I pit 48 fps

To elaborate - people talk about “pathways” in the brain. This does not have a very precise meaning, but it generally refers to how different parts of the brain are activated when you’re performing different tasks, or evaluating different kinds of information. In the context of vision, there are all sorts of processing tasks your brain performs automatically without your conscious control, effort, or awareness. Your brain automatically fills in the image when you blink, for instance, automatically fills in the rather large blind spot caused by the optic nerve attachment to the retina, and automatically processes the geometry and extent of objects even when you look at unmoving, 2D scenes. Have you ever wondered why, even with one eye closed, you have an innate awareness of the size, shape, orientation, etc. of all the objects in a scene, as opposed to just seeing a mess of colors? That is this part of the brain at work. Optical illusions all work by fooling this part of the brain, and the best illusions fool parts of the brain you can’t consciously bypass. anyway…

The “uncanny valley” refers to the fact that people find it disturbing to look at replicas of human beings that are highly realistic but not quite perfect. Of course, people have no problem looking at highly stylized replicas of human beings, nor at perfect replicas, but as you go up in accuracy you pass through a close-but-not-quite-perfect region in which the replica looks indescribably revolting.

Wikipedia as always has a good description and examples, although some of their proposed explanations for the effect are a little wacko. Uncanny valley - Wikipedia

The theory proposed by certain experts on human vision, greatly simplified, is that, if a replica is sufficiently different from a human, your brain processes it using perceptual pathways that it uses for other inanimate objects. As the replica becomes more human-like, the perceptual pathways that are used to handle humans begin to become activated, and these unconsciously pick up on all the subtle ways in which the replica is “wrong” or inconsistent with past experience.

I suspect the “soap opera effect” has a similar basis. When you are a watching an ordinary 24 fps movie, the motion is sufficiently different from reality that some of the normal pathways your brain uses to process a moving visual scene are not activated. After all, your brain evolved for billions of years to process motion at the fastest rate the eye can see, and the subtle stutter-step of 24 fps movies has no connection to anything in nature. Various specialized, high-speed processes in your brain, that are normally inactive when staring at still images, remain inactive when staring at a quasi-rapid succession of still images.

A high-frame-rate movie is faster than your eye can detect (or very close, anyway), and this is enough to activate some additional parts of your brain that are normally suppressed when watching low-frame-rate movies. Many of these are probably related to the interaction between motion and movement, and motion and lighting, and are normally suppressed because 24 fps stutter-steps is not the input they evolved to handle over billions of years. 48 fps is fast enough to at least partially activate them, and so these other pathways activate, and you notice all the things that are “wrong” in various ways - armor that is supposed to be solid and heavy but actually flexes slightly when the actor moves, a piece of “wood” in the background that actually interacts with the light more like the piece of painted plastic it really is, etc.

Now just imagine how much you’re going to hate watching Avatar 2 in 60fps!!

I dont think I have to worry about that :stuck_out_tongue:

That could be a problem with the 3D. I watched an IMAX (old school IMAX) 3D film about making 3D films. If you set the cameras closer together, things look bigger. If you sent them too far apart, you can make a natural scene look like a train miniature.

Have you ever gone back to a place you knew as a child but now as an adult the place seems smaller? It’s not just because you are taller, but your eyes are farther apart.

It is something you get used to.

Absolute:

Yes, I don’t have an HD TV that does the High Motion iterpolation thing, but I tried to watch a movie at a friends who had it activated, and it made Fight Club look like it was shot using video tech stolen from the set of General Hospital.

I wanted to destroy something beautiful.

Then again, this is interpolating 24fps, so the extra frames in between isn’t actual recorded footage. I do think the uncanny valley is a major factor to it as well. Here’s a graph applying it to anthropomorphized of characters. I’d but the Avatar CG and Gollum up past the vally, a notch or two below Real Human.

Still, it makes me nervous.

I saw it in 48fps 3D and really the only thing I noticed being different was that in fast motion sequences you could see ALL the detail, there was no blurring at all.

Now, I was fairly far back in the theatre, so I don’t know if that had any impact or not, but honestly I don’t see what all the fuss is about. Either for or against the technology.

I already saw it in 4D. Meh.

I suspect, 20 years from now kids will make fun of their parents for actually wanting to watch movies at 24 FPS.

“That is so like 2010’s dad!”

And in 50 years it’ll be the norm and people will watch 24 FPS films like they watch black and white movies now.

There are two issues, I think.

The first one is simply that’s it’s new and different, and people HATE anything new and different, until it’s not new and different anymore, and then they love it. Not much that can be done about this.

The second issue is that the higher FPS makes the scene appear much more realistic, and with that realism in framerate, your brain EXPECTS everything else to be more realistic, and if that doesn’t happen, the scene seems “off”. It’s like the uncanny valley of frame rate.

I remember watching a film in high frame rate IMAX in a huge dome theater here in Jersey. There was a part which featured some guy crashing in through the roof of the dome. It looked incredibly real. Like it was a play, rather than a movie. When he landed, on what the film showed as a stage, it really looked like there really was a stage in front of us, rather than ascreen. If the CGI isn’t up to snuff, it’ll look like a video game, and create an ugly contrast against non-cgi sets. The sets themselves might look too much like a set in a play rather than actual locales, if care is not also taken with lighting and the small details of the area.

It’s a new technology and likely it’ll take some time for cinematography and CGI to catch up fully.

I’m just glad film judder is done away with. I can’t stand judder.

I didn’t think it was better or worse, just different. Like other people said, it felt super high res. I don’t know if it was the filming method or the makeup department, but everyone’s skin was much smoother and flawless. Of course, that might just have been because they had characters that were supposed to be younger when their actors were now 10 years older! :stuck_out_tongue:

I was more impressed with the 3D, it felt very natural and immersive as opposed to gimmicky.

There definitely was an aspect, sometimes of the motion looking too fast. It almost entirely happened when arms or legs were moving against a still backdrop, it was jarring. That said, I found 90% of the movie to be fine, it only popped up occasionally. I can also say that this is the first 3D movie to not give me a hint of eye strain or a headache, so something was certainly working.

I forgot to mention, I wonder what it is that makes 48FPS cinema different from video games. The standard “good” framerate is 60FPS (or some ridiculous number if you don’t have vSync on), anything lower than 30FPS is usually termed “choppy shit.” I wonder what it is about filming in 48FPS that causes that weird “fast motion” effect sometimes that doesn’t affect video games with even higher framerates.

Maybe. But there will also be a lot of kids who think music without Auto-Tune sounds weird and old-fashioned, and I’m not sure I’d call that progress…

Normally I shoot videos at 50 or 60 FPS, and when I finish editing them I halve the frame rate. The difference is very clear, they look much choppier than the original footage if you see one after the other.

Kind of a related anecdote. As a teenager fiddling with electronics I made an oscillating circuit one day that would both light a LED and made a click on a speaker; as I increased the frequency I noticed that the threshold for discerning individual flashes and clicks was the same, I would start to see a continuous light and hear a constant note at the same frequency.

What frequency was that, do you recall? Sounds interesting.

I’ve heard that above 75 fps or so you can’t tell the difference, but I’m not sure if that’s right. I can tell the difference between 120 FPS and 60 FPS, though i’ve never actually tried to tell the difference between 75 and 120.

I haven’t seen any movies in this new format yet, but from what I’ve read it sounds like the real problem is with special effects (or other “non-natural” elements") needing to keep up with the new filming technology. Flaws in the effects that were not noticeable, or were minimally noticeable, are now much more noticeable. I suspect that it won’t be too long before the special effects catch up.

I’m reminded of the situation when HD was new-- a lot of people on TV, like newscasters, looked ridiculous in the make-up that was used. That make-up was fine for SD TV, but HD showed it off so much more that it looked bad.

EXACTLY.

It’s just a matter of the artists becoming comfortable working with the new tech.

I also recall a contingent of people hating on HD. It wasn’t uncommon to hear some random guy on any random forum saying how DVD looked better than HD.

I recall going to the St. Paul Science Museum when they had the Star Wars stuff there, including props and uniforms. It looked really cheesy bad fake. I kept seeing things and thinking “this fakey looking piece of shit was the X they showed in the movie?!?!?!”

Well congratulations, you can’t get away with that anymore. Not only is every pore on the actor’s skin up there in glorious detail, so are the inglorious details of your costumes and props.

I have not seen this yet. But I wonder how much of it is a result of the technology and how much of it is that Directors are still learning what does and does not work very well. Peter Jackson deserves kudos for pushing the envelope, but it wouldn’t surprise me if it didn’t look great because he simply doesn’t know (as likely nobody really does) the best way to shoot a movie at 48fps.

Apparently, Jackson used a shutter angle of 270º to try to keep a decent amount of motion blur. And there don’t seem to be the same complaints about the 24 fps version, which is just every other frame of the same footage. So, it’s not just the lack of motion blur that throws people off.

I haven’t seen it (and probably won’t, I’m really not much of a movie guy), but I did want to point out this blog post from Vincent Laforet, who’s a professional videographer himself, and saw the movie in 3D HFS, 3D regular, and 2D regular, and had a similar reaction to the HFS that the OP here did. He gets into a lot of the technical details, and a lot of guessing as to what’s going on with a movie that’s so much better with the less advanced technology.