# I Pit Amazing Grace Baptist Church **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 23, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908 "2009-10-23T22:34:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/81 "2009-10-25T03:38:57Z")
By your age, I was an agnostic as I am to this day, and I’m not going to say with \*100% certainty \*that your “God” doesn’t exist, (Although if there \*\*were \*\*a “God”, [or “Gods”], I doubt any of us know or have a concept of him, her, or it… it may not even know of our existence either, for all I know). But if your God \*does \*exist, the way \*\*you \*\*interpret him to be, that means he’s a colossal asshole, and wouldn’t deserve my praise. I mean the ego on this God!? ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/82 "2009-10-25T04:41:46Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I’m not stupid. 🙂 Everyone is stupid at 13. We ain’t doin’ so hot at 38, either. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 7:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/83 "2009-10-25T07:06:26Z")
[QUOTE=Curtis LeMay] I am not a Jesus Freak! [/QUOTE] You’re right, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to insult Jesus Freaks, who are usually harmless and loving. [QUOTE=Curtis LeMay] I am just a Christian who’s trying to follow what I believe is truth and you know what, the vast majority of conservative and Evangelical Christians agree with the idea that homosexuality is a sin. [/QUOTE] Yeah, well, good for them too. I don’t believe in god, but damn, sometimes I almost wish I did, because the thought of bigoted assholes trying to get into heaven and god saying “Homosexuals are my children too and you rejected them and made their lives miserable. I didn’t smite you because I wanted to say it to your face…fuck off to hell, you morons” is a really, REALLY delicious thought. > [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > But if your God \*does \*exist, the way \*\*you \*\*interpret him to be, that means he’s a colossal asshole, and wouldn’t deserve my praise. I mean the ego on this God!? No kidding! Which is why it’s even funnier that this gem was in the OP: [QUOTE=Curtis LeMay] These types of Christians have probably turned away more people from Christ and are even more extreme than the parody Landover Baptists Church. [/QUOTE] No, I’d bet YOUR kind of Christianity has turned away more people. If their brand of religion is the Glen Beck of fundies, your brand is the Sarah Palin of fundies, and more people know about Palin than Beck. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/84 "2009-10-25T07:29:50Z")
> [@bup](#): > > No it’s not. Not at all. Yes, it is, it certainly is. When I was growing up in New Mexico when it made the shift in the early 90s to basically being Rock and Roll with a Southern Twang all of the adults who grew up on Lynyrd Skynyrd and such got into country. It even grew out of the same scene around Nashville to a large degree. Elvis and Johnny Cash toured together with Jerry Lee Lewis and played at the Grand Ole Opry. Country music is definitely a subgenre of rock and roll. Maybe not the old kind, but the modern kind without a doubt is. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/85 "2009-10-25T07:31:42Z")
> [@ToeJam](#): > > So you can love someone while silently noting that their souls are going to hell? > Why don’t you care enough about them to do something about this? Or do you condone their fate- in which case- do you really truly like them in the first place? OR is it out of your hands, and you’re just following the orders of your book? > > It’s a very slippery slope, **Curtis** , you can’t have your cheesecake and eat it too. What a silly straw man. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/86 "2009-10-25T09:30:02Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I’m not stupid. 🙂 Cite? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 11:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/87 "2009-10-25T11:56:35Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > At any rate why does everyone think I “hate” homosexuals? I didn’t say I hate or despise homosexuals I just think it’s a sin. As for Jesus; He certainly while loving and caring for all human beings wasn’t an all-permissive “everything is cool with me”. Curtis, unless you pledge allegiance to the Rainbow Flag & whole-heartedly support gay marriage. adoption, & ordination, and gayness being taught in public schools as something healthy & normal, the general consensus of Dopers will be that you’re of the same ilk as the Phelps Family, just a little quieter about it. The KJV phrase “abusers of themselves with mankind” is the translation of the Greek word “arsenokoites”, which literally is “men who bed men”, which sounds pretty clear to me. All the efforts to play word games with the Greek here does not change the fact that for the whole of Judaic and Christian history, until the past sex-saturated century, the consensus of the Synagogue and the Church has been that The Bible, OT & NT, condems homosexual acts. It’s possible that consensus is in error, just as I believe the millenial old beliefs against birth control, for eternal conscious torment in Hell, and for the lifelong virginity of Mary were in error, BUT the burden of proof is on the gay-apologists to show that consensus is not the Biblical teaching. Jesus didn’t preach about homosexuality because he preached to the Jews. It was not a controversial issue in ancient Jewish society. There was no more need to address it than the issues of bestiality & child-sacrifice. (And no, I am NOT equating them.) When the Gospel was preached to the Gentiles, that is when same-sex activity became an issue. Hence the teachings of Paul in Romans 1:26-25 (where lesbianism seems to be addressed, also) & I Corinthians 6. Why do I follow Paul’s writings & much as Jesus’s teachings? Because I believe Jesus called Paul to carry on His Message & that Paul was a faithful and reliable trustee for that calling. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/88 "2009-10-25T13:41:23Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I am completely free to think what is sin and what is not. > > Also while it was a human (Paul) who wrote the Corinthians he certainly was inspired by God and not superseded unlike Mosaic Law. How do you "know’ it was inspired by God? Is it because you were taught it or believe it was? That is not a good argument ,it is not proof,just belief! ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/89 "2009-10-25T13:48:07Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Let’s see some things that are different: > > 1. I do not think the Roman Catholic Church is the “Whore of Babylon” and I don’t think all Catholics are automatically damned, I think there are many, many Catholics who are saved. > > 2. As noted above I am not as puritanical as this church and approve of among other things (mildly) revealing clothing, movies, television, alcohol, and tobacco use. > > 3. I do not think Christians are automatically wrong or damned because of their denomination; it all depends on their PERSONAL belief. > > 4. This church if given the chance will establish a theocracy in the USA with only Christian theology taught in public schools, all alcohol banned (even for religious use!),a nd so on. Good for you,as you use a Book that the Catholic and Orthodox Bishops decided what was the word of God, what God inspired. 325 years after Jesus death. So in doing so you are stating you accept a book that was written, and accepted as the word of God, by people that some state are not Christian! ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/90 "2009-10-25T14:17:14Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Yes, it is, it certainly is. When I was growing up in New Mexico when it made the shift in the early 90s to basically being Rock and Roll with a Southern Twang all of the adults who grew up on Lynyrd Skynyrd and such got into country. > > It even grew out of the same scene around Nashville to a large degree. Elvis and Johnny Cash toured together with Jerry Lee Lewis and played at the Grand Ole Opry. Yes, they did, because country music was established and rock n’ roll wasn’t. You came in to be a smug pedantic asshole and you got your facts wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Pray\_for\_peace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Pray\_for\_peace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pray_for_peace)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/91 "2009-10-25T14:55:56Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I try to convince you in these debates, that is my way of what some would call “missionary work” and thus I am doing something about this. How do you think that’s going? Really. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/92 "2009-10-25T14:57:22Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Country music is definitely a subgenre of rock and roll. Maybe not the old kind, but the modern kind without a doubt is. That is just so silly. It’s like saying Italian food is a sub genre of Hawaiian food because some pizza places put pineapple and Canadian bacon on it. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/93 "2009-10-25T16:04:08Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Curtis, unless you pledge allegiance to the Rainbow Flag & whole-heartedly support gay marriage. adoption, & ordination, and gayness being taught in public schools as something healthy & normal, the general consensus of Dopers will be that you’re of the same ilk as the Phelps Family, just a little quieter about it. Not even gay people consider homosexuality to be normal. Obviously, it’s not; straight people massively outnumber homosexuals. The gay lifestyle isn’t all that healthy either. However, schools should not be teaching that homosexuality is aberrant or shameful, and _that_ is what offends you for some reason. > [@](#): > > The KJV phrase “abusers of themselves with mankind” is the translation of the Greek word “arsenokoites”, which literally is “men who bed men”, which sounds pretty clear to me. Impressive that you’re able to translate a word which Greek scholars can’t. Of course, whether or not the Bible condemns homosexuality ought to be irrelevant in the 21st century, as the Bible is now an irrelevance. Since it isn’t, you should stick to the facts. Teaching Biblical inerrancy is fine, but you ought to be pretty damn sure you understand what you’re teaching, and the simple fact is nobody can be certain what that verse says. > [@](#): > > That is just so silly. It’s like saying Italian food is a sub genre of Hawaiian food because some pizza places put pineapple and Canadian bacon on it. No, it really isn’t. Country music is as much a subgenre of rock and roll as heavy metal or grunge. They all come from the blues. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/94 "2009-10-25T16:26:36Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > The KJV phrase “abusers of themselves with mankind” is the translation of the Greek word “arsenokoites”, which literally is “men who bed men”, which sounds pretty clear to me. Yeah, obviously the translation is clear to you and many others. That’s why there are so many obnoxious and hateful Christians. Problem is, there’s already a word that means men who bed men (androkoites), and that isn’t the one we find. > [@](#): > > All the efforts to play word games with the Greek here does not change the fact that for the whole of Judaic and Christian history, until the past sex-saturated century, the consensus of the Synagogue and the Church has been that The Bible, OT & NT, condems homosexual acts. It’s possible that consensus is in error, just as I believe the millenial old beliefs against birth control, for eternal conscious torment in Hell, and for the lifelong virginity of Mary were in error, BUT the burden of proof is on the gay-apologists to show that consensus is not the Biblical teaching. You’re a discredit to your faith, as is the consensus. Can you speak for yourself or is the tradition the only thing that matters to you? Doesn’t sound much like Jesus’ kind of religion. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/95 "2009-10-25T16:33:18Z")
Not even going to touch the homosexual issues… > [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Country music is as much a subgenre of rock and roll as heavy metal or grunge. They all come from the blues. This would make both country and rock subgenres of the blues, rather than country a subsection of rock. But actually while rock can properly be called a more or less straight line descendant of the blues, country cannot. It’s an older genre, descended as much from Appalachian folk music as anything else. It’s been so heavily cross-pollinated by this point ( including by the blues and eventually by rock and roll ), as with most musical styles really, that you can certainly say it is a kissing cousin to rock. But it certainly isn’t a _subgenre_ of rock. Punk is a subgenre, country is a genre in of itself. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/96 "2009-10-25T16:34:45Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > It’s possible that consensus is in error, just as I believe the millenial old beliefs against birth control, for eternal conscious torment in Hell, and for the lifelong virginity of Mary were in error, BUT the burden of proof is on the gay-apologists to show that consensus is not the Biblical teaching. How convenient for you to pick and choose, claiming you have no choice. ETA: Oh, and country is closely related to (descended from?) bluegrass, though influenced by rock (and vice versa). And apparently, Tamerlane already brought that up. Argh. ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/97 "2009-10-25T18:31:09Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Curtis, unless you pledge allegiance to the Rainbow Flag & whole-heartedly support gay marriage. adoption, & ordination, and gayness being taught in public schools as something healthy & normal, the general consensus of Dopers will be that you’re of the same ilk as the Phelps Family, just a little quieter about it. Yeah, it’s really quite unreasonable how some people on this board just aren’t willing to compromise on the issue of Equal Rights. They are also being unreasonable in not lauding the OP for his pitting of extremely hateful and discriminatory views on the grounds that they make his more moderate hateful and discriminatory views look bad by association. They’re clearly hypocrites for not living up to their supposed ideal of tolerance. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/98 "2009-10-25T18:51:08Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Yeah, it’s really quite unreasonable how some people on this board just aren’t willing to compromise on the issue of Equal Rights. They are also being unreasonable in not lauding the OP for his pitting of extremely hateful and discriminatory views on the grounds that they make his more moderate hateful and discriminatory views look bad by association. They’re clearly hypocrites for not living up to their supposed ideal of tolerance. My point exactly! Thank you! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/99 "2009-10-25T18:53:32Z")
Jesus didn’t seem to specify what version of the Bible to use. God says he will wright His Word on our hearts, so then the version doesn’t matter, it is a matter of the heart, not the mind. As such I believe that God can even use this church, will all it’s flaws (just like He does with the other churches as well). God even used Judaism for Paul and His own Son and somehow, despite man’s best efforts, God was able to reach them there, not to mention all the gentiles and their various religions, that Paul preached to. God can even work through pagan temples and get His message there. ---
**Author:** ![Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jimmy\_Chitwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jimmy_Chitwood)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/100 "2009-10-25T18:56:59Z")
God tells me that there ain’t nothing wrong with being gay. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908.md?page=6)