# I pit anti-gun pediatricians **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 21, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578 "2013-03-21T22:40:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/181 "2013-03-29T20:19:35Z")
Oh. The 2010 AAP policy statement on guidance regarding helping prevent [drowning](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2010/05/24/peds.2010-1264.full.pdf+html). (I think it is accessible to all, not sure. Also a pdf.) 'Tis a valid critique that we should do a better job implementing that one and promoting the items mentioned in that statement than many of us do in our actual practices … not only do more kids actually die from unintentional injuries of drowning each year than unintentional firearm related deaths; it is second only to motor vehicle acidents, above poisoning … and we’re all very good about advising how to keep cabinets locked up and to have the number for poison control handy. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/182 "2013-03-29T21:25:18Z")
Some other fun factoids from my October '11 Peds in Review (been studying for my board recertifiation test coming up): Number one cause of accidental death under age 1 year? Suffocation/choking. Coins, food, toys, dangling cords. As for guns: kids, including those taught to never touch a gun and to find an adult if they find one, when placed in a room with a gun, pick it up and play with it 75% of the time and pull the trigger with enough force to make it go off if it was loaded 50% of time. OTOH 90% of parents believe that their kids would know better. [Project ChildSafe](http://www.projectchildsafe.org/curriculum/) is a recommended resource. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/183 "2013-03-29T22:21:00Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > [Project ChildSafe](http://www.projectchildsafe.org/curriculum/) is a recommended resource. It’s pretty good stuff. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 11:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/184 "2013-03-29T23:16:54Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > …As for guns: kids, including those taught to never touch a gun and to find an adult if they find one, when placed in a room with a gun, pick it up and play with it 75% of the time and pull the trigger with enough force to make it go off if it was loaded 50% of time. OTOH 90% of parents believe that their kids would know better… Damned interesting! Where was this done, and by whom? Interesting cognitive blind spot. I say don’t touch that, he does, and he wishes he hadn’t. I say don’t do this, he does it, and we both wish he hadn’t. Then I tell him don’t ever _ever_ touch that, and figure that settles it. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/185 "2013-03-30T00:37:16Z")
The review article cites [this](http://www.pediatricsdigest.mobi/content/107/6/1247.short) and [this](http://www.pediatricsdigest.mobi/content/111/2/e109.short). ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 1:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/186 "2013-03-30T01:31:59Z")
All boys. Swell. Just what we need, more bad press. The results should have been suppressed. Way to backstab the bros, guys. And the “Kellermann” listed as an author? Same guy herein identified as half Baron Munchausen and half AntiChrist? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/187 "2013-03-30T01:40:59Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > All boys. Swell. Just what we need, more bad press. The results should have been suppressed. Way to backstab the bros, guys. > > And the “Kellermann” listed as an author? Same guy herein identified as half Baron Munchausen and half AntiChrist? Of course there are always incidents like this: https://www.youtube.com/embed/LQcoNr6ZIEc?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 4:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/188 "2013-03-30T04:12:35Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > In all honesty, I find comments like this from you to be disappointing. You seem like an otherwise decent and intelligent person. When it comes to this issue, though, you seem indistinguishable from Kable. I would hope that would be troubling to you. I think there is a lot of daylight between Kable and me. We both oppose retarded legislation like an AWB. I actively support licensing and registration, Kable could be brought to support it if it came with national carry priveleges and a repeal the ban on some NFA weapons (lets say everything except the machine gun and explosives). I think it is the people who would undercut one of the fundamental rights protected in the bill of rights who must explain why their restrictions are ok. We dont hold the same position but we both feel that there is an effort to demonize guns beyond their danger to society. I think we both feel that there are positive aspects to guns that are almost entirely ignored by the other side of the argument. I think we both feel that people are treating the second amendment as the red headed step-child of the bill of rights. I didnt really grow up around guns. I grew up in NYC where only cops and robbers had guns. I learned to shoot in the boy scouts at 10 or 12. I didnt touch another gun until the LA riots. I saw cops driving away from rioters coming to burn down my neighborhood. They burned down half the neighborhood before some guy showed up with a pickup truck full of guns and then the looting stopped. I dont live in a neighborhood where I can justify owning a gun purely based on self defense and I didnt try to overthrow the government under Bush idont think I ever will. But I am not going to tell the next group of riot victims that they have to watch from afar as rioting armed criminals destroy their lives. The guns that protectedy neighbirhood werent nightstand revolvers, there were some pistols along with shotguns and hunting rifles but there were mostly what California called assault weapons. California eventually confiscated these weapons. I thought that was bullshit and only diaarmed law abiding citizens without doing anything to reduce gun violence. > [@](#): > > In any event, is it possible that we do have the facts? Or to put it another way, that to a greater or lesser extent the facts tend to support the gun control position? > > It seems that you’re just turning blinders to the facts that have been presented to you. I dont think so. I support licensing and registration. I oppose bans. I havent seen very much suppprt for gun bans being good for anything. You want to talk about whether guns in society are good or bad, then fine but when dealing with the real world, one with 350 milllion guns in this country, a gun ban serves lttle to no purpose other than to make current gun owners rich. > [@](#): > > BTW the physicians most likely to ask about gun ownership and to promote safe storage are not those who want to make firearms illegal, but the physicians [who are gun owners themselves](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1446378/). Makes sense. Thats not what you link seems to be saying. > [@elucidator](#): > > When you’ve been here a while, you’ll likely catch on. Even if you can’t remember every Doper’s position on every issue, you get a general sort of sense about relative reasonability. **DA** has a rep for being more or less reasonable, so his stubborn refusal to review and reconsider his opinions is unusual, noteworthy. > > Now, if **Kable** comes in and starts raving about Batboy marrying Chupacabra, not a single fuck will be given. SOP. But bless his heart, doesn’t know any better. I wonder how much of that has to do with my liberal positilns on almost every other issue. I consider anyone who supports an AWB either ignorant, unreasonable or more interested in making a point than making a difference. I support meaningful gun regulation that gets guns out of the hands of criminals. I consider the medical.profession generally hostile to firearms due to the lethality of firearms. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/189 "2013-03-30T04:38:03Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Thats not what you link seems to be saying. 😕 It seems to be saying: > [@the article](#): > > physician gun owners are more likely than nonowners to report counseling patients about firearm safety which I find hard to interpret as anything other than saying that physicians who own guns are more likely to ask about gun ownership and promote gun safety. What do you think that sentence means? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/190 "2013-03-30T08:01:16Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > … I consider the medical.profession generally hostile to firearms due to the lethality of firearms. Lot of folks think that’s a pretty good reason. Kinda lean that way myself. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 30, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/191 "2013-03-30T13:16:54Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I think there is a lot of daylight between Kable and me. Gun grabber! ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/192 "2013-03-31T13:20:14Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Gun grabber! From what I can tell Damuri Ajashi doesn’t want to grab guns. We just disagree on some stuff. See how that works. As for the rest of you gun grabbers, you’re not fooling anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 2:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/193 "2013-03-31T14:52:54Z")
> [@April\_R](#): > > I get that every time I have to go in to Labor and Delivery with contractions (3 times now). It’s standard procedure at least in hospital admissions, and they ask it without your significant other in the room. Fierra and I fence with historical weapons. These are real swords which are blunted, which means they are stiff and heavy, and they hurt and leave bruises. Furthermore, we do women’s self-defense training, full-strength, which leaves bruises on our wrists, arms, and neck sometimes. Fierra was ALWAYS asked by nurses and doctors if she felt “safe” around me, safe at home, or “wanted to talk about she got the bruises.” Sometimes they wouldn’t believe her until she pulled our her phone and showed them video of her fighting. But when I presented male, not one fucking person ever cared about the bruises that peppered my body. No one ever asked about the finger marks on my neck, or the big yellow-purple marks which look like punches on my arms. But when I transitioned to female (and yes, I pass 110%) all of a sudden people were veeeeeeeery interested in my bruises and other injuries. I pointed this out during one appointment, and the nurse airily said “well come on…women don’t beat up men!” It really is taking longer than we thought. ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/194 "2013-03-31T14:59:50Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > As the op of [the inverse of this Pit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=607591), about the attempt of state of Florida to make such questions by pediatricians _against the law_, let me provide one pediatrician’s perspective. I remember that thread. I remember I treated you like shit in there, and even seeing the thread still fills me with shame. In my defense I was in full-blown depression then which led to my near suicide last July, so I wasn’t too rational at times. I think I apologized to you via PM a few months ago, but in case I was remiss, I unconditionally apologize to you now for my shitty, bitchy, and irrational behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/195 "2013-03-31T16:33:33Z")
Well, I learned a lot about **Una** in this thread. That’s a plus. ---
**Author:** ![Docta\_G](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/2bfe46/32.png) [@Docta\_G](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Docta_G)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/196 "2013-03-31T16:36:29Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > thats mostly because you’re retarded > > Would you feel the same way if it was a religious nut giving you the advice? You are assuming the advice was offered in a neutral tone. > > I wouldnt be pitting them if th3y brought up all the things that were More dangerous for kidsinsteadof over-emphasizing the risk of guns. > > I dont fear pools. I have a pool. If obstetricians habitually overemohasized the risk of abortions, I bet this board would be up in arms. > > Thats because you’re a lemming and don’t think for yourself. > > And when so many more kids die from drowning in pools, why is there so much more (negative) emphasis on guns? > > Because the facts are against them and liberals arent used to that. > > OR they arent constitutional ly protected. > > Are you implying that starting a pit thread means I am eager to fly off the handle? > > A lot of it is context. > > Context and tone > No its not. The nra stifled research that promotes gun control. Neutral data collection is fine as evidenced by cdc dtat collection of gun death and injury. Learn the facts. > > No, people like you did. > > You only think that because your are a retard. > > The law doesnt prevent gun manufacturers from being sued, it prevents gun manufacturers from being sued for the negligent or criminal acts of others. Gun manufacturers get sued, mostly by gun owners who bought a defective > > You are correct. Thanks for the correction. The order of magnitude by which pools accidentally outkill little kids is more like 15 to 1 instead of 70 fo 1. As I said … ---
**Author:** ![Una\_Persson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/una_persson/32/346_2.png) [@Una\_Persson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Una_Persson)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/197 "2013-03-31T16:36:47Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Well, I learned a lot about **Una** in this thread. That’s a plus. I live to please. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 31, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/198 "2013-03-31T22:33:17Z")
Una you had indeed already apologized and doing so here is completely unnecessary. I am glad you are better and hope that the medical issues you had been dealing with have also completely resolved. And that you are still enjoying dancing now! You are a class act. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/199 "2013-04-02T22:29:23Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > 😕 > It seems to be saying:which I find hard to interpret as anything other than saying that physicians who own guns are more likely to ask about gun ownership and promote gun safety. > > What do you think that sentence means? You’re reading from the abstract. gun ownership doesn’t seem to have a bearing on whether the physician thinks that safety counseling is appropriate (its seems to be generally popular among all physicians). > [@](#): > > Survey participants believed that it is appropriate for doctors to provide safety counseling to patients. Ninety-three percent of the survey population agreed that “safety counseling is appropriate provider behavior.” This agreement existed equally among physicians who were gun owners and members of firearms > clubs and those who were not. Physicians who own guns (and’or are members of gun clubs) are less likely to support physician involvement in a lot of safety and violence issues. > [@](#): > > Physicians with higher gun scores were also less likely to agree with the following statements: “Safety training should be required for anyone wanting to buy a gun”; “The American College of [Physicians/Surgeons] should make violence prevention a priority”; and “Firearm injury is a public health issue.” We > developed logistic regression models in which responses to these statements served as dependent variables and physicians’ gun scores served as a predictor variable. In each of these regression models, **the physician’s gun score > was a significant predictor of nonsupport for the idea of physician involvement in firearm injury prevention** and nonagreement with the view that firearm injury is a public health problem (Table 1). Despite all that, they also tend to do more firearms injury prevention counseling than average. > [@](#): > > physician self-reports of providing such counseling to patients as our dependent variable, both the gun-score variable and the scaled propensity > to counsel variable were predictors of higher reported rates of firearm injury prevention counseling (Table 2). So, physicians that own guns are more likely to ask about guns but they are also less likely to believe that its any of their business. So I guess you are correct but your statement from the abstract is not the entire story. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2013, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/200 "2013-04-03T01:12:51Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > … they also tend to do more firearms injury prevention counseling than average. > > So, physicians that own guns are more likely to ask about guns but they are also less likely to believe that its any of their business. … It’s the part of the story relevant to the question of which physicians are more likely to ask about gun ownership and to promote safe storage. You are correct that there is some irony there: the docs most likely to engage in that counselling behavior are the same docs who feel that docs shouldn’t be engaging in that counselling behavior. But what they do is what they do. I can’t explain the disconnect (although I have some speculations) but again, the docs most likely to aks about guns and counsel about firearm safety are those who own firearms themselves. A pretty straightforward statement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578.md?page=11)