# "I Own Me" - Libertarian Rap **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 17, 2009, 5:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125 "2009-10-17T05:50:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/81 "2009-10-20T14:24:05Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > Once, when I was in the third grade or so, I asked my mother for some money so I could go to the neighborhood drug store and buy a candy bar. She told me we didn’t have any money and wouldn’t be able to buy anything until my father got paid some money he was due that weekend. (My father was self-employed and we were often out of money, about to get our electricity cut off, etc.) I had grown tired of hearing that by then and out of frustration and confusion asked my mom why people even needed money anyway? Why doesn’t everybody just go do their job, and then whenever they need something, just go to the store and get it? I can remember her chuckle to this day as she explained to me that things just didn’t work that way, and I would understand when I got older. > > Now it appears to me that this episode illustrates two things: One, that the communistic approach is fundamentally immature and idealistic; and two, that many of this country’s liberals who favor ever-increasing government social programs and control have failed to make the jump where they realize that things just don’t work that way. > > Yet even Raul Castro has come around to realizing that when the government just gives people stuff they have no incentive to work: > > Cuban President Raul Castro has said several times that the ration book costs too much and provides too little. Since taking power from his brother Fidel in February 2008, he has been critical of Cuba’s paternalistic system, saying **“…deep state subsidies don’t give people an incentive to work.”** > > [bolding mine] > > And typically, their system, as with all communist systems, provides only meager provisions for its citizens: > > _“The thick brown ration booklet offers 11.2 million Cubans a diet including rice, salt, legumes, potatoes, bread, eggs, sugar and some meat. Many complain it only provides 10 to 15 days of food and that quotas have gotten stingier over the years.”_ > > [Cite](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/10/11/MNOD1A3OLA.DTL#ixzz0UQlbaZOv) Wow, kind of amazing how a rap song that says what you already think got you to think the thoughts that were already in your head. deep man. _puffs and passes_ ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/82 "2009-10-20T15:28:49Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > So what? Are you incapable of liking a band that espouses a different philosophy than your own? Most of my favorite bands espouse political philosophies I don’t agree with. > > And I think you’re downplaying the message in their music. The album ‘2112’ is dedicated to “The genius of Ayn Rand”. > > The song “Anthem” is a direct retelling of Rand’s short story by the same name. > > “The Trees” is an anti-socialist allegory. > > “Free Will” of course is a direct statement of libertarian/Objectivist philosophy. > > “Red Barchetta” is set in a nanny-state dystopia where sports cars have been regulated away and the main character regularly takes the car out in an act of individualism and rebellion against the state. > > “Tom Sawyer” is a character “whose mind is not for rent to any God or Government.” A pretty succinct statement of Rand’s main beliefs. > > I could go on. Libertarian/Individualist/Objectivist themes were pretty common in Rush’s work all the way through their ‘Signals’ album. I haven’t listened to much of their later work, so I don’t know if those themes continued, but they were certainly visible throughout Rush’s most popular work. And Peart has said, “For a start, the extent of my influence by the writings of Ayn Rand should not be overestimated. I am no one’s disciple.” And Geddy has introduced “Red Barchetta” as a song about a car. The song “Anthem” is not a direct retelling of any story. You must not be familiar with it. Your statement about “The Trees” is correct. Your statement about “Free Will” is not. I don’t know where you’re getting your ideas about the content of these songs. And yeah, if Rush’s lyrics were driven by a hamfisted effort to push a right-wing political philolosphy, I would not be a fan. I just don’t want you to get the idea that you can pretend that Rush’s popularity equates to any endorsement of right-wing philosophy within their lyrics. That’s what’s so what. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/83 "2009-10-20T15:45:57Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The free market is wrong? No, just that lefties can always fold their arms and insist “that’s not funny”. Or engage in the kind of RO we see on a daily basis in the Pit (towards anything not aimed at Bush). > [@](#): > > The personality traits and features that make one conservative do not lend themselves to creativity or humor. Confirmation bias, obviously - if you refuse to accept that anything aimed at the Left is funny, then you can say silly things like this. > [@](#): > > The proof of this is in the pudding of the free market. Oh, absolutely, which is why it is informative to compare Rush Limbaugh and his jokes about Algore with Air America and its jokes about - well, whatever they used to think was funny before they crashed and burned. That explains much of the tendency towards speech codes and legislation aimed at trying to silence talk radio - the left cannot succeed in an un-coerced market to nearly the extent that conservatives can. I hear talk often about how the Daily Show is an equal opportunity mocker, but oddly enough jokes about the lefties never seem to get nearly as much traction on the SDMB as the jokes about the GOP. Funny how your sense of humor breaks down so neatly. It’s almost as if it mattered whose sacred cows are being gored. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/84 "2009-10-20T15:55:32Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > …Air America and its jokes about - well, whatever they used to think was funny before they crashed and burned. .. They did? I coulda swore I was just listening to a Stephanie Miller fart joke, not ten minutes ago! Wow, that was fast! Or maybe “crashed and burned” means something different in **Shodanese** … ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/85 "2009-10-20T17:36:02Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > And Peart has said, “For a start, the extent of my influence by the writings of Ayn Rand should not be overestimated. I am no one’s disciple.” Peart is like a lot of Ayn Rand followers. He WAS a ‘disciple’ when he was young, then he grew up and expanded his views. At the point they were making ‘2112’ the fact that he dedicated the entire album to her ‘genius’ should make it pretty clear where he stood at that time. > [@](#): > > And Geddy has introduced “Red Barchetta” as a song about a car. A car, and a country with a ‘motor law’ that made the car illegal, and the exhilaration of the narrator as he ‘commits his weekly crime’ by flouting the law and expressing his freedom… > [@](#): > > The song “Anthem” is not a direct retelling of any story. You must not be familiar with it. Sorry, I mixed up ‘Anthem’ with the title of Rand’s book. It was the entire 2112 album that revolves around that story. That’s why it was dedicated to Rand. The whole album follows the plot of the book. The “Priests of the Temples of Syrinx” were the World Council of Scholars from Rand’s book, and the protagonist’s music is the equivalent of the invention that Rand’s character presents to the WCS. There’s not much controversy in saying this - this is the accepted interpretation of that album by pretty much every rock critic I’ve read. It’s not exactly subtle. As for whether it had an anti-socialist theme… From the lyrics: _We’ve taken care of everything The words you hear, the songs you sing The pictures that give pleasure to your eyes It’s one for all, all for one We work together, common sons Never need to wonder how or why … Look around this world we made Equality our stock in trade Come and join the brotherhood of man Oh what a wide contented world Let the banners be unfurled Hold the red star proudly high in hand_ The lyrics were spoken by the villians of the story, not the good guys. If that isn’t a shot directly across the bow of socialists and communists, I don’t know what is. The song ‘Anthem’ itself has probably the most explicit Objectivist statement ever put to music: \*Live for yourself – there’s no one else More worth living for Begging hands and bleeding hearts will Only cry out for more Well, I know they’ve always told you Selfishness was wrong Yet it was for me, not you, i Came to write this song\* > [@](#): > > Your statement about “The Trees” is correct. Your statement about “Free Will” is not. I don’t know where you’re getting your ideas about the content of these songs. \*You can choose a ready guide In some celestial voice If you choose not to decide You still have made a choice You can choose from phantom fears And kindness that can kill I will choose a path thats clear I will choose free will\* Again the themes of athiesm, reason, self-determination, and a shot against altruism or socialism (“kindness that can kill”). The song goes on to say that you have free will and can make your own way in the world, and it castigates those who think that they have no power or control simply because they were dealt a lousy hand at birth. This was Neal Peart the full-on Objectivist writing this. > [@](#): > > I just don’t want you to get the idea that you can pretend that Rush’s popularity equates to any endorsement of right-wing philosophy within their lyrics. That’s what’s so what. A certain amount of Rush’s popularity has to do with their being icons of rock amongst Libertarians and Objectivists. But only a small part. I’m sure that the vast majority of Rush fans like them because of the music, and not the message. But there’s no doubt that at least in the first half of Rush’s career they wrote music with libertarian/Objectivist themes. Then there’s “Witch Hunt” from Moving Pictures: \*They say there are strangers who threaten us, Our immigrants and infidels. They say there is strangeness to danger us In our theatres and bookstore shelves, That those who know what’s best for us Must rise and save us from ourselves. Quick to judge, Quick to anger, Slow to understand Ignorance and prejudice And fear walk hand in hand.\* “Those who know what’s best for us must rise and save us from ourselves” was not meant to be a flattering portrayal of socialists OR social conservatives. The theme of the song is that people are told to be afraid so that others can gain power with the promise to keep them safe. That politicians prey on people’s ignorance and prejudice to control them. Rush had a whole ‘Fear Cycle’ of songs of the same theme - others using fear to control people. A lot of it is not overt preaching - the message is in the subject matter and the tone. For instance, “The Camera Eye” celebrates the city - the buildings, the purposeful stridess of the inhabitants, the ‘sense of possibilities’. It’s basically an anti-luddite message very much in the Randian tradition. By the way, Rush’s own ‘logo’, the man set against a red five-pointed star (seen [here](http://img.metblogs.com/la/files/2008/05/starman.jpg)), is supposed to represent the struggle of the individual against the forces of collectivism, by Neal Peart’s own admission. The use of a red star to represent collectivism is not accidental. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/86 "2009-10-20T22:15:39Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Because regardless of her intentions, in practice it amounts to an ideological excuse for sociopathy. A rejection of any obligation to treat other people as anything other than resources to be exploited, or waste to be discarded. “Screw you, I’ve got mine!” in more noble sounding language. And it feeds into the ego fantasy of the wealthier and more powerful that they got there by their own superiority; not luck or the support of others. A non-religious version of prosperity theology. What you’re describing is invariably true of college-age and twenty-something pseudo-Objectivists . . . who latch onto a few of Rand’s ideas and customize them to fit their own particular neuroses. After a certain age they tend to be either no longer Objectivists or no longer neurotic. Usually the former. The Ayn Rand Bookstore has an audio book by Tara Smith, entitled “Virtues or Vices? Kindness, Generosity, Charity.” It’s very enlightening . . . and yes, they are Objectivist “virtues.” ---
**Author:** ![nameless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/779978/32.png) [@nameless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nameless)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/87 "2009-10-20T22:52:20Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This is like Obama jokes - the left will not accept that anything that deviates from the left-wing line has any merit, no matter what. Eh? I mean there’s two possibilities in play here. One: everyone is so hyper-partisan over here that they can’t appreciate the value of right-wing media. Two: there’s very little right-wing media of appreciable value. I lean towards the latter explanation, and it seems that **Sam Stone** does too. Both could be true of course, but two should be pretty easy to disprove. The creative class leans left. Probably it’s because there’s other demographic variables in play–they tend to be younger; perhaps also not as wealthy. But I think to ignore that and indict the Leftist Mob on the SDMB _again_ is a little played out, right? Although I wasn’t previously aware of the libertarian bent of Rush. Which was interesting to learn. ---
**Author:** ![nameless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/779978/32.png) [@nameless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nameless)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 10:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/88 "2009-10-20T22:53:49Z")
Wait, I got one. The Beatles wrote a song called “Taxman” which was actually about high taxation under the Labour government. I love Taxman. I sing it all the time. I mean: oh those right-wing talentless good-for-nothings! ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2009, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/89 "2009-10-20T23:00:58Z")
Bever mind ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 11:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/90 "2009-10-21T11:52:14Z")
Sam, I love that you are quoting Rush lyrics to me and explaining song lyrics to me that I spent adolescent nights reading and re-reading and singing and playing trivia games with friends about. I chose my handle because of my affinity for Rush. > [@](#): > > Peart is like a lot of Ayn Rand followers. He WAS a ‘disciple’ when he was young, then he grew up and expanded his views. At the point they were making ‘2112’ the fact that he dedicated the entire album to her ‘genius’ should make it pretty clear where he stood at that time. Right – but to say he “expanded” his views is to put a fairly dramatic spin on things. Seems to me that, like a lot of people, he grew up and moved away from a Randian mentality as he became aware that it’s not a functional philosophy. A lot of what you’ve written is accurate, and I haven’t contended that he never was influenced by Rand. In fact, I specifically mentioned Anthem and 2112, and here you are bringing these up as if they were novel observations that I’ve somehow disagreed with. > [@](#): > > Sorry, I mixed up ‘Anthem’ with the title of Rand’s book. It was the entire 2112 album that revolves around that story. Nope. One side of the album. A Passage to Bankok, Tears, Twilight Zone, and Something for Nothing are completely separate. Where are you getting your info? You’re Canadian – aren’t you all fans of Rush? And “Free Will” is rightie only if you think that rejecting religion and praising free will are the province of the right. I don’t. In fact, isn’t an atheistic orientation expressly rejected by the political right? Similarly, it’s not particularly right wing to reject a witch hunt mentality, and the censorship of art and expression to me is emblematic of a conservative and politically rightwing rather than leftie orientation, as in “Witch Hunt.” I’d say, at least in America, that it is the right that is more likely to fear the “strangeness” in our “theaters and bookstore shelves.” > [@](#): > > Rush had a whole ‘Fear Cycle’ of songs of the same theme - others using fear to control people. Wrong again. While “The Weapon” is manifestly about how one’s fears can be used as a weapon by others, “The Enemy Within” isn’t about other people using fear to control you – the name should give the meaning away. Similarly, “Freeze” is about how people respond to fears. This is more trying to see a bunny rabbit in the clouds, and the discussion of fear in the fear “trilogy” has about as much to do with right-wing political orientation as “Emotion Detector” does. > [@](#): > > A lot of it is not overt preaching - the message is in the subject matter and the tone. For instance, “The Camera Eye” celebrates the city - the buildings, the purposeful stridess of the inhabitants, the ‘sense of possibilities’. It’s basically an anti-luddite message very much in the Randian tradition. Enjoying the awe-inspiring impact of the buildings and the pace of the people in New York City is now a right-wing message? What do you make of a song like “Tai Shan” then, or of “Mystic Rhythms”, which are both about appreciating the opposite of the pulse and purposeful strides of the city? What about another album-side venture, “Hemispheres”, which suggests that human rationality and city building cannot survive without emotion and interconnectivity? > [@](#): > > By the way, Rush’s own ‘logo’, the man set against a red five-pointed star (seen here), is supposed to represent the struggle of the individual against the forces of collectivism, by Neal Peart’s own admission. The use of a red star to represent collectivism is not accidental. It’s Neil, not Neal. And for every stanza that you think celebrates an independent attitude towards society, there’s at least one that mourns a disconnection from society, such as: > [@](#): > > Nothing can survive in a vacuum > No one can exists all alone > We pretend things only happen to strangers > We’ve all got problems of our own > It’s enough to learn to share our pleasures > We can’t soothe pain with sympathy > All that we can do is be reminded > We shake our heads at the tragedy > > … > > It’s just the age > It’s just a stage > We disengage > We turn the page. Or > [@](#): > > A memo to a higher office > Open letter to the powers-that-be > To a god, a king, a head of state > A captain of industry > To the movers and the shakers – > Can’t everybody see? > > It ought to be second nature – > I mean, the places where we live! > Let’s talk about this sensibly – > We’re not insensitive > I know progress has no patience – > But something’s got to give or > [@](#): > > I thought I was okay alone, wait for the postman and the telephone. > Lost in a world of my own, I thought I could run alone… > Hand over hand doesn’t seem so much. Hand over hand is the strength of the common touch… I feel my spirit resist, but I open up my fist. Lay hand over hand over hand…” or > [@](#): > > Spin a thread of precious contact > Squeeze in all that you can find > Spontaneous relations > And the long-enduring kind > … > Superman in Supernature > Needs all the comfort he can find > Spontaneous emotion > And the long enduring kind Or > [@](#): > > Half the world divided, like a torn up photograph. Half of us are trying to reach the other half. What do you make of songs that recognize that people cannot be entirely self-made, and are subject to the effects of their environment, such as: > [@](#): > > If we’re so much the same like I always hear, why such different fortunes and fates? …Some are blessed and some are cursed. The golden one or scarred from birth. … Such a lot a pain on the Earth. Some things can never be changed. Some reasons will never come clear. It’s somehow so badly arranged if we’re so much the same like I always hear or > [@](#): > > We can only grow the way the wind blows on our bare and whethered shores. We can only bow to the here and now in our elemental war. We can only bow to the here and now or be broken down blow by blow. Finally, a whole host of Rush songs specifically decry corporate and business influence on art and humanity like “The Big Money,” “Spirit of Radio,” “Natural Sciences,” and “Closer to the Heart”? Is a rejection of corporatism and the corrupting influence of moneyed interests a particularly right-wing kind of thing? ---
**Author:** ![Eternal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@Eternal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eternal)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/91 "2009-10-21T12:10:53Z")
That post is sad for so many reasons ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/92 "2009-10-21T13:06:01Z")
> [@Eternal](#): > > That post is sad for so many reasons None of which you are apparently willing to describe. ---
**Author:** ![Eternal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@Eternal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eternal)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/93 "2009-10-21T13:27:33Z")
In truth there are only two, but I broke them up into subcategories. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 1:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/94 "2009-10-21T13:30:38Z")
> [@Eternal](#): > > In truth there are only two, but I broke them up into subcategories. But you still won’t say what they are. ---
**Author:** ![Eternal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@Eternal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eternal)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/95 "2009-10-21T13:37:20Z")
that’s right, I _refuse_ to. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/96 "2009-10-21T13:43:08Z")
> [@Eternal](#): > > that’s right, I _refuse_ to. There are three separate ways in which your post demonstrates your intention of collaborating with the Lizard People in their control of Earth. I will not, of course, actually say what those ways are. ---
**Author:** ![Eternal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ecb155/32.png) [@Eternal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eternal)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/97 "2009-10-21T14:15:03Z")
I won’t be dragged down to your level. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2009, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/98 "2009-10-21T14:23:16Z")
> [@Eternal](#): > > I won’t be dragged down to your level. And what level would that be? ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/99 "2009-10-22T00:42:25Z")
“Well, you can stake that claim – Good work is the key to good fortune Winners take that praise Losers seldom take that blame” Rush, Roll the Bones ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2009, 11:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125/100 "2009-10-22T11:24:19Z")
> [@msmith537](#): > > “Well, you can stake that claim – > Good work is the key to good fortune > Winners take that praise > Losers seldom take that blame” > > Rush, Roll the Bones “We draw our own designs, but fortune has to make that frame.” Rush, Roll the Bones I’m intrigued by this. Many of the lyrics being cited endorse a belief that people have free will but are subject to fortune and circumstance as well. This is my belief, and I don’t see it as inconsistent with being a liberal whatsoever. The question I have for you all is this: Do you actually think that liberals believe otherwise? Is this confusion just another example of conservatives believing a very cartoonish construction of others rather than understanding what others actually believe? In my opinion, very few liberals would actually differ with the idea of personal responsibility while also recognizing that some are born into good fortune and some are born into very crappy circumstances. As to this particular song, it questions the existence of god. “Roll the bones” refers to life as a crapshoot. Again, I would point out that atheism is not consistent with the right-wing. From elsewhere in the song: “Faith is cold as ice – Why are little ones born only to suffer For the want of immunity Or a bowl of rice?” So, I read the section of lyrics that **msmith537** quoted in regards to “winners” in the same fashion as the famous line about George W. Bush being born on third base and believing that he hit a triple. You either see it that way or you have to believe that Peart is actually calling “innocent children” losers. It’s quite similar to “The Larger Bowl,” which I quoted above. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-own-me-libertarian-rap/514125.md?page=6)