I (particularly) Pit the Wikileaks denial-of-service tantrums

[jlzania]

You know, I have the right to donate money to a cause that I believe in and Wikileaks is not listed as a terrorist organization. Paypal and Mastercard and Visa have no right to decide that I cannot support Wikileaks financially if I chose. I doubt that any of the aforementioned companies would give a flying fuck if I decided to donate to a homophobic fundamentalist group

[XT]

So, I’m going to assume that the OP is equally outraged by the fact that Wikileaks supporters have launched DOS attacks at various targets in retaliation…right BG?

-XT

[Palooka]

Calling the 4chan crowd supporters of anything is a bit silly. They only do shit for the lulz.

[Library_Boy]

@Grumman

You’re a goddamn idiot, you know that? Openness should begin with the government, because they are granted extraordinary powers, supposedly for your benefit. You should care when the government and its agents shit all over what your country supposedly stands for, and should be thanking Assange for bringing their actions to your attention.

An honest question:

What in the State Department cable leaks show the government doing anything illegal? What conduct harmful to the country did they expose? I have seen nothing showing they are exposing bad government actions in this. What am I missing?

[Oakminster]

@jlzania

Paypal and Mastercard and Visa have no right to decide that I cannot support Wikileaks financially if I chose.

But they do have a right to decide who they will and will no do business with, and your approval is not required. It’s a business decision, pure and simple.

[Derleth]

@Oakminster

But they do have a right to decide who they will and will no do business with, and your approval is not required. It’s a business decision, pure and simple.

Part of growing up is learning that decisions have consequences.

I wonder when corporations will start to grow up. The government certainly doesn’t seem to have much of a clue about that.

[Oakminster]

@Derleth

Part of growing up is learning that decisions have consequences.

Remember that when the cyber-terrorists get caught and face long prison sentences.

[Derleth]

@Oakminster

Remember that when the cyber-terrorists get caught and face long prison sentences.

You really are a piece of work, aren’t you?

First, terrorism is not vandalism, and vice-versa, regardless of how much money it costs. Or do you think the people who lost family on 9/11 would be happy with you comparing random death with people temporarily occupying a lunch counter?

Second, do you understand the concept of Distributed Denial of Service? If it was just a couple goons in Guy Fawkes masks stroking fluffy white cats, it wouldn’t work. There is no Blofeld, there is no Joker, there is no Jason Bourne. There’s just a significant number of angry people spread thinly across the entire Internet. If they all marked their doors on the same day, you’d probably have to journey many hours to see more than one of the bloody things, especially if you left the coasts.

Third, even if the government does make an example of a few of them, what net effect do you think that will have? Fish gotta swim, birds gotta fly, and humans gotta be assholes, even if the great mass of them loses a few clods.

That’s all this is: A great mass, a random bunch that sporadically and spontaneously satisfies some synchronized summons, semi-safe in a substantially sizable slew, subsequently sedentary and surpassingly slack.

[The_Second_Stone]

Are we pitting the attacks against Wiki? Or the attacks against the people bailing on Wiki like MasterCard and Paypal? Either way, it is bullshit unless the government issues a formal and judicially reviewable order.

[Ionizer]

Interesting things happening. Mastercard may have had thousands of customers ID’s stolen/phished during this DDoS thingy. I have seen a few stories and most track back towards this Digg. It would not surprise at all if this was 100% accurate, though. Another link for it. Mastercard customers may wanna check, of course, for better confirmation once Mastercard comes back online reliably. Cyberstuff sure happens fast, no doubt at all. I am so glad I used my Mastercard last night instead of tonight - phew… I am cancelling that card, too, knowing what I now know.

Kind of changes the complexion of it being a simple DDoS, imho. But Mastercard sure has some crappy security if ID’s can be stolen at will! Revelations every few minutes lately, it would seem

[Ionizer]

@Ionizer

Kind of changes the complexion of it being a simple DDoS, imho. But Mastercard sure has some crappy security if ID’s can be stolen at will! Revelations every few minutes lately, it would seem

False alarm, basically, that looked pretty real initially with fake lists of accounts circulating. Plenty of folks believed it outright if the number of persons posting in other Forums is an indicator. Mission accomplished? I had a Customer Service rep tell me (after trying to get through quite awhile) that they were not all that sure about things themselves. Probably pretty hectic on the phone lines there…

[BigT]

I just find it funny that the people who support smaller government are okay with the larger government they hate keeping secrets from them. It doesn’t make any rational sense. Of course the way to get government to get out of their lives is to allow them to do a bunch of stuff in secret.

Like it or not, this security leak is a good thing. It will make the U.S. work on their obviously insecure policies, while the company doing the revelation will remove actual threatening information. Would people rather it have been actual terrorists or spies who got this information?

Heck, the government should be happy that everyone has the same information–it’s a level playing field. All they are doing now is encouraging anyone who leaks to do so to places that will not publicize it. You know, like the enemies we are so worried about.

[jlzania]

@Oakminster

But they do have a right to decide who they will and will no do business with, and your approval is not required. It’s a business decision, pure and simple.

So you’d be equally as sanguine if Mastercard decided that, as a business, it only wanted me to purchase environmentally sound cars and refused to release my money to make a down payment on a Hummer.

See, it’s not their decision as to who I chose to do business with-it’s mine.
Mastercard simply acts as a conduit and collects an agreed upon fee.

[Morgenstern]

@jlzania

So you’d be equally as sanguine if Mastercard decided that, as a business, it only wanted me to purchase environmentally sound cars and refused to release my money to make a down payment on a Hummer.

See, it’s not their decision as to who I chose to do business with-it’s mine.
Mastercard simply acts as a conduit and collects an agreed upon fee.

Correct me if I’m wrong here, but what private business doesn’t have a right to choose who they do business with? If they choose not to do business with Hummer, then you have a choice. Go elsewhere or pay cash.

[fluiddruid]

@Ionizer

Interesting things happening. Mastercard may have had thousands of customers ID’s stolen/phished during this DDoS thingy. I have seen a few stories and most track back towards this Digg. It would not surprise at all if this was 100% accurate, though. Another link for it. Mastercard customers may wanna check, of course, for better confirmation once Mastercard comes back online reliably. Cyberstuff sure happens fast, no doubt at all. I am so glad I used my Mastercard last night instead of tonight - phew… I am cancelling that card, too, knowing what I now know.

I was lurking on 4chan last night since I was curious as to what was going on. From what I understand, this was an intentionally destructive rumor intended to encourage people to massively cancel Mastercard cards. ‘Operation Bank-Troll’, or something like that.

Then again, it’s always possible that the rumor was intended to cover the actual theft. It’d be pretty sharp for someone to take advantage of the attacks in that way. But I’m not cancelling my card.

[Oakminster]

@Morgenstern

Correct me if I’m wrong here, but what private business doesn’t have a right to choose who they do business with? If they choose not to do business with Hummer, then you have a choice. Go elsewhere or pay cash.

Exactly. Plenty of businesses do not take debit or credit cards at all. Some take some brands of card but not other brands. Mastercard is not preventing people from spending money the way they choose, they are limiting the companies Mastercard does business with. The consumer is perfectly free to use other forms of payment.

[Ravenman]

@jlzania

So you’d be equally as sanguine if Mastercard decided that, as a business, it only wanted me to purchase environmentally sound cars and refused to release my money to make a down payment on a Hummer.

See, it’s not their decision as to who I chose to do business with-it’s mine.
Mastercard simply acts as a conduit and collects an agreed upon fee.

Wait, we’re talking about credit cards here, right?

In which case, you are paying for the privilege of using their money. Not yours.

[alphaboi867]

@Library_Boy

An honest question:

What in the State Department cable leaks show the government doing anything illegal? What conduct harmful to the country did they expose? I have seen nothing showing they are exposing bad government actions in this. What am I missing?

Well there’s the whole spying on UN officials in NYC in violation of the treaty we signed back when we agreed to host the UN HQ thing.

[Skald_the_Rhymer]

@Shodan

If the Wikileakers want to operate outside the rule of law, it is difficult to be sympathetic with their misfortunes when no longer protected.

Poetic justice would be for every detail of their lives to be made public, especially the embarrassing parts. I want to see all the details of every financial transaction they ever engaged in, their tax returns, the details of their sex lives (if any), photos and addresses of their families - the works.

Openness, like charity, should begin at home.

Failing that, maybe they can leak something from Iran or similar, and have a death fatwa taken out against them.

Regards,
Shodan

What Shodan said.

[jlzania]

@Ravenman

Wait, we’re talking about credit cards here, right?

In which case, you are paying for the privilege of using their money. Not yours.

My debit card is issued by Mastercard. Sorry for not being clearer.
And I fully understand that a business has the right to decide who it wants to do business with but to me, this is so obviously politically motivated that it appalls me.

Shodan Poetic justice would be for every detail of their lives to be made public, especially the embarrassing parts. I want to see all the details of every financial transaction they ever engaged in, their tax returns, the details of their sex lives (if any), photos and addresses of their families - the works.

Openness, like charity, should begin at home.

Why?
To the best of my knowledge Wikileaks is not revealing personal details about the lives of diplomats or politicians.