# I Pit Aspidistra **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 10, 2022, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847 "2022-03-10T21:10:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/1 "2022-03-10T21:10:09Z")
[I just tried to open an ATMB thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspidistra-finds-loophole-in-hate-speech-rules/960843) to discuss a question I had about a recent post of Aspidistra’s, which I was specifically encouraged to do by a mod, puzzlegal, when I approached her with my question. But now another mod has closed that thread because it seemed like a “pitting”. This doesn’t make much sense to me as the thread was asking a question about board policy and mentioned Aspidistra’s post only as an example of what I was asking about. However, that mod action deprived me of the opportunity to respond to Aspidistra’s disingenous response to my OP, so here we are. > I think it’s a real problem if a person’s first-hand account of what has happened to them and their family is accounted “hate speech” and deleted from major platforms, and then anywhere that is willing to link their story is disallowed from being linked to and talked about. Don’t you? > > You should tell me what in that mother’s talk you consider “hate”. Feel free to provide quotes. > > Then if you consider me radicalised on this subject you should ask what radicalised me. In fact, it was the observing the consequences of _belief in gender_ on various family members and friends of my kids, and then realising that it’s now impossible in public discourse to discuss anything negative about the consequences of belief in gender without immediately being censored, de-platformed and suppressed. > > I empathise with the mother in the link being censored because I am censored. As is perfectly exhibited in this thread. Aspidistra is, of course, doing what whiny right-wing snowflakes do, attempting to derail the discussion here by completely ignoring the substance of the post. The point isn’t that people aren’t allowed to tell their stories, it’s that they aren’t allowed to use hate speech to do it. I already told you (one example of) why it’s hate speech – because it consistently refers to its female-identified subject as a male in order to degrade and insult her. Read the fucking OP. And fuck you, you lying piece of shit. Nobody is “censoring” you. You didn’t even get a mod note! That’s the whole point of the ATMB thread. People are certainly calling you a bigoted piece of shit, but that’s no more than you deserve. Being judged based on the content of your speech isn’t “censorship” or “suppression”, no matter how much Trumpy whiners like yourself try to paint yourself as the victim while gleefully supporting policies designed to drive vulnerable children to suicide. Seems to me that the person who got a warning for calling you on your shit, and then got their thread immediately closed when they tried to discuss the issue further, has a lot better claim to being “censored” than you do. (Not complaining about the warning; I had it coming and it was totally worth it) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/2 "2022-03-10T21:12:46Z")
What is this in reference to? A link might be helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/3 "2022-03-10T21:13:58Z")
Sorry, just edited OP to add link. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/4 "2022-03-10T21:39:59Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > [I just tried to open an ATMB thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/aspidistra-finds-loophole-in-hate-speech-rules/960843) to discuss a question I had about a recent post of Aspidistra’s, which I was specifically encouraged to do by a mod, puzzlegal, when I approached her with my question. But now another mod has closed that thread because it seemed like a “pitting”. This doesn’t make much sense to me as the thread was asking a question about board policy and mentioned Aspidistra’s post only as an example of what I was asking about. You couldn’t have waited for @engineer_comp_geek to decide what to do with that thread? A lengthy decision, considering he’s still writing as I write this. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/5 "2022-03-10T21:43:09Z")
How long should someone wait for a thread to be reopened? Should we assume all closed threads will eventually be reopened? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/6 "2022-03-10T21:46:00Z")
When they specifically state to be reviewed, you could wait a little bit. But nothing wrong with starting a pit thread if you want. ---
**Author:** ![engineer\_comp\_geek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/engineer_comp_geek/32/504_2.png) [@engineer\_comp\_geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/engineer_comp_geek)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/7 "2022-03-10T21:49:48Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > But now another mod has closed that thread because it seemed like a “pitting”. What\_Exit closed it pending a review. The thread has been reviewed and is now open again. > [@74westy](#): > > How long should someone wait for a thread to be reopened? The moderators here are volunteers, so sometimes it takes a while for us to respond to something. How long “a while” is can vary, depending on how busy we are with real life and other things (for some silly reason my employers actually expect me to work during work hours and not spend all of my time on the internet). If a thread hasn’t been responded to in a reasonable amount of time, you can always flag the thread or post. All moderators will see the flag. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 9:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/8 "2022-03-10T21:50:44Z")
Well, Aspidistra’s response annoyed me to the point that I didn’t feel like using ATMB-friendly language. The point of starting the ATMB thread was to ask mods to clarify the policy, not to rehash the original argument. If Aspidistra wants to debate the merits of the case, this is definitely the appropriate forum to do so. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/9 "2022-03-10T21:51:28Z")
Thanks and I didn’t intend to say that moderators weren’t working fast enough. I should have noted the pending review message. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/10 "2022-03-10T22:11:35Z")
> [@Aspidistra](#): > > Then if you consider me radicalised on this subject you should ask what radicalised me. Well, we know what _didn’t_ radicalize her. Florida persecuting parents for having trans children didn’t radicalize her. Over half of trans or nonbinary youth reporting suicidal thoughts (and one in five actually attempting it) didn’t radicalize her. There were about fifty lethal hate crimes committed against trans people last year; that didn’t radicalize her. But a cis girl losing a swim meet to a trans girl? Watch the fuck out, **Aspidistra** ’s on the war path now! ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/11 "2022-03-10T22:18:37Z")
I love this post and everything about it ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/12 "2022-03-10T22:19:23Z")
Put simply: you can care about preserving the integrity of athletic competition, or you can care about kids dying. I reserve the right to judge you based on your choice. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/13 "2022-03-10T22:21:49Z")
Thanks, and thanks for your support (as well as Eonwe’s) in the original thread. You are one of the folks around here whose opinions I value most. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/14 "2022-03-10T22:32:18Z")
Can you be against hate crime but still question if a trans girl should be competing against cis girls? I see room for someone to not hate trans people but not be sure about that part. I think declaring **Aspidistra** ’s post a hate crime or supporting a hate crime is a little extreme. I stay out of this as I think college athletics is barely important in any way and don’t really see a problem with a trans girl competing. But I think there should be room for questioning it on this board without it being hate. I do think the original OP was terribly constructed and bounced what I took to be a Sports Question out of GD. But I also think the ATMB thread was attacking **Aspidistra** pushing the limits on an ATMB thread. We have plenty of linked articles of virtually no value. Normally it is suggested that we let posters show why the article is faulty, not attack the poster who presented it. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/15 "2022-03-10T22:32:40Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Then if you consider me radicalised on this subject you should ask what radicalised me. I knew a woman who said she hated first nations (native American) people because she was the victim of a home invasion by a first nations man. I definitely felt compassion for her because it must have been a terrifying experience but that doesn’t mean I had to agree with her conclusions about it. ---
**Author:** ![74westy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/74westy/32/3950_2.png) [@74westy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/74westy)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/16 "2022-03-10T22:34:37Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Can you be against hate crime but still question if a trans girl should be competing against cis girls? If that’s all you took from the article you didn’t read it. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/17 "2022-03-10T22:36:33Z")
I didn’t mean to imply that was what the article said, but OK, put words in my mouth. That was a question, separate from the article to Miller. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/18 "2022-03-10T22:45:59Z")
> [@What\_Exit](#): > > Can you be against hate crime but still question if a trans girl should be competing against cis girls? Sure, very few bigots actually endorse violence against the groups they dislike. There’s a lot more anti-Black bigotry in the US than there is open support for the Klan, you know? But I’m guessing what you actually meant was, “Can you question trans women participating in women’s sports _without being a bigot_?” In theory, yes. In practice? It’s pretty rare, at least IME. Almost without fail, if you push someone on the trans women in sports issue, you can get them to cop to a whole host of other transphobic ideas and attitudes. If you’ve got the stomach for it, dig up the thread where **DemonTree** and **You With the Face** have similar concerns about trans rights activists over-reaching, after the JK Rowling thing first blew up. They start out sounding fairly rational, but soon enough they end up at “Transgenderism is a male plot to eradicate lesbians.” ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/19 "2022-03-10T22:48:21Z")
(Edit: this was supposed to be a reply to What Exit?) Of course you can discuss the issue of whether trans girls should compete against cis girls without using overt hate speech. The article linked in Aspidistra’s OP failed to clear even that low bar. I don’t see why this is so hard to understand. You can talk about how you were mugged by a Black guy without using a bunch of racist epithets to describe him. Or you can choose to go the other way. My OP used some language that was perhaps stronger than strictly necessary to describe the linked article, but I did not in any way directly insult or attack Aspidistra herself. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2022, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847/20 "2022-03-10T22:49:06Z")
I know that thread. [I’m the one that banned **YWTF** from the subject. Well one of the 3 at least.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/thread-and-topic-bans-for-great-debates/847725/2) It was completely out of control. But we have users that do question the sports competitions that don’t seem to be transphobic, just caught up on sports. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-aspidistra/960847.md?page=2)