# I Pit Babale **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 7, 2025, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738 "2025-04-07T14:59:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 29
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 11:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/561 "2025-08-03T11:43:09Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > And you think it will ac_t_ually be that in your NeoIsrael? Not sure if you’re just naive, or absolutely deluded. I mean, theoretically, that should be the situation in current Israeli framework. But it’s not, because Israel is run by racist fucks. > > Are you proposing kicking all those racist fucks out of your new Zion? Do you think America needs to “kick out" all the MAGA supporters to work towards being a more liberal country again? Wait, never mind, you think America is the root of all evil, don’t you. > [@MrDibble](#): > > But you support a nation established in such a way that this absolutely can’t _not_ be the case. You say this, but you provide zero evidence for it. > [@MrDibble](#): > > So much for free speech, I guess. When did I claim to be a free speech absolutist? Is Germany an apartheid because of their laws against advocating against the Constitution? > [@MrDibble](#): > > Nice of the system to insulate itself from any real opposition to its own structure, I guess. _No_ chance that such absolutely clear-cut words as _militant_, _aggressive_, _deliberately_, _valid_ would ever be twisted into bans on only certain kinds of parties \s Which is why Germany in 2025 is a totalitarian hellhole apartheid. > [@MrDibble](#): > > How would your New Zion enforce this? I mean, it’s nominally the case in Israel at the moment that education should be fair: " without discrimination based on religion, race, gender, nationality, ethnic group, socioeconomic background, personal opinions, or political affiliation.”". Through the courts? The same courts, by the way, that ruled that even if Arabic isn’t an official language, it has special protection by law and must be widely available? > [@MrDibble](#): > > NOT having the language of 20% of your citizens also being one is the Apartheid move. > > Especially when that language _used to have_ official status and that status was explicitly removed. When did the state of Israel have Arabic as an official language? What is this revisionist history? > [@MrDibble](#): > > How would your New Zion enforce this? I mean, it’s nominally the case in Israel at the moment that education should be fair: " without discrimination based on religion, race, gender, nationality, ethnic group, socioeconomic background, personal opinions, or political affiliation.”". Again, the courts, numbskull. > [@MrDibble](#): > > In practice, though, because Israel is partly populated by racist chucklefucks, we have the current disparity. > > Are you going to remove the racist chucklefucks before you declare your _Iudaea Nova_? And how will you prevent them from _ehem_ _Returning_? Are you actually fucking brain dead? Or a Russian bot? All the ideas I’m outlining are widely supported by parties like Labour. And no, because I’m a Liberal and not a disgusting illiberal fuckwad, I don’t want to round up people who disagree with me to deport them or put them in a Gulag. I’m not a _leftist_. And I don’t know why you’re jerking off to every term you can think of for a new country. Like a normal fucking person, I believe liberal democracies should improve through incremental reform, not a glorious People’s Revolution. > [@MrDibble](#): > > At the moment, Arabs aren’t allowed to serve in all military positions - how many Arab pilots has the Air Force had? Rhetorical question: 0. You understand that these two statements are simply _not equivalent_, right? That said, to the level that you do have a point, I agree: Israel’s Arab citizens should be better integrated into society, and that includes full military service. That’s an aspirational goal for the country, and can be achieved through the courts and through gradual change. It doesn’t require a new country. > [@MrDibble](#): > > And _after_ serving, although _officially_ that means the Arab veterans now have access to all the benefits of service, in practice they still face lots of discrimination. Discrimination is obviously bad and should be fought against. Through political reform, not through whatever fucking delusional nonsense you’re on. > [@MrDibble](#): > > So in your shiny new country, Wank wank wank wank… now I understand why they call you “MrDribble”. What the fuck are you on about? When someone talks about changes they want to see happen in the US, do you screech at them “where will your new America even come from, _Mars_? HAUHAHIEHEHUEEHAHAHA”. > [@MrDibble](#): > > So in your shiny new country, how will such discrimination be outlawed? Will Arabs automatically be trusted just like Jews? Ideally, through an explicit statement in the Constitution that’s eventually written that says that all citizens are to be treated equally. Like in any other country, including all the European Nation-States that you manage to refrain from publicly masturbating about abolishing. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 12:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/562 "2025-08-03T12:04:52Z")
By the way, to be clear; I personally am not opposed to Arabic being an official language, and depending on the law being proposed to make it so, I very well might support it. My point is only that it is _incredibly fucking stupid_ to claim that the lack of Arabic as an official language would make the country an Apartheid. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/563 "2025-08-03T12:19:34Z")
> [@Broomstick](#): > > I realize this is the Pit and asking for a factual answer is a bit of a tangent, but any of those nations with a designated official religion _automatically_ admit refugees of the same religion without question or qualification as Israel admits Jews? > > Note: I’m not passing any judgement on the practice, just inquiring how common (or not) it might be. If there were 26, or even 12, other Jewish countries, then it might be a little less of a priority. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/564 "2025-08-03T12:55:29Z")
That does not, however, answer my question. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/565 "2025-08-03T13:06:50Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Do you think America needs to “kick out" all the MAGA supporters to work towards being a more liberal country again? It wouldn’t hurt. Except nobody would take them. > [@Babale](#): > > Wait, never mind, you think America is the root of all evil, don’t you. That’s not leaving a lot of room for Israel, now is it… > [@Babale](#): > > You say this, but you provide zero evidence for it. It’s the exact current Israeli setup, on paper anyway, and that’s manifestly not equal for Arabs. That’s my evidence. > [@Babale](#): > > When did I claim to be a free speech absolutist? Did I say anything about you being an absolutist? > [@Babale](#): > > Is Germany an apartheid because of their laws against advocating against the Constitution? Modern Germans have overall proved themselves much more reasonable and dedicated to the principles of liberalism than modern Israelis. I trust them not to abuse those laws. I don’t trust Israelis not to. _Since they’re clearly abusing liberal-sounding laws like that right now._ > [@Babale](#): > > Which is why Germany in 2025 is a totalitarian hellhole apartheid. Germany is not Israel. One of these countries actually learned the right lessons from the past. One very clearly did not. > [@Babale](#): > > Through the courts? The ones currently doing jack-shit to fix the imbalance? Is this more of you magicing away the actual problems in Israel? Boy, you took the ridiculous American idea of a magical piece of law-paper to heart, didn’t you? > [@Babale](#): > > When did the state of Israel have Arabic as an official language? 1948-2018. > [@Babale](#): > > Again, the courts, numbskull. I don’t think the idiot responding to a quote they repeatedly copied _as if it was a fresh comment_ is in any position to call out intelligence-based insults. Dumbfuck. > [@Babale](#): > > All the ideas I’m outlining are widely supported by parties like Labour. All the ideas you’re espousing are nominally actually there (on paper) already. You don’t need a new Israel, you need new Israelis. The ones you currently have are broken. > [@Babale](#): > > And I don’t know why you’re jerking off to every term you can think of for a new country. To be fair, I did repeat “new Zion”. But glad you noticed. > [@Babale](#): > > liberal democracies Ha ha ha! Nice one! > [@Babale](#): > > You understand that these two statements are simply _not equivalent_, right? Did I say they were? They’re definitely linked, though - and the link is anti-Arab discrimination. > [@Babale](#): > > That’s an aspirational goal for the country, and can be achieved through the courts and through gradual change. The courts aren’t doing anything about the discrimination _now_, and what is going to drive this gradual change? The real demographic growth in your country is via the settlements. They’re hardly bastions of pro-Arab sentiment. Are _you_ going to drive it, comfortably ensconced in … Haifa? Tel Aviv? Oh wait… > [@Babale](#): > > not through whatever fucking delusional nonsense you’re on. I haven’t actually proposed anything yet. > [@Babale](#): > > do you screech at them Oh, “screeching”, that’s almost a [classic](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/shriekers-here-mrdibble-der-trihs/674467). I’ve been doing this a long time, you think you’re the first fool attempting _Reductio ad Ridiculum_ at me? > [@Babale](#): > > Ideally, through an explicit statement in the Constitution that’s eventually written that says that all citizens are to be treated equally. You mean, like Israel already pays lip service to? How does that change … anything? > [@Babale](#): > > Like in any other country, including all the European Nation-States You mean the ones not currently actively engaging in genocide? Gosh, wonder why they get a pass? > [@Babale](#): > > publicly masturbating about abolishing. Happy for Israel to continue to exist. As an Apartheid state, not so much. > [@Babale](#): > > My point is only that it is _incredibly fucking stupid_ to claim that the lack of Arabic as an official language would make the country an Apartheid. Didn’t say that, despite this being your second try at building that strawman. Said that the _removal_ of official status from Arabic is a symptom of Apartheid. What _makes_ Israel an Apartheid state is a bunch of racist Israelis. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/566 "2025-08-03T13:13:13Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You don’t need a new Israel, you need new Israelis. The ones you currently have are broken. Yikes. Imagine if someone said this about Palestinians on October 8… We’d all rightly point out exactly what sort of disgusting, racist, dehumanizing pieces of shit they are. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/567 "2025-08-03T13:27:41Z")
If you’d said it about _Hamas_, I’d be right there with you. I think I’d been clear in my previous post that not _all_ Israelis are the racist shitbags who keep Israel the Apartheid hellhole for Arabs that it currently is. I did say “_partly_ populated by racist chucklefucks” after all, those are the broken ones I meant. But _mea culpa_, I should have used clearer language: _Many of_ the ones you currently have are broken. Better? Would you like a cite for how in 2016 half of Israeli High Schoolers thought Arabs shouldn’t be allowed in the Knesset, or how 59% self-identified as right wing, or do you think they’ve all magically become liberals after graduating? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/568 "2025-08-03T13:42:10Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > If you’d said it about _Hamas_, I’d be right there with you. _I_ wouldn’t say it, but if someone _did_ say it about the 70% of Palestinians who were polled as supporting Hamas last year, I still think we’d all agree that’s pretty gross. The fact is that _every_ country, including yours, and including Germany which you praised a moment ago (remember that AFD _is_ a thing…) has those sorts of people. Supporting the people who oppose those groups and hoping that they win out isn’t _magic_, it’s the basis of every functional political movement. ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/569 "2025-08-03T13:45:33Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > What kind of proudly ignorant asshole are you? > > “I can’t be bothered to actually know what I’m talking about but I’ll spout off opinions like I do!” > > And you admit that? now _this_ is a funny comment. You apparently didn’t even bother to read the post I was responding to > [@MrDibble](#): > > You must not have read this thread, then. It wasn’t started because of his genocide cheerleading. it specifically referenced the _start of the thread_, so I made a point of explicitly stating that I had read. And my spouted opinion was about what kind of poster Babale was. Do you need to read every single one of a users posts to have an opinion on them? ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/570 "2025-08-03T13:49:25Z")
Well I’m convinced. A 2 state solution will not solve literally all problems. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/571 "2025-08-03T13:54:25Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > _I_ wouldn’t say it I would - Hamas are fundamentally broken people. > [@Babale](#): > > if someone _did_ say it about the 70% of Palestinians who were polled as supporting Hamas last year, I still think we’d all agree that’s pretty gross. Depends very much on how the question was phrased, and how the poll was administered, but overall, I’m happy to say the 70% of people still supporting Hamas are fundamentally broken in some way, yes. > [@Babale](#): > > remember that AFD _is_ a thing …and…? Hasn’t changed Germany’s ongoing “no genocide” policy. 80 years and still quite steadfast on that front. If only Israel could say the same. > [@Babale](#): > > Supporting the people who oppose those groups and hoping that they win out isn’t _magic_ Thinking it will _change_ anything when the trends in Israel are clear is the magical thinking. > [@Babale](#): > > it’s the basis of every functional political movement. Hopes and prayers aren’t the basis of political change, _action_ is. > [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > A 2 state solution will not solve literally all problems. Certainly not one where most Jewish Israelis are suddenly magically well-inclined to Arab Israelis absent any outside motivation, no. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/572 "2025-08-03T13:56:06Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I would - Hamas are fundamentally broken people If you read past the comma, I said I wouldn’t say that the 70% of Palestinians who support Hamas are broken and need to be replaced. Obviously actual Hamas members are a different story. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/573 "2025-08-03T13:58:30Z")
What an dumb move by MLK supporting the civil rights act. What were white americans going to do, suddenly stop being racist? ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/574 "2025-08-03T14:02:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I think I’d been clear in my previous post that not _all_ Israelis are the racist shitbags who keep Israel the Apartheid hellhole for Arabs that it currently is. I did say “_partly_ populated by racist chucklefucks” after all, those are the broken ones I meant. Uh-huh. And then you go ahead and talk in absolutist terms with > [@MrDibble](#): > > You don’t need a new Israel, you need new Israelis. Which is it? > [@MrDibble](#): > > But _mea culpa_, I should have used clearer language: Yes, you should have. Words matter. ---
**Author:** ![Broomstick](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/broomstick/32/246_2.png) [@Broomstick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Broomstick)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/575 "2025-08-03T14:06:33Z")
> [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > Well I’m convinced. A 2 state solution will not solve literally all problems. Let’s all be honest here - a 2 state solution would in no way guarantee peace. One would hope it would guarantee neither side is wiped out in a genocide but there is every possibility that even 2 stable nations would still be in conflict with each other, perhaps even go to war with each other from time to time. On the other hand, what’s been tried up to this point hasn’t worked, either. A 2 state solution could make peace _possible_. It will not make it _certain._ At this point there would need to be a lot of additional work just to maintain a long-term period of not shooting at each other. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/576 "2025-08-03T14:10:14Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > , I said I wouldn’t say that the 70% of Palestinians who support Hamas are broken and need to be replaced I said they were broken, I didn’t say they needed to be replaced. In case it wasn’t clear, _I_ don’t think broken racist Israelis need to be replaced, either. Just pointing out that your Cloudcuckooland Israel plan wouldn’t work _without_ replacing them. > [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > What an dumb move by MLK supporting the civil rights act. Is this supposed to be some kind of direct analogy? Because MLK actually put his butt on the line for the fight, he didn’t just post about it from California like babale. > [@DeadTreasSecretaries](#): > > What were white americans going to do, suddenly stop being racist? Call me when they _do_ stop. Not electing Republicans would be the first sign. Just FYI, I’m not holding my breath in the meantime… > [@Broomstick](#): > > Which is it? The one where I explicitly reiterated said what I meant? Why are you asking which it is when I said in the very post you’re quoting what I actually meant? > [@Broomstick](#): > > On the other hand, what’s been tried up to this point hasn’t worked, either. The one thing that hasn’t been tried yet is what actually worked to stop some genocides in the past. ---
**Author:** ![DeadTreasSecretaries](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deadtreassecretaries/32/4817_2.png) [@DeadTreasSecretaries](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeadTreasSecretaries)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/577 "2025-08-03T14:16:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Call me when they _do_ stop. Not electing Republicans would be the first sign. Just FYI, I’m not holding my breath in the meantime My point is that MLK didn’t immediately end racism, but the 1960s reforms that happened as a result of the civil rights movement clearly improved the country and it would be silly to think that because America chose not to deport all racists or something it was a bad idea. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/578 "2025-08-03T14:24:20Z")
Would you have had the current backsliding situation if racists hadn’t been largely tolerated? You’re speaking of the American civil rights story as though it’s a done deal. As though America isn’t currently actually in some ways _more_ racist than it was in the 60s, just to different demographics. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 2:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/579 "2025-08-03T14:32:23Z")
I wasn’t old enough on the 60s to have a direct comparison. But i was also reading this thread and thinking, “the trend in the US is scary, and those currently in power are doing their best to undo all the civil rights progress that has been made since reconstruction. And then there are the people being kidnapped off the streets by masked thugs and shipped to prison camps in the US and Venezuela. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2025, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/580 "2025-08-03T14:35:11Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > I think I’d been clear in my previous post that not _all_ Israelis are the racist shitbags who keep Israel the Apartheid hellhole for Arabs that it currently is. I did say “_partly_ populated by racist chucklefucks” after all, those are the broken ones I meant. > [@Voicing limited and qualified agreement with a bigoted stereotype](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/voicing-limited-and-qualified-agreement-with-a-bigoted-stereotype/1021561/118): > > As has been pointed out, repatedly - this one is NOT true. It only can _seem_ true if it passes without comment, if “everyone knows what I really meant”. > > Well, no, I don’t know you from Adolf, why am I supposed to know you mean some “innocuous” form of the extremely racist stereotype you’re repeating? Interesting juxtaposition there. It’s _really important_ that we are _super careful_ with our language when we say things like “black people are good at basketball” (the comment by @Dr.Strangelove that prompted the quoted comment). Because not everyone _knows what you mean_ when you say that black people are good at basketball - they might mistake you for a racist. On the other hand, statements like “Israelis are fundamentally broken” are totally reasonable and if we aren’t being super charitable towards you in our interpretation of the phrase we are being ridiculous. I find that dichotomy fascinating. And frankly, I don’t buy it. I don’t know you from Khomenei. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738.md?page=28) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738.md?page=30)