# I pit anti-gun pediatricians **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 21, 2013, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578 "2013-03-21T22:40:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Polyhedron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@Polyhedron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polyhedron)\ **Post date:** [March 28, 2013, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/161 "2013-03-28T23:21:13Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > in 2009, of the 114 accidental deaths of children, 66 were in the 15-19 year category leaving 48 in the 14 and under category. Compare that to **3500 accidental drownings of children under 14 every year**. Bolding mine. You’ve misread the CDC site. [[http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/water-safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html](http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/water-safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html)](According to the CDC) there are approximately 3500 unintentional non-boating related drownings per year, total. Of these, approximately 700 are children under the age of 14. The relevant quotes from the CDC page are > [@](#): > > Every day, about ten people die from unintentional drowning. Of these, two are children aged 14 or younger. > > From 2005-2009, there were an average of 3,533 fatal unintentional drownings (non-boating related) annually in the United States — about ten deaths per day. > > About one in five people who die from drowning are children 14 and younger. However, the CDC also notes that for every child (under 14) fatality, approximately 5 receive emergency care for non-fatal drownings. Is this the 3500 figure you are intending to reference? ---
**Author:** ![overlyverbose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/9dc877/32.png) [@overlyverbose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/overlyverbose)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/162 "2013-03-29T02:47:40Z")
> [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > See, it’s weird to me that you would not accept safety advice from a medical professional just because they may not be a gun owner. Is the advice different? Or you just don’t like being told what to do by people who don’t share your hobbies, which may or may not result in the death of your children? I find this strange, too. I’ve never asked my doc to sign an attestation confirming that she has suffered a concussion from falling off a bike while failing to wear a helmet, yet I’m not offended if she asks whether my son and daughter use one while riding a bike. I don’t understand why asking about safety = political agenda. Isn’t safety directly linked to health? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/163 "2013-03-29T02:50:59Z")
Your first visit to America? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/164 "2013-03-29T07:08:06Z")
> [@panaccione](#): > > Also, someone who makes a pit thread about something like this certainly pings my radar on the dumb gun owner list. thats mostly because you’re retarded > [@Waenara](#): > > It’s kind of mind-boggling to me that someone would assume that a doctor giving a pamphlet about gun safety must necessarily be “anti-gun”. I could very easily imagine that someone who is ardently pro-gun would want families to be as safe as possible with their gun handling and storage to prevent accidents. > > Even if the pamphlet also contains a sentence stating that the easiest way to prevent gun accidents with kids is not to have guns in the home, that’s just a fact. A good analogy would be abstince-only education Would you feel the same way if it was a religious nut giving you the advice? You are assuming the advice was offered in a neutral tone. > [@MandaJo](#): > > So if they had asked about guns and pools, and given you safety information about both, would you have been grateful for both those things? This is really a pit thread about “Why doesn’t my pediatrician care about my kid drowning?” Because if so, I honestly think you should bring it up with him and be like “I really wish you would talk to parents about this!” I wouldnt be pitting them if th3y brought up all the things that were More dangerous for kidsinsteadof over-emphasizing the risk of guns. > [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > I’m thinking if the OP really gave a damn about child safety, he’d get off the internet and work to free his homeland from the insidious onslaught of evil pools. He really fears the freaking pools. I dont fear pools. I have a pool. If obstetricians habitually overemohasized the risk of abortions, I bet this board would be up in arms. > [@Enkel](#): > > OMG, I was thinking the same thing! Thats because you’re a lemming and don’t think for yourself. > [@ToeJam](#): > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=686338](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=686338) > Just a link to the other Pit Thread that is related to this one… > > It’s a shame, but this is why they take the 60 seconds to ask the question and remind people the gun safety question, because every one of these mishaps that can be prevented is worth plenty of other complaining parents. And when so many more kids die from drowning in pools, why is there so much more (negative) emphasis on guns? > [@Debaser](#): > > Why the hostility? Because the facts are against them and liberals arent used to that. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > The problem is that pets and bathtubs are not crucial elements of anyone’s sense of self. OR they arent constitutional ly protected. > [@Bridget\_Burke](#): > > Guns might be more dangerous in a household where one of the adults is eager to fly off the handle at small provocations… Are you implying that starting a pit thread means I am eager to fly off the handle? > [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > Wait, why is it that safety and accident prevention when presented by pediatricians is automatically bad, but when presented by the NRA it’s automatically good? A lot of it is context. > [@](#): > > The reason gun owners are skeptical of receiving gun safety information from pediatricians is because the NRA says they should be. There is no qualitative difference between your doctor’s office saying “keep your guns locked up and away from kids” and the NRA saying “keep your guns locked up and away from kids”, except that when the doctor says it they’re being “anti-gun” and when the NRA says it, they’re “taking a responsible step towards encouraging gun safety”. Context and tone > [@DoctorJ](#): > > Not really, because this is precisely the sort of research that has been stifled by the gun lobby. No its not. The nra stifled research that promotes gun control. Neutral data collection is fine as evidenced by cdc dtat collection of gun death and injury. Learn the facts. > [@ladyfoxfyre](#): > > You’re right. Our secret agenda is to have as many kids die as possible so we can ban guns so no kids die anymore. Did your local NRA safety meeting teach you that? No, people like you did. > [@Docta\_G](#): > > Anyone dumb enough to start a thread like this is probably too dumb to own a gun. Or a vacuum cleaner. You only think that because your are a retard. > [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > No, I pretty much said the opposite of this. > > The NRA represents gun manufacturers interests. > > ETA: Even better evidence than what you provided is that they receive millions from gun manufacturers, and that they once described their biggest priority as getting a law passed that prevents gun manufacturers from being sued. The law doesnt prevent gun manufacturers from being sued, it prevents gun manufacturers from being sued for the negligent or criminal acts of others. Gun manufacturers get sued, mostly by gun owners who bought a defective > [@Polyhedron](#): > > Bolding mine. > > You’ve misread the CDC site. [[http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/water-safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html](http://www.cdc.gov/homeandrecreationalsafety/water-safety/waterinjuries-factsheet.html)](According to the CDC) there are approximately 3500 unintentional non-boating related drownings per year, total. Of these, approximately 700 are children under the age of 14. > > The relevant quotes from the CDC page are > > However, the CDC also notes that for every child (under 14) fatality, approximately 5 receive emergency care for non-fatal drownings. Is this the 3500 figure you are intending to reference? You are correct. Thanks for the correction. The order of magnitude by which pools accidentally outkill little kids is more like 15 to 1 instead of 70 fo 1. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 11:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/165 "2013-03-29T11:26:50Z")
See, this is just the kind of honest, thoughtful debate that’s going to lead us to a mutual understanding and compromise. And those stupid retard fanatic assholes with shit for brains said it couldn’t be done! ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 11:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/166 "2013-03-29T11:53:03Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > See, this is just the kind of honest, thoughtful debate that’s going to lead us to a mutual understanding and compromise. And those stupid retard fanatic assholes with shit for brains said it couldn’t be done! Whoa! Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here. The stats above are misrepresenting the role of pools! They include open water, bathtub and other drownings, but then blame them all on pools! I’m going to lobby congress to stop funding the CDC’s study of drownings. They are clearly anti-pool. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/167 "2013-03-29T12:58:55Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > I’m going to lobby congress to stop funding the CDC’s study of drownings. They are clearly anti-pool. Do you think we should outlaw pools? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 1:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/168 "2013-03-29T13:11:29Z")
I’m on record as saying we should. Along with forks, gas barbecue grills, electric hand dryers, toothpicks without rubber safety caps, bags of hammers and whatever else you’re lugging around in your Analogy Box. Whatever it takes to convince you to go somewhere dark and quiet where you can polish your barrel to your heart’s content. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/169 "2013-03-29T13:33:07Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > I’m on record as saying we should. Along with forks, gas barbecue grills, electric hand dryers, toothpicks without rubber safety caps, bags of hammers and whatever else you’re lugging around in your Analogy Box. Whatever it takes to convince you to go somewhere dark and quiet where you can polish your barrel to your heart’s content. But you’re lying. ---
**Author:** ![MandaJo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac91a4/32.png) [@MandaJo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MandaJo)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/170 "2013-03-29T13:45:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I wouldnt be pitting them if th3y brought up all the things that were More dangerous for kidsinsteadof over-emphasizing the risk of guns. Would you mind giving me the complete list of things that would have to be mentioned prior to the mention of guns before you felt the question about guns was sincere? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 2:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/171 "2013-03-29T14:30:59Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > But you’re lying. No, sir, I assure you I am wholly sincere in my wish that you would go the fuck away. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/172 "2013-03-29T14:32:28Z")
> [@VinylTurnip](#): > > No, sir, I assure you I am wholly sincere in my wish that you would go the fuck away. You all should quit with the dumb comments then.🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/173 "2013-03-29T15:12:10Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > You all should quit with the dumb comments then.🙂 When it comes to guns, they are incapable of doing so. They are so used to having the facts on their side that they don’t know what to do when they don’t. It fills them with impotent rage so they just resort to calling us poopyheads. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/174 "2013-03-29T15:17:40Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > When it comes to guns, they are incapable of doing so. They are so used to having the facts on their side that they don’t know what to do when they don’t. It fills them with impotent rage so they just resort to calling us poopyheads. In all honesty, I find comments like this from you to be disappointing. You seem like an otherwise decent and intelligent person. When it comes to this issue, though, you seem indistinguishable from Kable. I would hope that would be troubling to you. In any event, is it possible that we do have the facts? Or to put it another way, that to a greater or lesser extent the facts tend to support the gun control position? It seems that you’re just turning blinders to the facts that have been presented to you. ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/175 "2013-03-29T15:24:30Z")
As the op of [the inverse of this Pit](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=607591), about the attempt of state of Florida to make such questions by pediatricians _against the law_, let me provide one pediatrician’s perspective. There is a [long list](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/118/4/e964.short) of things that we pediatricians “should” be talking about and promoting. That linked critique of the overwhelming nature of that list misses the reality: Different items are most important to discuss within any particular community or demographic. Problem is pediatricians aren’t always much better at understanding which items actually translate to the most potential benefit for the effort expended. Some of us also have more interest in promoting some issues than others. I tend to harp on bike helmets for example, and preventing obesity. In a community, or a subgroup of a community, in which gun ownership is high, promoting the safe storage of guns takes but a few seconds and can [make a difference](http://jabfm.org/content/16/1/40.short) in some cases. In [some states](http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/116/3/e370.short) over 7% of households with children under 18 years old contain loaded unlocked firearms. I know that statements like this one: > [@](#): > > Store guns so that they are inaccessible to children and other unauthorized users. Gun shops sell a wide variety of safes, cases, and other security devices. While specific security measures may vary, a parent must, in every case, assess the exposure of the firearm and absolutely ensure that it is inaccessible to a child. may seem ananthema to some gun owners … but it does come off [the NR](http://eddieeagle.nra.org/information-for-parents.aspx)A website. Yes a pediatrician might also state that a household without a gun in it is safer than one with one. And will also encourage storing the ammunition somewhere other than the same place the gun is stored. BTW the physicians most likely to ask about gun ownership and to promote safe storage are not those who want to make firearms illegal, but the physicians [who are gun owners themselves](http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1446378/). Makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/176 "2013-03-29T18:28:49Z")
> [@L. G. Butts](#): > > Weak sauce OP, I give it a 1. > > Look, you want to keep your guns and get an M16 or whatever, fine. I don’t give a shit. But you pit your pediatrician because he asks you about guns, just lame. If he asks you about seat belts, what are you going to do then? > > Where do you live anyway? How common are swimming pools there? I live in an affluent neighborhood i n Denver, and I would bet that not one house in 50 has pools in this town , probably more like 1 in 200, but I bet at least 30% of the houses in this rich republican enclave have guns… should I pit my pediatrician? > > Dude, there is plenty of bullshit in this world to get annoyed at, including politians passing stupid gun control laws for political gain that won’t do shit, but pitting your kid’s doctor is just fucking dumb. Swimming pool safety is something to be concerned about, you also dont need to own a swimming pool to be exposed to the danger of drowning. A family that has no pool could be invited to a party where there is a pool, for example, go to the beach, lake, or a community pool, be invited to play at a friends house that has a pool etc ---
**Author:** ![Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b38774/32.png) [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Attack_from_the_3rd_dimension)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/177 "2013-03-29T18:42:43Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > When it comes to guns, they are incapable of doing so. They are so used to having the facts on their side that they don’t know what to do when they don’t. It fills them with impotent rage so they just resort to calling us poopyheads. Poolyheads. ---
**Author:** ![Tollhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e99b99/32.png) [@Tollhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tollhouse)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/178 "2013-03-29T18:47:23Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > In all honesty, I find comments like this from you to be disappointing. You seem like an otherwise decent and intelligent person. When it comes to this issue, though, you seem indistinguishable from Kable. I would hope that would be troubling to you. > > In any event, is it possible that we do have the facts? Or to put it another way, that to a greater or lesser extent the facts tend to support the gun control position? > > It seems that you’re just turning blinders to the facts that have been presented to you. Oh God, I hate this tactic…tell the person that you know they are intelligent, and how your disappointed they did not say whatever it is that promotes your own belief. Its so patronizing "I just know your smarter than this (to believe something I dont) ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/179 "2013-03-29T19:06:58Z")
When you’ve been here a while, you’ll likely catch on. Even if you can’t remember every Doper’s position on every issue, you get a general sort of sense about relative reasonability. **DA** has a rep for being more or less reasonable, so his stubborn refusal to review and reconsider his opinions is unusual, noteworthy. Now, if **Kable** comes in and starts raving about Batboy marrying Chupacabra, not a single fuck will be given. SOP. But bless his heart, doesn’t know any better. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [March 29, 2013, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578/180 "2013-03-29T19:27:35Z")
> [@Attack\_from\_the\_3rd\_dimension](#): > > Poolyheads. Noodle-grabbers. :mad: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-anti-gun-pediatricians/653578.md?page=10)