# "I Own Me" - Libertarian Rap **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 17, 2009, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125 "2009-10-17T05:50:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/1 "2009-10-17T05:50:36Z")
I debated whether this should go in Cafe Society or here, but ultimately I think it’s a political statement and worthy of debate. So I followed a link from _Reason_ magazine to a youtube video of a libertarian rap song. I figured it would be really lame. But surprisingly, it’s very good. Check it out: [I Own Me.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eMAwb5hPyqM&feature=player_embedded#) I guess the question is this: Could music like this make a political difference? Teenagers are supposed to rebel against authority, and the government is asserting a fair bit of authority these days. Could this be a cultural moment that creates a generation of people who are more libertarian than the previous couple? Watching this video, I just had a sense that a lot of its themes are going to strike a chord with today’s disillusioned youth. Here’s another one supporting [Ron Paul](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SK3cH061iz4&feature=related). And apparently a Libertarian Professor from GMU has hired a bunch of rappers to make a new video. ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/2 "2009-10-17T06:42:07Z")
Do you really think you’re a good judge of the quality of a rap song? To answer your question, no. And no. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/3 "2009-10-17T09:32:04Z")
What makes you think I’m not? ---
**Author:** ![Terraplane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/74df32/32.png) [@Terraplane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terraplane)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 9:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/4 "2009-10-17T09:34:57Z")
Because that was terrible. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/5 "2009-10-17T09:43:44Z")
Would you like to explain why? ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 9:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/6 "2009-10-17T09:44:03Z")
Libertarian, eh? “I’m a slave” would have been a better title; or maybe “I have no effectual governmental representation, therefore I have no voice/no power/no environment/no options/no health care/no safety/no education/etc,” but then again I’d be a horrible rapper. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/7 "2009-10-17T11:48:38Z")
Gee, Sam … gonna ask the SDMB to review a GOP campaign ad next? :dubious: 90% of the crowd here is not gonna look past the underlying politics and seriously address the rap itself. And you know this (or you wouldn’t have put it in GD). And FWIW, I was not especially impressed, and I’m already a libertarian. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 12:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/8 "2009-10-17T12:13:35Z")
My opinion? Let’s see. Let’s take one of my least favorite forms of music and combine it with one of my least favorite political positions. Nah, I think I’ll skip listening. I wouldn’t even listen to liberal atheist rap, if there is such a thing. As for any future effects; plenty of young people become infatuated with variations on libertarianism, anarchy, and so forth. Then they generally grow up. They figure out that they will be the ones stomped on, not the ones doing the stomping. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/9 "2009-10-17T12:57:20Z")
So what is anti-libertarian about this: **maxed out, deep in-debted from the easy credit/** **that the fed imbedded then they betted it all be copacetic/** I thought libertarianism was all about the freedom of two consenting adults to make what ever contract they mutually agreed to without coercion. If a person agrees to easy credit and gets into trouble, how is this anti-libertarian? ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/10 "2009-10-17T13:32:15Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > So what is anti-libertarian about this: > **maxed out, deep in-debted from the easy credit/** > **that the fed imbedded then they betted it all be copacetic/** > > I thought libertarianism was all about the freedom of two consenting adults to make what ever contract they mutually agreed to without coercion. If a person agrees to easy credit and gets into trouble, how is this anti-libertarian? Not when other players are playing with government backed funds. The easy credit is provided by the government, not “consenting adults”. If the government is counted as just another market participant, then the whole concept of libertarianism gets defined away. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/11 "2009-10-17T13:41:21Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > Not when other players are playing with government backed funds. The easy credit is provided by the government, not “consenting adults”. If the government is counted as just another market participant, then the whole concept of libertarianism gets defined away. But even if the government is one party to a loan, no one is forcing the other party to accept those terms. Libertarians should not whine about the freedom to make a bad choice. ---
**Author:** ![DoctorJ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doctorj/32/2904_2.png) [@DoctorJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DoctorJ)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/12 "2009-10-17T13:48:31Z")
By the painfully weak standards of right-wing-associated rap, it’s pretty good. His flow is decent, his lyrics have a few clunkers but mostly work, and the production is catchy if dated. It’s no hit, but I’ve heard way worse. I think music can definitely make a difference politically, but only if it’s great music first and political second. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/13 "2009-10-17T15:20:01Z")
I saw about 20% libertarian stuff with the rest a mish-mash of Obama = Socialist, gun freak, etc. wingnuttery. I don’t think the overall message is positive, and I’m a libertarian leaning type. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/14 "2009-10-17T15:22:56Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Nah, I think I’ll skip listening. I wouldn’t even listen to liberal atheist rap, if there is such a thing. Oh, I been kickin’ with Dawkins and Krugman (Krugman!) And now I’m seriously bugged, man. Cause they’re ain’t no God And I find it mighty odd People voting for Republican thugmen (thugmen!) Pelosi in the hizzouse! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/15 "2009-10-17T16:44:36Z")
You just created a new art form-- limerick rap. Let’s hope it doesn’t catch on… ---
**Author:** ![Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/happy_fun_ball/32/17664_2.png) [@Happy\_Fun\_Ball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Happy_Fun_Ball)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 4:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/16 "2009-10-17T16:49:17Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I saw about 20% libertarian stuff with the rest a mish-mash of Obama = Socialist, gun freak, etc. wingnuttery. I don’t think the overall message is positive, and I’m a libertarian leaning type. I agree. The rap was OK, not great but not bad either. About 1/4 of it was libertarian and I liked this message. But the whole Obama=socialist enslaver thing really turned me off. In my mind President Bush was further from a libertarian ideal that President Obama (or at least he wasn’t closer), so if you are going to make these kinds of arguments don’t make them partisan because that just makes me defensive. And to address the OP: Could music make a difference? It’s possible and it has happened before, but it is rare, transitory and marginal (say swinging a point or three in a single election). Could this be a cultural moment that creates a generation of people who are more libertarian than the previous couple? No. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/17 "2009-10-17T17:39:27Z")
There is no God and he’s a Commie Why we got to make the State your Mommy! Yo, yo, yo! Shout out to the homos! ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/18 "2009-10-17T17:41:16Z")
[Beware the Believers](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFXIALf9zDA) ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/19 "2009-10-17T17:45:30Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > I agree. The rap was OK, not great but not bad either. About 1/4 of it was libertarian and I liked this message. But the whole Obama=socialist enslaver thing really turned me off. In my mind President Bush was further from a libertarian ideal that President Obama (or at least he wasn’t closer), so if you are going to make these kinds of arguments don’t make them partisan because that just makes me defensive. > > And to address the OP: Could music make a difference? It’s possible and it has happened before, but it is rare, transitory and marginal (say swinging a point or three in a single election). Could this be a cultural moment that creates a generation of people who are more libertarian than the previous couple? No. From years of promoting Raves I can tell you that music makes a huge difference. Obviously it’s no substitute for real institutions, but music can bring people together and elicit particular emotional responses that will be then shared by the mass. The most obvious example we have of this is the 60s music scene. There are still people who quote Alice’s Restaurant like it’s the gospel. ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 17, 2009, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/20 "2009-10-17T18:10:10Z")
The context I put it in was that it’s pretty good _for politically-motivated music_. I expected it to be dreck, and it wasn’t bad. Then I read that there’s a whole trend behind this stuff, where there are many libertarian rap songs either out there or being made, and it got me wondering if this could be an effective strategy. Young people, who are naturally skeptical of authority, are especially receptive to a libertarian message, and this seems targeted right at that group. As a comparison, think about how many people became libertarians in their teens in the 50’s and 60’s from reading Ayn Rand and/or Robert Heinlein. If you run into a libertarian today, I’ll bet the odds are at least 50/50 that they read one or both of those authors when they were young. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125.md?page=2)