# I pit all conservatives who have bought into the Halbig/King ACA trutherism nonsense **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 19, 2014, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625 "2014-12-19T00:04:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/101 "2015-01-01T16:35:24Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > My company’s insurance plan would require me to pay about 8.8% of my gross income for the most basic insurance coverage. That’s too much, and I chose no insurance for 2013, and I will pay the penalty instead. I have no problem with paying for healthcare, but I simply can’t afford that much. The ACA, as it stands, is unfairly penalizing the working poor and lower middle class, IMHO. So, did you try the exchange in your state instead of the plan your employer offered? And, I don’t think there is any definition of “working poor” that does not include everyone who gets a subsidy to help pay for insurance. Did you look into your eligibility for a subsidy? ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/102 "2015-01-01T16:43:46Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > On what planet is 51.1% a landslide? I was referring to the EV count - Obama’s 332 to Romney’s 206. [Even Republicans were calling such a huge EV total a landslide.](http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?84788-Republicans-agree-Obama-won-by-a-landslide&) ---
**Author:** ![2ManyTacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/3da27b/32.png) [@2ManyTacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2ManyTacos)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/103 "2015-01-01T16:46:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > What does it mean to “put on hold” the ACA? I can imagine people having all sorts of ideas about what that means. And putting it on hold until all legal challenges are done simply means people will continue to challenge it indefinitely. That, to me, looks like a polling question in search of a specific answer, but an answer that really doesn’t mean anything. Also, a million times this. This polling blip is nothing more than an arcane question in search of a soundbite. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/104 "2015-01-01T16:55:54Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > So, did you try the exchange in your state instead of the plan your employer offered? And, I don’t think there is any definition of “working poor” that does not include everyone who gets a subsidy to help pay for insurance. Did you look into your eligibility for a subsidy? Dude, exchanges don’t offer plans to people whose employer offers a qualifying plan. That’s me. And AFAIK, you can’t get a subsidy for an employer - provided plan. Certainly I am not eligible, even though my gross salary is less than 25K. And my health is excellent, because I take very good care of it. I don’t need a $150-a-month plan. I’m sure that seems like a reasonable amount to our CEO, but he has no idea how difficult it is to pay that on less than 25K a year. The same can be said for all the people who created and voted on the ACA. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/105 "2015-01-01T16:58:10Z")
> [@2ManyTacos](#): > > I was referring to the EV count - Obama’s 332 to Romney’s 206. [Even Republicans were calling such a huge EV total a landslide.](http://forums.floridasportsman.com/showthread.php?84788-Republicans-agree-Obama-won-by-a-landslide&) Dude, he was trolling. He knew perfectly well about the electoral vote total. There’s no need to respond to such trollery, IMO. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/106 "2015-01-01T17:06:21Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Dude, exchanges don’t offer plans to people whose employer offers a qualifying plan. > **[See Your Options If You Have Job-Based Health Insurance](https://www.healthcare.gov/have-job-based-coverage/)** > > If you have a Marketplace plan and then get an offer of health insurance through a job, you may no longer qualify for savings on your Marketplace plan. > Learn what you can do if you have job-based health insurance. Visit Healthcare.gov to see the... ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/107 "2015-01-01T17:10:31Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > [See Your Options If You Have Job-Based Health Insurance](https://www.healthcare.gov/have-job-based-coverage/) Yeah, I don’t qualify. 23K is too much to qualify. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/108 "2015-01-01T17:17:14Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Yeah, I don’t qualify. 23K is too much to qualify. GOt a cite for that? ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/109 "2015-01-01T17:23:09Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > GOt a cite for that? Yeah, the fact that I tried to sign up on [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov) and was told I didn’t qualify is cite enough for me, smart guy. LOL ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/110 "2015-01-01T17:28:47Z")
So, you don’t have a cite. I didn’t think you would. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/111 "2015-01-01T17:32:57Z")
From [healthcare.gov](http://healthcare.gov)… "…“Affordable” plans and the 9.5% standard A job-based health plan is considered “affordable” if the employee’s share of monthly premiums for the lowest-costself-onlycoverage that meets the minimum value standard is less than 9.5% of their family’s income…" Of course the plan is less than 9.5% of my family’s income. So what? We live hand-to-mouth as it is, just like everybody else who makes about the same money we do. There’s no room to spend money for a health plan for a perennially healthy family member. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/112 "2015-01-01T17:34:02Z")
Are you satisfied? ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/113 "2015-01-01T17:37:41Z")
[http:// [https://www.healthcare.gov/have-job-based-coverage/change-to-marketplace-plan/](https://www.healthcare.gov/have-job-based-coverage/change-to-marketplace-plan/)](http:// [https://www.healthcare.gov/have-job-based-coverage/change-to-marketplace-plan/](https://www.healthcare.gov/have-job-based-coverage/change-to-marketplace-plan/)) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/114 "2015-01-01T17:43:47Z")
You said 23K is too much to qualify. Your cite doesn’t attest to that. And it’s unclear whether “family income” is gross or net. Have you confirmed which it is? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/115 "2015-01-01T17:50:36Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Yeah, I don’t qualify. 23K is too much to qualify. You said “exchanges don’t offer plans to people whose employer offers a qualifying plan.” I was just showing you that isn’t true. But you’re probably right in your assumption that your employer-contributed plan beats what’s out there to buy at full price. This doesn’t mean the ACA doesn’t benefit you, of course. Even though it wasn’t targeted to help people like you who already have relatively affordable health insurance, it may nevertheless help you by holding down the increases in premiums you would otherwise have paid (both through cost-cutting and through obligations placed on insurance companies), and ensure that the plan you do have doesn’t screw you if things go very wrong, among other direct and indirect benefits. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/116 "2015-01-01T17:51:15Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You said 23K is too much to qualify. Your cite doesn’t attest to that. > > And it’s unclear whether “family income” is gross or net. Have you confirmed which it is? My gross base income, not including occasional small amounts of overtime, is about 23,000. 10% of that is about 2300. My premium would be about 170 a month. That’s about 2040 a year. I don’t even qualify under MY salary, let alone our combined, which is around 60K gross. I’m not trying to be a jerk, these are just the numbers as they stand, currently. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/117 "2015-01-01T17:54:12Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > You said “exchanges don’t offer plans to people whose employer offers a qualifying plan.” I was just showing you that isn’t true. But you’re probably right in your assumption that your employer-contributed plan beats what’s out there to buy at full price. > > This doesn’t mean the ACA doesn’t benefit you, of course. Even though it wasn’t targeted to help people like you who already have relatively affordable health insurance, it may nevertheless help you by holding down the increases in premiums you would otherwise have paid (both through cost-cutting and through obligations placed on insurance companies), and ensure that the plan you do have doesn’t screw you if things go very wrong, among other direct and indirect benefits. Gosh, how lucky I am. LOL I can’t afford “my” plan, so I’m paying the penalty this year. Like I already said, if you would bother to read my posts better. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/118 "2015-01-01T18:00:39Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > Gosh, how lucky I am. LOL > > I can’t afford “my” plan, so I’m paying the penalty this year. Like I already said, if you would bother to read my posts better. I read them just fine. I was correcting your misstatement that people with employer-provided plans cannot shop on the marketplace, and pointing out that lots of families like yours–as you put it–are benefitting from Obamacare even when they do not qualify for subsidies. You tell us that you would not dedicate 8.9% of your income to health coverage, and would put it toward other things if given the choice. That may well be a rational decision for you. Though I’m skeptical that pre-ACA you would have been able to afford catastrophic coverage and basic medical care on non-employer market for less than you’re being asked to pay now. ---
**Author:** ![get\_lives](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/ecb155/32.png) [@get\_lives](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/get_lives)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/119 "2015-01-01T18:06:36Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > I read them just fine. I was correcting your misstatement that people with employer-provided plans cannot shop on the marketplace, and pointing out that lots of families like yours–as you put it–are benefitting from Obamacare even when they do not qualify for subsidies. > > You tell us that you would not dedicate 8.9% of your income to health coverage, and would put it toward other things if given the choice. That may well be a rational decision for you. Though I’m skeptical that pre-ACA you would have been able to afford catastrophic coverage and basic medical care on non-employer market for less than you’re being asked to pay now. So you then admit that this is an undue burden? Because trust me, nearly everybody else in my shoes feels the same. My BOSS even chose to go without coverage, for the same reason…How about that? ROFL "affordable " care act, my ASS. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [January 1, 2015, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625/120 "2015-01-01T18:09:02Z")
> [@get\_lives](#): > > My gross base income, not including occasional small amounts of overtime, is about 23,000. > > 10% of that is about 2300. > > My premium would be about 170 a month. That’s about 2040 a year. > > I don’t even qualify under MY salary, let alone our combined, which is around 60K gross. > > I’m not trying to be a jerk, these are just the numbers as they stand, currently. Well, I wasn’t trying to be a jerk, either, but you were just fighting it so hard. Frankly, I’m on your side, politically, on this, I was just unclear whether you were aware of all your options. However, it appears things are more complicated since you are married and have a “household income” that is \> $23K. If you have kids, it’s going to be even more complicated. At any rate, the ACA doesn’t help everyone. In fact, it hurst me, but I think best measure is whether it helps the country as a whole. I’m willing to give it more time to see how things pan out as the entire law gets implemented. I do agree that the requirements for a “qualified plan” are not as flexible as they should be, but that should come as no surprise in legislation that affects 300M people. For better or worse, though, you are going to find it cheaper to pay for insurance than to pay the fine real soon, as I’m sure you know. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-all-conservatives-who-have-bought-into-the-halbig-king-aca-trutherism-nonsense/707625.md?page=7)