# I Pit Allen Keys and Build-It-Yourself Furniture **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 9, 2006, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734 "2006-03-09T20:20:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/21 "2006-03-09T23:25:28Z")
He needs tungsten to live. TUNGSTEN! ---
**Author:** ![Amp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Amp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amp)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/22 "2006-03-09T23:27:08Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Huh? He bought a kit that was supposed to include chairs and a table. I don’t think legs for a table count as “accessories.” Their sort of essential in differentiating a table from a slab of wood, really. Whoosh… ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/23 "2006-03-09T23:31:35Z")
I have put tigether an enormous number of Ikea furniture pieces recently. Buy some hex drivers and use a good cordless screwdriver with a torque setting. Then read and re-read the manual (or look at and re-look at the pictures). Some of the screws can look alike and there is often some gotcha lurking. For example make sure that all the holes are facing the same direction. I like Ikea. I can’t even buy unfinished wood at the prices they charge for things like shelves. The “flat pack” concept really saves money. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 9, 2006, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/24 "2006-03-09T23:47:06Z")
> [@Amp](#): > > Whoosh… :smack: Dur… ---
**Author:** ![D.E.S.K.Top668](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@D.E.S.K.Top668](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D.E.S.K.Top668)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/25 "2006-03-10T00:18:02Z")
I’ll see your allen bolts (a good set of keys can be purchased in almost any hardware store) and raise you [pin head reverse torx (Which can only be found in every third auto parts store, during the full moon.)](http://www.brycefastener.com/tam6lobemac.htm) My 1996 Jeep uses standard fasteners, but most that need to be replaced during servicing are only availaible as these items from hell, which Chrysler started using around '98. It cost me $220 for four brake discs and two sets of pads. It was an additional $90 for a set of drivers for the devil’s own fasteners. If you’re planning on buying more unassembled furniture, buy a set of hex drivers (I’d suggest those with “ball” ends). If you’re planning on buying a newer Chrysler product and working on it yourself, beat yourself about the head and shoulders until the urge passes. Pace - DESK ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/26 "2006-03-10T00:29:59Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > We’ve got slot-head for simple stuff, Phillips screws if you want the driver to be able to cam out, and Robertson if you don’t. And, just to make matters really worse, and screws really buggered, there’s Posidriv, JIS and Reed-Prince. They all look entirely like Phillips until you put a Phillips driver to them and find that the driver is too long and rounds off the top of the screw, or just doesn’t fit well and slips around and boogers up the head, requiring you to either take a hacksaw and convert the screw into a slotted head, try to grab the usually rounded sides with vise-grips or use an easy-out extractor. So, we jam a plain Phillips driver into the hole and hope. It seems odd, but the Phillips was \*\*designed \*\* to cam out if over-torqued. Oh, and along with KD (knock-down) the other abbreviation you’ll see a lot of is RTA - Ready To Assemble. ---
**Author:** ![ErinPuff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dbc845/32.png) [@ErinPuff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ErinPuff)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/27 "2006-03-10T00:45:12Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > I opened this thread thinking that you had spelled [this guy’s](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Keyes) name wrong. Me too. I was thinking, “Wow, he managed to spell _both_ names wrong! …and what does he have to do with furniture?” ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/28 "2006-03-10T00:53:33Z")
> [@Idlewild](#): > > I love Allen keys. On a purely aesthetic basis. They’re one of those weird things that just make me all tingly and happy. Putting together furniture is therefore a treat. > [@DanBlather](#): > > I like Ikea. I can’t even buy unfinished wood at the prices they charge for things like shelves. The “flat pack” concept really saves money. Clearly, we were all separated at birth, or at least share a common father. Any of you L.A. County Dopers need your IKEA furniture put together, I’m there, with hex drivers and rubber mallet in hand. It’s like a grown-up version of the Lego kits I used to snap together in ten minutes on Christmas. You just have to provide the beer/wine. Belgian ales or a good malbec are preferred, but I can be flexible. Torx, on the other hand, is the big suck. I effing hate torx, especially when they get overtorqued or corroded in place and then strip out when you attempt to remove them. And all the bastard children of torx deserve to be orphaned. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/29 "2006-03-10T01:14:00Z")
> [@Futile Gesture](#): > > So buy a proper set of Allan keys and stop using the disposable ones. But make sure to get complete Standard _and_ Metric sets because you can never be sure that the Ikea kit doesn’t have some weird-ass specialized one-off set of hardware and you want to maximize the chances you’ll have a key that at least approximately fits the hole. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/30 "2006-03-10T02:19:15Z")
> [@D.E.S.K.Top668](#): > > [pin head reverse torx (Which can only be found in every third auto parts store, during the full moon.)](http://www.brycefastener.com/tam6lobemac.htm) umm not quite. What you are linking to is a [tamper resistant or anti-tamper torx](http://www.newmantools.com/wiha/w363TRpstar.htm) An external or reverse torx is [shown here (bottom of the page, below standard torx)](http://www.wihatools.com/torxspec.htm) External Torx sockets are so rare they make tamper resistant look down right common. If you can’t find a Snap-On or other tool truck good luck. ---
**Author:** ![D.E.S.K.Top668](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f07891/32.png) [@D.E.S.K.Top668](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D.E.S.K.Top668)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/31 "2006-03-10T02:25:19Z")
> [@Rick](#): > > umm not quite. > What you are linking to is a [tamper resistant or anti-tamper torx](http://www.newmantools.com/wiha/w363TRpstar.htm) > An external or reverse torx is [shown here (bottom of the page, below standard torx)](http://www.wihatools.com/torxspec.htm) > External Torx sockets are so rare they make tamper resistant look down right common. If you can’t find a Snap-On or other tool truck good luck. You are, of course, correct. I blame my tool guy (or the beer) for their terminology. Either way, thanks for fighting my ignorance with your link; Peace - DESK ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/32 "2006-03-10T02:26:44Z")
I am surprised nobody has questioned “Robertson” screwdrivers. My husband still goes ‘huh’? when I ask if he needs a Philips or Robertson screwdriver. ---
**Author:** ![Archergal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c89c15/32.png) [@Archergal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Archergal)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/33 "2006-03-10T02:45:06Z")
> [@GingerOfTheNorth](#): > > I am surprised nobody has questioned “Robertson” screwdrivers. My husband still goes ‘huh’? when I ask if he needs a Philips or Robertson screwdriver. 😕 I just ask for a plus screwdriver or a minus screwdriver. I don’t have any problems with assemble-it-yourself furniture either, as long as they put all the parts in the box. Sometimes they don’t, or they put two of part B and leave out part E. That makes me stomp up and down and swear violently. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/34 "2006-03-10T02:49:49Z")
> [@Archergal](#): > > I don’t have any problems with assemble-it-yourself furniture either, as long as they put all the parts in the box. Sometimes they don’t, or they put two of part B and leave out part E. That’s why I have a little box in the closet that is filled with the extra parts and pieces that have come with our various unassembled furniture over the years. So far, I’ve been able to replace or jury-rig any missing screws or bolts or cams or such. (knocks wood) ---
**Author:** ![pokey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ebca7d/32.png) [@pokey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pokey)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/35 "2006-03-10T02:52:24Z")
What does “cam out” mean? ---
**Author:** ![Booker57](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Booker57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Booker57)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 2:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/36 "2006-03-10T02:53:29Z")
I LOVE Tools As a good (former) mechanic should. E-torx is the proper name for reverse torx. We sell a set of sockets at Advance auto parts. There are a lot of tamper resistant screw heads around. Even the ones that aren’t ment to be, become ones with out the right tools. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/37 "2006-03-10T03:01:07Z")
> [@pokey](#): > > What does “cam out” mean? The bit will pop out of the fastener at some point if you’re applying too much force. The idea is that this will keep you from stripping the head on the screw (that is, chewing up the head so badly that you can no longer get a screwdriver bit to fit). Robertson (square-head) screws are very hard to cam out, by design - the driver head holds the screw head very securely, and the screwhead is pretty strong (much harder to strip it) so that’s not a problem (I just started using squarehead screws and have been very impressed with holding power of the head). In some cases though, you WANT the driver to cam out - for example driving drywall screws it’d be nice to have the driver pop out right as the screw reaches the proper depth. If you over-tighten them you puncture the paper coating and lose holding power. ---
**Author:** ![Valgard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/7feea3/32.png) [@Valgard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Valgard)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/38 "2006-03-10T03:02:23Z")
Oh, and I found my hex-head driver bits at Home Depot, no problem at all. Purchased when assembling a heaping helping of Ikea furniture and got sick of using that tiny little Allen wrench. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/39 "2006-03-10T07:19:59Z")
> [@Archergal](#): > > I just ask for a plus screwdriver or a minus screwdriver. No, the Robertson is a square tip, not a slot head. Invented by Robertson, a Canadian, and supposedly desired by Henry Ford, who saw their utility as fasteners for his cars. Robertson refused to sell his idea (patent? not sure, anybody know?) to Ford, and without the need created by Ford’s usage of them, Robertsons never really took off in the USA. As a result, Americans tend to be woefully ignorant of these great fasteners and the screwdrivers used on them. Common as dirt up here in Canada though. Two sizes (the red and the green), and very easy to use. Allen keys though…I have a number of sets from my pinball tinkering days, and I prefer them to the cheesy ones Ikea hands out. (BTW, **RickJay** , good description.) If your local Home Depot doesn’t have any, try Canadian Tire–my local one has really beefed up their tool department; maybe yours has too. ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2006, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734/40 "2006-03-10T07:23:41Z")
> [@Valgard](#): > > Robertson (square-head) screws … I just started using squarehead screws and have been very impressed with holding power of the head. Let me rephrase myself: Americans may have been woefully ignorant about Robertsons, but it looks like they are learning. Glad to know you like them, **Valgard**! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-allen-keys-and-build-it-yourself-furniture/347734.md?page=3)