find any offsetting, obvious reason for being able to afford no sales tax. ISTR a couple of years ago hearing about a federal program that had the U.S. govt. making some sizeable annual contributions to Oregon’s general fund, to make up for revenues lost due to logging restrictions within the state. So, before that program, royalties from the timber industry? And when the program sunsets, – fiscal apocalypse? WAG. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/48 "2010-07-19T05:18:17Z")
> [@thelurkinghorror](#): > > I almost guarantee your accountant is making you pay jack shit. When I worked as a tax preparer in CA it wasn’t something they even suggested we ask, and accountants I know don’t ask. Besides, how would he know how much you should’ve paid at Amazon without asking. I am surprised in this thread that people actually report it, just as I am by your OP and the letter. MY CPA has an entry for this on my tax organizer every year. I always put an entry there. As far as why people report it, there is an old saying in California “You can fuck with the IRS, but do not fuck with the franchise tax board. Those guys are evil.” And I first heard that long before prop 13, back when the state had money. Now that they are broke, FTB is EVIL. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/49 "2010-07-19T05:42:06Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I’m sure other people have noticed it and wondered about it too. If they’re curious (which i kind of doubt) they are welcome to ask. If they’re not raging, dishonest assholes i might favor them with an answer. You, on the other hand, can take a flying fuck at a rolling donut. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So, come on. Be a sport, eh? Tell us all why you’re such an asshole? Pretty please with sugar on top? Yawn. ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/50 "2010-07-19T05:53:48Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > Oregon = the only one that I can’t really find any offsetting, obvious reason for being able to afford no sales tax. Relatively small population needing services, a very high business personal property tax in many counties, a midrange personal income tax, and relatively high property taxes. Plus, many services get bumped to counties, which have their own revenue generation capabilities. Compare and contrast with Washington state, which is the opposite: high sales tax, no personal income tax, and very tight state control. But mostly it’s that Oregon’s legislative system makes it very, very hard to create or raise taxes – you basically need the population to agree to tax themselves more on the ballot. It’s unfortunate, really, since the population of the state increases by a third or so in the summer due to tourists – a sales tax would allow said tourists to pay the residents taxes for them. Oregon has been running at a level of services many other states would find inadequate for years (and ranks very low on state tax burden). However, I’ve never heard as much whining about taxes as I did when I lived there – there’s sort of a cultural level of resistance to taxation there that I’ve never seen elsewhere. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 6:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/51 "2010-07-19T06:04:15Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > If they’re curious (which i kind of doubt) they are welcome to ask. If they’re not raging, dishonest assholes i might favor them with an answer. You, on the other hand, can take a flying fuck at a rolling donut. _Well!_ That’s certainly not very sporting of you I must say! One can only wonder about your poor students. Student: [raises hand] Uh, Mr. **mhendo** , may I ask a question? **mhendo** : Fuck no! There’s plenty of info out there already. You should know the answer by now. Dumbass! Student: Oh, okay. Nevermind, I guess. **mhendo** : [thinks to self] I can’t believe people are so fucking _stupid_! :smack: **SA** : :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 8:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/52 "2010-07-19T08:45:47Z")
> [@Rumor\_Watkins](#): > > Because States don’t answer to other States. As has been explained before, you get a credit for the tax you paid in the other state. If you have. If you haven’t, you’ll owe the whole hog for your tax that you didn’t have to pay by buying out of state. I still find it interesting- I mean, if you live in Washington State and go and visit Canada for the day, are you expected to cough up the sales taxes on the stuff you brought in Canada, duty free concession allowances notwithstanding? I really don’t see why buying stuff in another state should be any different. You didn’t buy it in your home state, so you shouldn’t be paying “local” taxes on it. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 9:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/53 "2010-07-19T09:26:58Z")
> [@mischievous](#): > > IIRC, when I lived in New York, they basically had a “close enough” version of the use tax - each year, you could pay $30 tax on out-of-state purchases, or you could document your real liability. Naturally, most people just paid the $30, which I thought was entirely reasonable. Wait, isn’t that the rule from Monopoly? ---
**Author:** ![Doughbag](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Doughbag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Doughbag)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/54 "2010-07-19T10:10:49Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I still find it interesting- I mean, if you live in Washington State and go and visit Canada for the day, are you expected to cough up the sales taxes on the stuff you brought in Canada, duty free concession allowances notwithstanding? > > I really don’t see why buying stuff in another state should be any different. You didn’t buy it in your home state, so you shouldn’t be paying “local” taxes on it. Coming from Canada - You are actually importing goods, so technically you are required to pay an import tax. This happens to some people when they get off the plane (here in Ireland), after a shopping trip in New York, depending on the mood (I guess) of the custom officers. As an EU citizen, purchasing online outside the EU, the parcel usually/sometimes gets stopped by custom. They contact me in writing and ask for an invoice for the incoming goods, which I then have to provide and I get taxed according to this invoice. The tax is in Ireland 21%, meaning that I have to pay 21% Tax whether I paid any tax in the purchasing country or not. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 11:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/55 "2010-07-19T11:58:08Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > I still find it interesting- I mean, if you live in Washington State and go and visit Canada for the day, are you expected to cough up the sales taxes on the stuff you brought in Canada, duty free concession allowances notwithstanding? > > I really don’t see why buying stuff in another state should be any different. You didn’t buy it in your home state, so you shouldn’t be paying “local” taxes on it. You do technically owe use tax on purchases made in Canada. This time around, you don’t even get the offsetting credit. Duty-free has to do with Federal excise taxes and duties - has nothing to do with State taxation. States have the right to tax whatever they want within their state (with certain exceptions for goods passing through their State in interstate commerce). The logical reason for the use tax has been repeatedly explained in this thread, and the reasoning for this tax is obvious, not ambiguous, and reasonable. FWIW, I think you’re being purposefully dense (in that Oceanic “golly gee, what you Americans do is _so_ incomprehensible and non-sensical to me!” moralizing way that seems to characterize every comment that every Kiwi or Kangaroo that posts on this board makes in relation to America). If not, apologies. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 12:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/56 "2010-07-19T12:03:17Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > As far as why people report it, there is an old saying in California “You can fuck with the IRS, but do not fuck with the franchise tax board. Those guys are evil.” Oh god, are you pushing this meme again? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/57 "2010-07-19T16:35:46Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > A bunch of states have recently been trying to work out a way to collect more of the taxes owed on internet purchases, and supporters of the move include brick-and-mortar stores who argue, quite reasonably, that the ability of online retailers to sell without charging sales tax effectively undercuts local retailers and makes it harder for them to do business. I don’t buy the notion that this is at all “reasonable”. Sorry, brick-and-mortar stores – you use a bunch of local services that online retailers physically located in some other state don’t, so it’s perfectly fair that you specifically get to pay for them. ---
**Author:** ![Rumor\_Watkins](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@Rumor\_Watkins](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rumor_Watkins)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/58 "2010-07-19T16:37:47Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > I don’t buy the notion that this is at all “reasonable”. Sorry, brick-and-mortar stores – you use a bunch of local services that online retailers physically located in some other state don’t, so it’s perfectly fair that you specifically get to pay for them. The stores don’t pay sales taxes. Customers do, but it’s handled through the business. The taxes that businesses pay for the government services they use are their business taxes (income, occupancy, property, franchise, etc.) ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/59 "2010-07-19T16:54:54Z")
> [@Steve\_MB](#): > > I don’t buy the notion that this is at all “reasonable”. Sorry, brick-and-mortar stores – you use a bunch of local services that online retailers physically located in some other state don’t, so it’s perfectly fair that you specifically get to pay for them. What **Rumor\_Watkins** said. The taxes we’re talking about here are taxes paid by the consumers, not by the retailers. And the states are trying to go after this money precisely _because_ the people who avoid the taxes by purchasing from out-of-state retailers do, in fact, live in places where they are meant to be paying tax on their purchases. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063/60 "2010-07-19T16:56:13Z")
I must admit, it is somewhat odd that a state would charge both income _and_ sales tax. [QUOTE=Rumor Watkins] FWIW, I think you’re being purposefully dense (in that Oceanic “golly gee, what you Americans do is _so_ incomprehensible and non-sensical to me!” moralizing way that seems to characterize every comment that every Kiwi or Kangaroo that posts on this board makes in relation to America). If not, apologies. [/QUOTE] You do know that Australia _also_ has a federal system of government, yes? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-owe-a-california-use-tax-wtf/547063.md?page=4)