# I pit anti-gun pediatricians **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 21, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578 "2013-03-21T22:40:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/301 "2013-04-13T02:32:32Z")
Our op was, see post 27, mainly interested in covering issues regarding the under 4 crowd. But sure well supervised shooting range or hunting for older kids is a family fun/bonding benefit … aerobic fitness though? Not comparable to swimming albeit better than videogames. I won’t spend pages arguing the point but my read is that the benefit of defensive gun use in a household setting is even more overestimated (and even more driven by irrational hysterical fear) than are the risks of accidental gun deaths. I do concede overstating: significantly less direct benefit to the child from a household gun and in many households none. I should have stated: “The gun not so much so.” Lumpy, talk about hysteria. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/302 "2013-04-13T03:45:39Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > I won’t spend pages arguing the point but my read is that the benefit of defensive gun use in a household setting is even more overestimated (and even more driven by irrational hysterical fear) than are the risks of accidental gun deaths. Say the benefits of defensive gun uses were only 90% of risk of accidental gun deaths. The numbers would still be offsetting would they not? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/303 "2013-04-13T04:06:41Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Say the benefits of defensive gun uses were only 90% of risk of accidental gun deaths. The numbers would still be offsetting would they not? But not nearly so attractive if the benefits were only 2% of risk. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 4:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/304 "2013-04-13T04:30:12Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > But not nearly so attractive if the benefits were only 2% of risk. What are the stats on defensive gun use again? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/305 "2013-04-13T10:04:48Z")
Somewhere on YouTube? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/306 "2013-04-13T11:03:35Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Say the benefits of defensive gun uses were only 90% of risk of accidental gun deaths. The numbers would still be offsetting would they not? Yes, if there were, 56 it would be, children each year whose lives were saved by defensive gun use in the home each year that would be an offsetting number. I believe that the numbers are far far less than that (there are not even close to that many kids killed in home burglaries gone bad or home invasions), and that the risk of a death in the home because of a gun (both accidental and because of easier ability to act on a violent impulse to self or others) is much greater than the benefit of defending against the imagined, or at least anecdotal, boogeyman, but really, I have been there and done that, have no desire to go into a pages of debate over it. If you believe that there are many boogeymen out there then you have, if nothing else, a psychological benefit gained by the sense that a gun will somehow protect you. Just please keep it stored safely. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/307 "2013-04-13T13:15:12Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yes, if there were, 56 it would be, children each year whose lives were saved by defensive gun use in the home each year that would be an offsetting number. I believe that the numbers are far far less than that (there are not even close to that many kids killed in home burglaries gone bad or home invasions), and that the risk of a death in the home because of a gun (both accidental and because of easier ability to act on a violent impulse to self or others) is much greater than the benefit of defending against the imagined, or at least anecdotal, boogeyman, but really, I have been there and done that, have no desire to go into a pages of debate over it. If you believe that there are many boogeymen out there then you have, if nothing else, a psychological benefit gained by the sense that a gun will somehow protect you. Just please keep it stored safely. Imagined? [![](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/VPfz7ENFUB0/hqdefault.jpg?sqp=-oaymwEmCOADEOgC8quKqQMa8AEB-AH-BIAC6AKKAgwIABABGD0gWyhlMA8=&rs=AOn4CLCjsr8sD5MCvdvalDLAR6b2WWrUyg "12-Year-Old Girl Shoots Intruder (As Seen On DRUDGE)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPfz7ENFUB0) Well, maybe the invader was only going to rape her and not kill her, so she wouldn’t have shown up in your statistics. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/308 "2013-04-13T13:16:17Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Somewhere on YouTube? What’s wikipedia say? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/309 "2013-04-13T13:41:52Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > What’s wikipedia say? > **[Anxiety disorder](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anxiety_disorder)** > > Anxiety disorders are a group of mental disorders characterized by significant and uncontrollable feelings of anxiety and fear such that a person's social, occupational, and personal functions are significantly impaired. Anxiety may cause physical and cognitive symptoms, such as restlessness, irritability, easy fatigue, difficulty concentrating, increased heart rate, chest pain, abdominal pain, and a variety of other symptoms that may vary based on the individual. > In casual discourse, the wor... ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/310 "2013-04-13T14:00:52Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > [Anxiety disorder - Wikipedia](http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anxiety_disorder) You have anxiety? Is that why they won’t let you have guns, or is that why you fear them? Maybe it’s caused by low testosterone levels. You should get that checked out. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/311 "2013-04-13T19:04:33Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Imagined? > > [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPfz7ENFUB0](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPfz7ENFUB0) > > Well, maybe the invader was only going to rape her and not kill her, so she wouldn’t have shown up in your statistics. > [@DSeid](#): > > the imagined, or at least anecdotal, boogeyman Yes, that qualifies under the second part of the clause. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/312 "2013-04-13T20:46:16Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > Yes, that qualifies under the second part of the clause. Oh yeah, anecdotal evidence, like that famous incident in the news that got some pediatricians all excited. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [April 13, 2013, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/313 "2013-04-13T22:42:29Z")
You _have_ noticed that my position has been to discount anecdotes on that side of the equation and to agree with the point that DA had made (sans of the hyperbole and the silly point that failing to better promote pool safety equals being anti-gun) that such anecdotes have led some to overestimate the risk that home gun ownership entails? So yes “like that famous incident” but with _even less_ actual basis in rational risk/benefit assessment, and _even more_ driven primarily by irrational fear. That point help your argument in some way? But perhaps my testosterone levels are too low for you. I am male but I work with kids and cook too even. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/314 "2013-04-14T03:04:44Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > the silly point that failing to better promote pool safety equals being anti-gun) I don’t think that is my point. My point is that the relative focus pediatricians put on pools versus guns demonstrates an anti-gun or at least an gun-phobic attitude. > [@](#): > > I… cook too even. You should ask my wife, she never cooks even. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 3:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/315 "2013-04-14T03:28:24Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I saw a summary of that report and it was counterintuitive to me. How does having a gun safe not affect the rate of gun accidents by a huge margin? Are children just natural safecrackers or do people with gun safes also tend to keep at least one gun outside the safe within reach of curious children? I don’t get it, I keep my firearms in the safe and I the rest in biometric gun safes when not in use. The little buggers are natural born safe crackers ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/316 "2013-04-14T14:35:59Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > My pediatrician discourages too much TV and fast food too. I don’t see where they are trying to get trampolines banned at the federal level. Why the special effort for guns? Still don’t see any answer to my two questions: 1. Cite that pediatricians are looking to ban guns on the federal level 2. How can you be sure the pediatrician doesn’t ask about guns of patients that she thinks are likely to have guns, and pools in patients that she thinks have pools? and a followup question: 2a) Do you, **Damuri Ajashi** , have a pool\*? 'Cause if you don’t, then I’m thinking your pediatrician asked the appropriate question of the appropriate patient, and then you went off your head about it. - I don’t recall you having mentioned having a pool. If you have answered this, my apologies, and my thanks for re-answering it ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/317 "2013-04-14T16:32:54Z")
Terrible terrible trouble, right here in River City, trouble that starts with “T” which rhymes with “P” which they do in your pool! Monorail!.. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [April 14, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/318 "2013-04-14T23:21:31Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > You have anxiety? Is that why they won’t let you have guns, or is that why you fear them? Maybe it’s caused by low testosterone levels. You should get that checked out. You do understand, Kable, that this is why people think all your guns are actually about defining your manhood and ego defense, and all your talk about constitutionally protected self defense is just eyewash? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/319 "2013-04-15T01:57:00Z")
Oh, enough! So mad I could just spit! I’m going antiquing, and then to Bloomies! ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [April 15, 2013, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/320 "2013-04-15T19:02:24Z")
Huh, **Damuri Ajashi** hasn’t come back. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578.md?page=17)