# I Pit Babale **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 7, 2025, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738 "2025-04-07T14:59:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/541 "2025-08-02T15:49:10Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > For example, you whine pathetically when people accuse you of supporting Israel because you have “criticized Netanyahu” Why would I “whine pathetically” when people “accuse” me of doing something I openly and proudly do? Of course I support Israel. I don’t support _Netanyahu_, mostly because of his dictatorial judicial reform bill. But obviously I support Israel. You dumb fuck. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/542 "2025-08-02T15:58:26Z")
I mean, you do you. Keep fucking that chicken ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/543 "2025-08-02T16:39:23Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Oh, and things keep continuing to get worse for trans people too. I find it somewhat ironic that it was Mr “They’ll murder us Jews in our beds even in America hence Israel must remain an Apartheid state” Paranoia who was the one telling the actual trans people they were overreacting in fearing for their existence. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/544 "2025-08-02T16:58:05Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I find it somewhat ironic that it was Mr “They’ll murder us Jews in our beds even in America hence Israel must remain an Apartheid state” Paranoia Since you supposedly think my position is so vile, you’d think you’d be capable of actually finding ways to criticize my actual position. But like the braindead fuck you are, you prove completely incapable of that. For anyone who isn’t a disgusting racist lying fuck like MrDribble, I support a two state solution where the Israeli state has full citizenship for its Arab residents. Twisting that into whatever delusional nonsense MrDribble thinks I believe requires a special kind of brain damage. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/545 "2025-08-02T17:59:06Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I support a two state solution where the Israeli state has full citizenship for its Arab residents. …but Jews will always be the _extra-special_ citizens. I know exactly what kind of Apartheid state you support. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/546 "2025-08-02T18:16:23Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > …but Jews will always be the _extra-special_ citizens In the sense that they could always run there if they’re being genocided elsewhere and automatically be let in and just about no other way. I can tell that idea _really bothers you_ though, in a way that the 27 officially Muslim countries, 13 officially Christian countries, and 40 countries that favor one religion or another _don’t_. Why is it so important to you that Jews become a stateless minority once again? > [@MrDibble](#): > > I know exactly what kind of Apartheid state you support. The kind where all people regardless of race and religion are fully protected by the law, are allowed to hold any office they want, and so on? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/547 "2025-08-02T19:34:28Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > just about no other way So this “new” Israel won’t have the Nation State law anymore? Arabic will have equal status with Hebrew? The ILA will give equal preference to Arabs in permiting? Parties that question the Basic law will be allowed to stand for parliament anyway? Arabs municipalities will receive equal education funding as opposed to the paltry 40% less they get now? State benefits will no longer be tied to military service? You think I think the Right of Return is the only way Israel is an Apartheid state? > [@Babale](#): > > The kind where all people regardless of race and religion are fully protected by the law, are allowed to hold any office they want, and so on? So, a different Israel from the current one, magically… ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/548 "2025-08-02T21:00:04Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > So this “new” Israel won’t have the Nation State law anymore? I don’t understand the question. Are you asking if the basic law that was passed in 2018 would make it into the constitution I would support Israel eventually adopting? I don’t particularly care about that. Are you asking if the obvious thing the law states, that Israel is a Jewish country, would still be true? Yes, it would. Are you asking if Jewish citizens would be treated any differently than other citizens? No, I wouldn’t support that. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Arabic will have equal status with Hebrew? Huh? Having an official language makes a country an apartheid? > [@MrDibble](#): > > The ILA will give equal preference to Arabs in permiting? Yes, obviously, I think that’s how the ILA should act. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Parties that question the Basic law will be allowed to stand for parliament anyway? What does this mean? Basic Law is basically the partially written constitution. Are parties that reject the Basic Law or an eventual Constitution as a whole to be allowed to run? I would say no, with a fairly high bar needing to be met for an actual ban; the example of Germany is pretty aligned with my thinking: [Quote]A party may be banned only if it not only takes an anti-constitutional attitude but aims to act on that attitude in a militant and aggressive way. For a political party to be banned, it is therefore not sufficient that they challenge, refuse to recognise or reject the supreme values of our constitution or try to replace them with other values. Instead, the political party concerned must be out to deliberately undermine the functioning of Germany’s free democratic basic order. This presupposes that there must be specific and valid evidence suggesting that there is at least a possibility of the party’s activities being successful.[/QUOTE] > [@MrDibble](#): > > Arabs municipalities will receive equal education funding as opposed to the paltry 40% less they get now? Yeah, obviously. And religious Jewish education would have funding severely slashed > [@MrDibble](#): > > State benefits will no longer be tied to military service? What does this have to do with apartheid? I had to register for the Selective Service here in the US to receive financial aid for school, what is apartheidy about that? Arabs are allowed to serve, and I’d hope that once things are more peaceful, we could both end the exemption for Arab citizens and either use the draft for civil service roles like construction or not have it active at all times. > [@MrDibble](#): > ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/549 "2025-08-02T21:16:50Z")
Wtf, did something change about the way discourse handles quoting? The whole UI feels subtly different as of a few days ago. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/550 "2025-08-02T21:28:44Z")
It’s too seldom remembered that trans people were victims of the Nazi Holocaust too. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/551 "2025-08-02T22:10:02Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > In the sense that they could always run there if they’re being genocided elsewhere and automatically be let in and just about no other way. I can tell that idea _really bothers you_ though, in a way that the 27 officially Muslim countries, 13 officially Christian countries, and 40 countries that favor one religion or another _don’t_. I realize this is the Pit and asking for a factual answer is a bit of a tangent, but any of those nations with a designated official religion _automatically_ admit refugees of the same religion without question or qualification as Israel admits Jews? Note: I’m not passing any judgement on the practice, just inquiring how common (or not) it might be. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/552 "2025-08-02T23:47:29Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > “They do it toooo!!!” is a _defense?_ > [@Gyrate](#): > > Yeah, that’s not a defense. In fact it’s a backhanded insult. You think doing the ‘both sides’ thing is just as bad as dog whistling extreme antisemitic conspiracy theories…? Have you considered having a sense of proportion? A modicum of intelligence? Some degree of rationality? …nevermind. * * * > [@Broomstick](#): > > I realize this is the Pit and asking for a factual answer is a bit of a tangent, but any of those nations with a designated official religion _automatically_ admit refugees of the same religion without question or qualification as Israel admits Jews? 🤣🤣 🤣 You can’t be serious? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 2, 2025, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/553 "2025-08-02T23:51:25Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > You think doing the ‘both sides’ thing is just as bad as dog whistling extreme antisemitic conspiracy theories…? Your bullshit has absolutely nothing to do with what I _actually_ wrote, so I guess that, for once, you got something vaguely right when you then said “…nevermind”. Considering the sheer dumbfuckery of your statement…I shall do just that. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/554 "2025-08-03T00:39:47Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Have you considered having a sense of proportion? A modicum of intelligence? Some degree of rationality? I have all those things, which is why I pointed out that you were being a lying disingenuous fuckwit. As usual. Have you considered not being a lying disingenuous fuckwit? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 12:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/555 "2025-08-03T00:44:23Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Why would I “whine pathetically” when people “accuse” me of doing something I openly and proudly do? Of course I support Israel. I don’t support _Netanyahu_, mostly because of his dictatorial judicial reform bill. But obviously I support Israel. You dumb fuck. And yet you happily support Netanyahu’s dictatorial policies regarding his mass murder of the residents of Gaza. You sure carry a lot of water for someone you don’t support. You morally bankrupt fuck. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/556 "2025-08-03T00:46:44Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Have you considered not being a lying disingenuous fuckwit? Have you considered not beating your wife? ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/557 "2025-08-03T03:16:30Z")
…for the sake of clarity, this was the snippet I was responding too. “The thing they aren’t doing is finding other Israel supporters who they are in lockstep on 90% of the issue and sending them death threats.” This post is predicated on the assumption that the people sending death threats are people that “are in lockstep on 90% of the issue.” But we don’t know that at all. It’s entirely possible that they are. And its also entirely possible that it’s just some _Incel, QAnon, 4chan, Snyder Cut motherfuckers_ just doing it for the lolz. My “are you sure” was addressing this. I concede it also could be read as “are you sure the other side isn’t doing the same thing?” And that’s a perfectly valid reasoning, because this is ALSO a possibility, which is why I chose _brevity_ over over-explaining, because that single sentence, “are you sure?” covered multiple ideas. That obviously was a mistake. If I had have known a single sentence response implied I was involved in a conspiracy that involved dragons and pizza shop basements, I may have considered spending a bit more time crafting a response. My bad. But to be as clear as possible, I have nothing against Zog, the young, accident-prone dragon, and I wish Julia Donaldson and Axel Scheffler all the best. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/558 "2025-08-03T04:05:29Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Wtf, did something change about the way discourse handles quoting? The whole UI feels subtly different as of a few days ago. Yes, and i don’t think the differences are at all subtle. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/559 "2025-08-03T06:13:34Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Have you considered not beating your wife? Interesting response, given that this is exactly the tactic I called you a lying disingenuous fuckwit for pulling previously. So I guess the answer to my question is no. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 8:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/560 "2025-08-03T08:11:25Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I don’t particularly care about that. Are you asking if the obvious thing the law states, that Israel is a Jewish country, would still be true? Yes, it would. It says a lot more than that. But just that is enough. > [@Babale](#): > > Are you asking if Jewish citizens would be treated any differently than other citizens? No, I wouldn’t support that. But you support a nation established in such a way that this absolutely can’t _not_ be the case. > [@Babale](#): > > Having an official language makes a country an apartheid? NOT having the language of 20% of your citizens also being one is the Apartheid move. Especially when that language _used to have_ official status and that status was explicitly removed. > [@Babale](#): > > Yes, obviously, I think that’s how the ILA should act. And you think it will ac_t_ually be that in your NeoIsrael? Not sure if you’re just naive, or absolutely deluded. I mean, theoretically, that should be the situation in current Israeli framework. But it’s not, because Israel is run by racist fucks. Are you proposing kicking all those racist fucks out of your new Zion? > [@Babale](#): > > Are parties that reject the Basic Law or an eventual Constitution as a whole to be allowed to run? I would say no So much for free speech, I guess. Nice of the system to insulate itself from any real opposition to its own structure, I guess. _No_ chance that such absolutely clear-cut words as _militant_, _aggressive_, _deliberately_, _valid_ would ever be twisted into bans on only certain kinds of parties \s > [@Babale](#): > > Yeah, obviously. How would your New Zion enforce this? I mean, it’s nominally the case in Israel at the moment that education should be fair: " without discrimination based on religion, race, gender, nationality, ethnic group, socioeconomic background, personal opinions, or political affiliation.”". In practice, though, because Israel is partly populated by racist chucklefucks, we have the current disparity. Are you going to remove the racist chucklefucks before you declare your _Iudaea Nova_? And how will you prevent them from _ehem_ _Returning_? > [@Babale](#): > > What does this have to do with apartheid? Tying military service to citizenship is a big part of the kind of bully-boy thinking that gives you Apartheid SA. > [@Babale](#): > > What does this have to do with apartheid? At the moment, Arabs aren’t allowed to serve in all military positions - how many Arab pilots has the Air Force had? Rhetorical question: 0. And _after_ serving, although _officially_ that means the Arab veterans now have access to all the benefits of service, in practice they still face lots of discrimination. So in your shiny new country, how will such discrimination be outlawed? Will Arabs automatically be trusted just like Jews? And I don’t mean just by you, vaunted “liberal” that you are. I mean by the Jewish majority you’ve guaranteed for your ethnostate. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738.md?page=29)