# I Pit Amazing Grace Baptist Church **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [October 23, 2009, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908 "2009-10-23T22:34:36Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![CanvasShoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/74df32/32.png) [@CanvasShoes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CanvasShoes)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/101 "2009-10-25T19:31:59Z")
I say the same thing about this type, as I say about Rush and his name-calling cohorts. YOU’RE NOT HELPING!!! ---
**Author:** ![ToeJam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dfb087/32.png) [@ToeJam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ToeJam)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/102 "2009-10-25T19:33:45Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > What a silly straw man. Did you just try to scarecrow my thoughts? :dubious: You can’t really make a strawman if there isn’t a debate going on last I checked. Then again, I’m not a master debator, and but at least I’m repentant about that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/103 "2009-10-25T21:15:46Z")
Why would anyone worship a terrorist deity? Forget the devil… the God of the religion I was “born” into, (Christian, Catholic) always seemed to be a selfish and unfair bully who’s got such an ego problem, that he NEEDS us, (his creations), to believe in him, despite all the evidence that he doesn’t exist. I guess he just made it LOOK as if the Earth was a lot older than the Bible claims it to be, (it’s a test, he works in mysterious ways). Why make people suffer? Why give them the power to do something enjoyable that doesn’t hurt anyone, only to tell us we can’t act on it. The Devil’s just a literary ‘red herring’. But to most religious people, you’re on God’s side Satan’s. Telling a kid about hell, and how to NOT go there is child abuse in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/104 "2009-10-25T22:32:00Z")
> [@MyFootsZZZ](#): > > Why would anyone worship a terrorist deity? Forget the devil… the God of the religion I was “born” into, (Christian, Catholic) always seemed to be a selfish and unfair bully who’s got such an ego problem, that he NEEDS us, (his creations), to believe in him, despite all the evidence that he doesn’t exist. I guess he just made it LOOK as if the Earth was a lot older than the Bible claims it to be, (it’s a test, he works in mysterious ways). I think Heinlein answers this nicely in his [Notebooks of Lazarus Long](http://www.puregeek.net/plagiarism/TheNotebooksOfLazarusLong.html) (which are infinitely superior to any religion based moral code I’ve ever read incidentally): > [@](#): > > Men rarely (if ever) manage to dream up a god superior to themselves. Most gods have the manners and morals of a spoiled child. > -Lazarus Long, Time Enough for Love ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/105 "2009-10-25T22:44:56Z")
> [@Sebastienne](#): > > I’m actually curious why, given how the Old Testament is quite rigid on proscribing gender roles, one would think it’s unlikely God would damn someone for being a “sissy” (which could be defined as failure to be proper man in assuming and fulfilling responsibilities, as well as lacking key virtues such as bravery) but homosexuality so obviously must be a capital-S Sin. Even if that was true (there’s not OT law that says Thou Shalt Be Brave or It is Abomination) it doesn’t apply to Christians anymore as it’s been superseded by Jesus and the New Covenent. > [@Equipoise](#): > > You’re right, I’m sorry. I didn’t mean to insult Jesus Freaks, who are usually harmless and loving. And I’m not harmless and loving because…? > [@](#): > > Yeah, well, good for them too. I don’t believe in god, but damn, sometimes I almost wish I did, because the thought of bigoted assholes trying to get into heaven and god saying “Homosexuals are my children too and you rejected them and made their lives miserable. I didn’t smite you because I wanted to say it to your face…fuck off to hell, you morons” is a really, REALLY delicious thought. Have you noticed that it’s always non-religious folks who say this bit about only fundamentalists and Evangelicals being sent to Hell? :dubious: Also if I think say masturbating was a sin does that mean I hate all masturbators and am a bigot? No, just because I think homosexuality is a sin doesn’t mean I’m a bigot; I’m opposed to Don’t Ask Don’t Tell for instance. > [@](#): > > No kidding! Which is why it’s even funnier that this gem was in the OP: > > No, I’d bet YOUR kind of Christianity has turned away more people. If their brand of religion is the Glen Beck of fundies, your brand is the Sarah Palin of fundies, and more people know about Palin than Beck. So unless you become a moral relativist, universalist, ultra-liberal Christian I’m a fundie despite the fact that virtually all Christians before 1965 and the vast majority of Christians to-day would agree with me. > [@FriarTed](#): > > Curtis, unless you pledge allegiance to the Rainbow Flag & whole-heartedly support gay marriage. adoption, & ordination, and gayness being taught in public schools as something healthy & normal, the general consensus of Dopers will be that you’re of the same ilk as the Phelps Family, just a little quieter about it. > > The KJV phrase “abusers of themselves with mankind” is the translation of the Greek word “arsenokoites”, which literally is “men who bed men”, which sounds pretty clear to me. > > All the efforts to play word games with the Greek here does not change the fact that for the whole of Judaic and Christian history, until the past sex-saturated century, the consensus of the Synagogue and the Church has been that The Bible, OT & NT, condems homosexual acts. It’s possible that consensus is in error, just as I believe the millenial old beliefs against birth control, for eternal conscious torment in Hell, and for the lifelong virginity of Mary were in error, BUT the burden of proof is on the gay-apologists to show that consensus is not the Biblical teaching. > > Jesus didn’t preach about homosexuality because he preached to the Jews. It was not a controversial issue in ancient Jewish society. There was no more need to address it than the issues of bestiality & child-sacrifice. (And no, I am NOT equating them.) When the Gospel was preached to the Gentiles, that is when same-sex activity became an issue. Hence the teachings of Paul in Romans 1:26-25 (where lesbianism seems to be addressed, also) & I Corinthians 6. > > Why do I follow Paul’s writings & much as Jesus’s teachings? Because I believe Jesus called Paul to carry on His Message & that Paul was a faithful and reliable trustee for that calling. Thank you for your comment. > [@monavis](#): > > How do you "know’ it was inspired by God? Is it because you were taught it or believe it was? That is not a good argument ,it is not proof,just belief! Saying that it wasn’t inspired by God is also belief as unless there is testimony by Paul that says “God didn’t inspire this”. ---
**Author:** ![MyFootsZZZ](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/myfootszzz/32/12580_2.png) [@MyFootsZZZ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MyFootsZZZ)\ **Post date:** [October 25, 2009, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/106 "2009-10-25T22:45:54Z")
But if there was a “God”, (that we could relate to enough to write about what he wants from us), I wouldn’t know if I would expect it to be ‘selfish’ any less than I would expect it to be ‘just’. I mean, forget all the variations on what “God” could be. Let’s say we were knowingly created by an intelligence we’ve not a concept of, like the God in the Bible. When I think of everything we’re learning, everything science is teaching us, and what may be possible in the future… let’s just say I don’t think there’s a God, or Gods, but the closer we come to be very loosely considered “Gods”, the less I can deny the VERY small possibility of there being one. (WOULD NOT BET ON IT – AND WOULDN’T BET IF THERE WAS ONE, WE WOULD KNOW OF IT) Who’s to say it, her, he, them wouldn’t be bent on power? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/107 "2009-10-26T00:53:32Z")
> [@bup](#): > > Yes, they did, because country music was established and rock n’ roll wasn’t. > > You came in to be a smug pedantic asshole and you got your facts wrong. > [@DanBlather](#): > > That is just so silly. It’s like saying Italian food is a sub genre of Hawaiian food because some pizza places put pineapple and Canadian bacon on it. Go to Nashville sometime. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 1:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/108 "2009-10-26T01:19:26Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Curtis, unless you pledge allegiance to the Rainbow Flag & whole-heartedly support gay marriage. adoption, & ordination, and gayness being taught in public schools as something healthy & normal, the general consensus of Dopers will be that you’re of the same ilk as the Phelps Family, just a little quieter about it. … Uhhh, no. It’s that if you have a problem with > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > … denominations who tolerate homosexuals and even allow homosexual marriages … because > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > … homosexuality is condemned in the New Testament: > 1 Corinithians 6:9-10 (NIV); > > > [@](#): > > > > Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. > > … and don’t equally loudly have a problem denominations (et al.) who tolerate; the sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers, and/or swindlers and the right of; the sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers, and/or swindlers to marry, you will be called by the general consensus of Dopers on you’re lack of consistency. **Curtis LeMay** is more than welcome to cherry-pick his Bible as much as he wants … as long as he uses those cherries for his pies and doesn’t want to put 'em in my pie. CMC fnord! Unrepentant masturbator. > [@Sebastienne](#): > > I’m actually curious why … homosexuality so obviously must be a capital-S Sin. The butt sex, prolly something else too 😕, but mostly the butt sex. (Which given the amount of butt sex in straight porn makes NO sense. Guess it all depends on the gender of the ass getting fucked. :rolleyes:) ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/109 "2009-10-26T01:47:48Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Uhhh, no. > > It’s that if you have a problem withbecauseand don’t equally loudly have a problem denominations (et al.) who tolerate; the sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers, and/or swindlers and the right of; the sexually immoral, idolaters, adulterers, thieves, the greedy, drunkards, slanderers, and/or swindlers to marry, you will be called by the general consensus of Dopers on you’re lack of consistency. > > **Curtis LeMay** is more than welcome to cherry-pick his Bible as much as he wants … as long as he uses those cherries for his pies and doesn’t want to put 'em in my pie. > > CMC fnord! > Unrepentant masturbator. > > The butt sex, prolly something else too 😕, but mostly the butt sex. > (Which given the amount of butt sex in straight porn makes NO sense. Guess it all depends on the gender of the ass getting fucked. :rolleyes:) I wouldn’t mind repentent homosexuals in a church who is trying to break off the sin like say a drunk is trying to quit his habit. ---
**Author:** ![Sebastienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Sebastienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sebastienne)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/110 "2009-10-26T01:49:13Z")
Curtis, the part about the “effeminates” which you say must clearly refer to homosexuals because God would not condemn “sissies” is in the New Testament. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/111 "2009-10-26T01:52:01Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > I wouldn’t mind repentent homosexuals in a church who is trying to break off the sin like say a drunk is trying to quit his habit. Are you talking about so-called “reorientation” therapy? ---
**Author:** ![Gorsnak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gorsnak/32/7587_2.png) [@Gorsnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gorsnak)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/112 "2009-10-26T01:54:54Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Are you talking about so-called “reorientation” therapy? I suspect he just thinks they should be celibate and self-loathing. ---
**Author:** ![Sebastienne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a698b9/32.png) [@Sebastienne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sebastienne)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/113 "2009-10-26T01:56:08Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Are you talking about so-called “reorientation” therapy? Or the “queers are ok as long as they’re chaste and celibate because they recognize their urges are terrible sinful things they must resist” movement. Both are psychologically damaging, though “guilt over wanting to have sex” is a much more common and honest sort of damage than the deep denial and doublethink propagated by the ex-gay movement. ---
**Author:** ![DanBlather](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f4b2a3/32.png) [@DanBlather](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DanBlather)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/114 "2009-10-26T02:15:35Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Go to Nashville sometime. Been there. Grand Ole Opry has been in business since 1927. Rock and Roll only dates back to the 50s. ---
**Author:** ![Tenar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/35a633/32.png) [@Tenar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tenar)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/115 "2009-10-26T02:20:31Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > How do you know if everyone here masturbates? And many will repent in my bet. Also gay posters will not like my views obviously but **I do not choose opinions by popularity**. Bolding mine. Hate to break it to you, **Curtis LeMay** , but this is not necessarily the case. Chances are excellent that you picked up your opinions somewhere where they are very popular, indeed. Then you trotted on over here and “boldly” stated your “daring” opinions on an internet message board. :rolleyes: I realize you are only 13, and are thus expected to be somewhat hard headed and clueless, but please do not delude yourself that you are taking some kind of stand by lecturing about the sinfulness of something you know (presumably)nothing about. Oh, BTW, regarding masturbation, do you really think that there is an all-knowing, all powerful being, who is not only capable of creating the entire universe, but who did, in fact, _create_ the entire universe, but who gives a great flaming damn if people choose to burn off a little excess sexual energy or relieve a little tension by manipulating their own genitals in private for a few minutes? I find that rather remarkable, don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/116 "2009-10-26T02:29:26Z")
I have nothing against 13 year old Christians. It’s their lifestyle I take issue with. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/117 "2009-10-26T04:26:52Z")
> [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > And I’m not harmless and loving because…? Because you sound like one of those dicks who’ll (grow up to) vote for anti-gay measures. Luckily, if you really are 13, you’ve got 5 whole years to become an actual human being with feelings and empathy. You’ve got 5 whole years to maybe get to know some actual gay people and change your mind about them. You’ve got 5 whole years to come out of the closet (if indeed that is your problem). You’ve got 5 whole years where, if none of that happens, your politics and religious views will be even more marginalized than they are now and your vote for bigotry and fellow bigots won’t mean diddly-squat. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Have you noticed that it’s always non-religious folks who say this bit about only fundamentalists and Evangelicals being sent to Hell? :dubious: No, I haven’t noticed, but I’m sure that, if there is a god and a hell, fundies and evangelicals won’t be the _only_ people going to hell. I’m pretty sure $cientologists and reality-show stars will be there too. But really, all you fundivangelicals think you know the mind of god and that he doesn’t love his homosexuals creations too. Isn’t THAT a sin? > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Also if I think say masturbating was a sin does that mean I hate all masturbators and am a bigot? No, it just means you’re really sheltered, were lied to about the matter, and are probably extremely frustrated. > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > No, just because I think homosexuality is a sin doesn’t mean I’m a bigot; I’m opposed to Don’t Ask Don’t Tell for instance. Is that a trick sentence? Does that mean you think homosexuals should be able to serve freely and proudly out in all branches of the military? Or are you opposed to DADT because you don’t think they should be serving at all? > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > So unless you become a moral relativist, universalist, ultra-liberal Christian I’m a fundie despite the fact that virtually all Christians before 1965 and the vast majority of Christians to-day would agree with me. A lot of people thought the earth was flat at one point. A lot of people thought that bloodletting was a valid medical procedure. A lot of people thought that blacks and women were inferior to white men and didn’t deserve equal rights. A lot of people thought a lot of things that most sane people consider ridiculous now. You can scream as much as you want about how your way of life and thinking is rapidly disappearing, but rapidly disappearing it is, and don’t let the door hit your tiny mind on the way out. (though you still have time, unlike Starving Artist) > [@Curtis LeMay](#): > > Saying that it wasn’t inspired by God is also belief as unless there is testimony by Paul that says “God didn’t inspire this”. That’s so funny. ---
**Author:** ![robertliguori](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/46a35a/32.png) [@robertliguori](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robertliguori)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 10:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/118 "2009-10-26T10:59:36Z")
IANABiblicalScholar, Curtis, but have you considered perhaps witnessing to those sinners who are committing adultery in their hearts instead? Oooh, how about the miserly, or those who ignore the plight of the impoverished? Because picking one ‘sin’ you are reasonably sure neither you nor the people in your social group commit regularly looks less like righteousness and more like social in-group bullshit. Just my opinion. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/119 "2009-10-26T12:23:48Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Go to Nashville sometime. Go to Maces Spring, Virginia sometime. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2009, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908/120 "2009-10-26T12:25:05Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Jesus didn’t seem to specify what version of the Bible to use. > > God says he will wright His Word on our hearts, so then the version doesn’t matter, it is a matter of the heart, not the mind. > > As such I believe that God can even use this church, will all it’s flaws (just like He does with the other churches as well). > > God even used Judaism for Paul and His own Son and somehow, despite man’s best efforts, God was able to reach them there, not to mention all the gentiles and their various religions, that Paul preached to. God can even work through pagan temples and get His message there. Jesus didn’t write anything, or tell anyone to write anything. except a few words in the sand that no one seems to remember. You are using your beliefs as proof and that is not proof. You only know or believe what someone who was a human wrote, or told you, was the word of God, so you are really believing in the word of some humans, Not God!! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-amazing-grace-baptist-church/514908.md?page=7)