# I Pit Babale **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 7, 2025, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738 "2025-04-07T14:59:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2025, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/41 "2025-04-07T19:29:43Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > Wow. All these years, I’ve assumed it was “Baba’leh”. > [@DocCathode](#): > > I found that unlikely. If your name started with “Ba”, or had “Baba” in it, I could see Hebrew speakers (especially Hebrew speaking grandmas 😛) call you “Baba’leh” as a diminutive, so maybe that’s why. Sadly I can’t find any pictures of babales online. I might have to reinstall the game later so I can take one. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2025, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/42 "2025-04-07T19:32:14Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Have you ever been literally beaten bloody? By a merciless and sadistic authority figure? To the point where you literally start to tremble if something triggers that sense of helplessness and danger? I have. My understanding is that such things are quite routine in those Salvadorean prisons that the US is sending legal residents who haven’t been convicted of any crime to. ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2025, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/43 "2025-04-07T19:41:57Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Have you ever been literally beaten bloody? By a merciless and sadistic authority figure? To the point where you literally start to tremble if something triggers that sense of helplessness and danger? I have. \< Cough \> Bullshit…! Bullshit…! \< Cough \> ---
**Author:** ![HMS\_Irruncible](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hms_irruncible/32/7394_2.png) [@HMS\_Irruncible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HMS_Irruncible)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2025, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/44 "2025-04-07T19:43:13Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > So given this terrible perspective, I believe that I can say with some authority that what the Trump administration is doing falls so far short of genuine fascism that I can only feel rage and scorn for the virtue signalers who haven’t the faintest idea what true oppression is. What do you think is happening to the people is deporting to Salvadoran gang prisons? Yoga and art therapy? I’m sorry but you must be a true piece of shit if you can go through the kind of abuse you described, and then make light of it happening to someone else just because you dislike the political faction who is calling it out. It’s not uncommon for people who experience oppression to try and gain some sense of control by identifying with oppressors. Sounds like that’s exactly what you have going on. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2025, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/45 "2025-04-07T19:52:33Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > You won’t hear me praise Trump, but at this point I still think that his administration is at most fascism-lite. Right, it will only be fascism _when we can’t do anything about it_ anymore. Good timing! ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2025, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/46 "2025-04-07T19:54:39Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > So given this terrible perspective, I believe that I can say with some authority that what the Trump administration is doing falls so far short of genuine fascism that I can only feel rage and scorn for the virtue signalers who haven’t the faintest idea what true oppression is. That’s just nonsense, I’ve lived in a number of repressive regimes because of my work, including in Palestine when Israelis police would let me in places my Palestinian colleagues couldn’t go and in Russia when Putin was consolidating power and this feels very much like that time. Also, I have a black friend who was held overnight and beaten in an Alabama jail for being on a date with a white woman, so maybe get the fuck over yourself. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2025, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/47 "2025-04-07T19:55:14Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Have you ever been literally beaten bloody? By a merciless and sadistic authority figure? To the point where you literally start to tremble if something triggers that sense of helplessness and danger? I have. First, I’m sorry that happened. Second, you seem to be leaving out key details here- When did this happen? Where did this happen? What kind of authority figure? Did you actually do something that while illegal was not remotely a cause for violence? Or did they literally just grab you off the street? I’m not doubting that it happened. But without knowing these details, I’m not seeing the relevance. I have known plenty of people who were routinely beaten bloody by a sadistic authority figure- their fathers. I don’t deny the abuse those people suffered. It was tragic. It has nothing to do with this thread. > [@Lumpy](#): > > So given this terrible perspective, I believe that I can say with some authority that what the Trump administration is doing falls so far short of genuine fascism that I can only feel rage and scorn for the virtue signalers who haven’t the faintest idea what true oppression is. Unless you explain who this sadistic authority figure was and how they and the beating relate to fascism, what authority? Plus, I would argue that Helga’s experience trumps yours. Finally, while once again saying that what we are experiencing in the US is not fascism, you have not actually answered my question. Here it is again- > [@DocCathode](#): > > Just what are your political views exactly? ---
**Author:** ![WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wookinpanubv.2/32/3260_2.png) [@WOOKINPANUBv.2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WOOKINPANUBv.2)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2025, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/48 "2025-04-07T20:20:59Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > call you “Baba’leh” as a diminutive, This is how I’ve been saying it (in my mind) ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/49 "2025-04-08T12:44:58Z")
> [@DocCathode](#): > > I have posted this story before. here it is again- About the time Trump first became the Republican nominee, my Mom’s friend Helga said “He reminds me of Hiter.” Normally, I would call that hyperbole and lack of research. Helga lived in Germany during Hitler’s rise ti power. I had an elderly German friend who had a slightly older relative who remembered Hitler’s rise to power who told me her relative said exactly the same thing. They were not Jews. They were “Aryans” and were not grossly mistreated by Germany. They were also decent enough to think Germany had done horrible things under Hitler, and were afraid of Trump. > [@Babale](#): > > Bab like baboon, ale like whale. > > In the 2003 steampunk RTS _Impossible Creatures_, you could combine pairs of animals to create the units you used to fight other armies in the game. A Babale was one of the most “meta” picks, combining a baboon’s quick speed and claw attacks with a whale’s bulk and sonic based ranged attack. Thank you. > [@Alessan](#): > > Wow. All these years, I’ve assumed it was “Baba’leh”. I read it “Baba’lee”, accent on the third syllable. But the way, my name is pronounced puzzle-gal. I collect mechanical puzzles. I have no legal background. > [@Lumpy](#): > > Have you ever been literally beaten bloody? By a merciless and sadistic authority figure? To the point where you literally start to tremble if something triggers that sense of helplessness and danger? I have. I have not. > [@Lumpy](#): > > So given this terrible perspective, I believe that I can say with some authority that what the Trump administration is doing falls so far short of genuine fascism that I can only feel rage and scorn for the virtue signalers who haven’t the faintest idea what true oppression is. I have seen masked thugs working for the government grab innocent people off the streets. And some of those innocent people have been shipped to a prison camp in El Salvador, where, I’ve been led to believe, that kind of brutality is the norm. And when the courts ruled on one case, “it was illegal to deport this person”, the Trump administration replied, “haha, too late”. The most recent court ruling is being reported as a win for Trump (he can deport people to that camp) but it’s not a clean win, as the full ruling is that each person needs to get a hearing in a court of law, first. Something that hasn’t been done, and that would likely have prevented most of those deportations. So… Has he brutalized innocent people? Yes. Not many, at least, not yet. Will the court orders be obeyed ? Here’s hoping. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 12:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/50 "2025-04-08T12:47:49Z")
Oh, and last time i took the train, there was a gang of armed “department of homeland security police” hanging out on the platform. I dunno what they were doing there, but they sure didn’t make me feel safe. (On the way back i only saw “transit police”, and they actually do make me feel safe. I asked one about a missing McDonald’s that they knew had been closed but was still on Google maps. No way I’d approach ICE with an innocent question like that.) ---
**Author:** ![Joey\_P](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/919ad9/32.png) [@Joey\_P](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joey_P)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 1:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/51 "2025-04-08T13:58:46Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > Will the court orders be obeyed ? Legal Eagle’s been getting a lot of mileage out of this graphic: [![](https://i.imgur.com/BPNVq5P.png) ](https://i.imgur.com/BPNVq5P.png) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/52 "2025-04-08T14:51:17Z")
How do you know there aren’t innocent people suffering the same kind of beatings and torture because they were sent to El Salvador by this administration without due process? Without due process, how could this be stopped if the administration wanted to do it? ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/53 "2025-04-08T15:33:52Z")
And it should be noted that [CBS News has looked for criminal records](https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-records-show-about-migrants-sent-to-salvadoran-prison-60-minutes-transcript/) for the 238 men that were the subject of Boasberg’s order, and has so far found that 75% of them have no known criminal records. > At least 22% of the men on the list have criminal records here in the United States or abroad. The vast majority are for non-violent offenses like theft, shoplifting and trespassing. About a dozen are accused of murder, rape, assault and kidnapping. > For 3% of those deported, it is unclear whether a criminal record exists. > But we could not find criminal records for 75% of the Venezuelans - 179 men- now sitting in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Zoobi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/13edae/32.png) [@Zoobi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoobi)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2025, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/54 "2025-04-08T15:59:54Z")
I believe the line from ICE was that having no criminal record was evidence of just how dangerous they were. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 12:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/55 "2025-04-09T12:25:41Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > > [@What is the maximum extent to which we are allowed to disagree with transgenderism (on the Dope)?](#): > > > > But she didn’t, did she? And is treating people in the qualified way you present an extremist position? > > I answered this question twice now. The qualified way I present, “_people should be treated accordingly in every area of **PUBLIC** life without regard for aspects of biological sex, and various other things_”, IS an extremist position if it includes sports\*, and IS NOT an extremist position if it excludes sports. > > \*I think _restricted_ access for _some_ trans women, for example girls who transitioned before undergoing male puberty, is not an extremist position, although it is a controversial one, even among Democrats. It’s a position I support, mind you. So @Gyrate, does that answer your question? Did I miss what you were getting at? Does my answer prove I want to destroy all trans people? What’s the verdict, am I going to the reeducation camps? I’m also curious about your answer to my question above: > [@Babale](#): > > > [@What is the maximum extent to which we are allowed to disagree with transgenderism (on the Dope)?](#): > > > > Why exclude the two main ones? > > I don’t understand the question. Why exclude romantic partners and doctors? Because if the statement was “Trans people should be treated as the gender they identify with at all times, no questions asked, including by their doctors and by prospective romantic partners”, I think we could ALL agree that this is a VERY extremist position, right? > > Right? Right? ---
**Author:** ![Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mundane_super_hero/32/6304_2.png) [@Mundane\_Super\_Hero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mundane_Super_Hero)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2025, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/56 "2025-04-09T17:46:39Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > What’s the verdict, am I going to the reeducation camps? I’d donate a beer mug full of pennies. Would anyone else care to give? He doesn’t need first class or a sleeper birth, but sandwiches and coffee should be provided given that he is as passionate about those young girls as a televangelist on ‘blue-chew’. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/57 "2025-04-10T09:42:10Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > This pitting is stupid. Babale clearly does not support “trans genocide”. I’ve already made the point - and backed it up with examples - that Babale keeps deliberately misrepresenting with the intent to minimize, handwaving away, or simply ignoring evidence that what is happening to trans people is much, much worse than he keeps claiming it is. > [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > This is one of the most undeserved, bad faith pittings I have read. Gyrate is practically trolling at this point It is neither bad faith nor trolling. I’m sorry that you think so. > [@Lumpy](#): > > You won’t hear me praise Trump, but at this point I still think that his administration is at most fascism-lite. The key words there being “at this point”. **He has been in office less than three months**. > [@Lumpy](#): > > Without a doubt. But somehow I just can’t picture Hitler or Mussolini dealing with opposition by suing anyone. As has been pointed out several times recently, fascists will happily use the law to further their agenda when they can, and ignore it when they can’t. Both of which the current administration are doing. > [@CairoCarol](#): > > Do I agree with @Babale on everything? Not at all - but I see him arguing in good faith. I don’t think that people who don’t 100% agree with everything I believe are automatically worthy of scorn. My entire point is that he is in no way arguing in good faith. I’m fine with him having different opinions than me. It’s the repeated blatant lying and spinning that’s pissing me off. > [@Babale](#): > > But if I’m the only one bothered by his borderline masturbatory obsession I’ll just silently roll my eyes. Or better yet, teach myself to stop clicking “View Hidden Reply”. How will that differ from all your previous ignoring of my cites proving you to be a bad faith piece of shit liar? > [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Because some handful of people were complaining about wolves that weren’t there, nobody can ever mention wolves again? > > That theory’s likely to work out all too well for the wolves. Particularly when there’s evidence of people being eaten by wolves _right now_. > [@Lumpy](#): > > Have you ever been literally beaten bloody? By a merciless and sadistic authority figure? To the point where you literally start to tremble if something triggers that sense of helplessness and danger? I have. > > So given this terrible perspective, I believe that I can say with some authority that what the Trump administration is doing falls so far short of genuine fascism that I can only feel rage and scorn for the virtue signalers who haven’t the faintest idea what true oppression is. And this is the exact same bullshit Babale keeps doing. Multiple people have pointed out that this exact thing is happening to people now, yet you’re minimizing this as “virtue signalling”. For someone who claims to have suffered under fascism, you’re certainly doing a good job of making excuses for it. > [@Babale](#): > > So @Gyrate, does that answer your question? Did I miss what you were getting at? Does my answer prove I want to destroy all trans people? What’s the verdict, am I going to the reeducation camps? Now who’s engaging in ridiculous hyperbole? Funnily enough, John Oliver’s piece this week rightly points out that you can justify anything against trans people just by adding “in sports” to the end of the sentence, despite the fact that there’s no material difference between trans girls and cis girls in school sports, and at the elite level the respective governing bodies for each sport are themselves considering a fact-based approach to their rules on the inclusion of trans athletes. And this is a **deliberate** tactic in the anti-trans propaganda campaign. They tried “I’m not against trans people; I just don’t want them in my public restrooms” with limited success, but “I’m not against trans people; I just don’t want them in women’s sports” has gotten traction in a big way. It sounds so _reasonable_, right? It’s all about _fairness_ and _safety_, right? Except that it’s not. There is no sound basis for concern over trans girls and women in sports, either regarding fairness or safety. But this ginned-up controversy **has** achieved its goal of insinuating the idea that trans people are a threat that everyone else needs to be protected from into normal discourse by people who of course would never themselves dream of supporting discrimination. And the GOP have already used this thin edge of the wedge to cram through all the other horrific anti-trans policies and practices already discussed. And here you are, happily repeating right-wing anti-trans propaganda. How does that feel? Do you still think “I oppose trans genocide, but…” is a reasonable argument? > [@Babale](#): > > I don’t understand the question. Why exclude romantic partners and doctors? Because if the statement was “Trans people should be treated as the gender they identify with at all times, no questions asked, including by their doctors and by prospective romantic partners”, I think we could ALL agree that this is a VERY extremist position, right? Sure. And one that no one is actually advocating. Do you remember what Demontree’s original statement was, that you felt the need to qualify? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/58 "2025-04-10T13:37:14Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > My entire point is that he is in no way arguing in good faith. I’m fine with him having different opinions than me. It’s the repeated blatant lying and spinning that’s pissing me off. Seriously? Dude, you need to pull your head out of your own ass, you’re in DESPERATE need of some fresh air. If you seriously can’t imagine that I actually hold the position I hold, the same position that _most members of the Democratic Party hold,_ and the same position that the vast majority of Americans hold - if you can’t imagine someone holding THAT position in good faith - then you are not just high on your own supply, you’re overdosing. > [@Gyrate](#): > > How will that differ from all your previous ignoring of my cites proving you to be a bad faith piece of shit liar? What does that even MEAN? You posted cites that show that I don’t actually think trans athletes participating in women’s sports without restriction is unfair? What kind of cite shows what my internal mental state is? > [@Gyrate](#): > > Now who’s engaging in ridiculous hyperbole? Still the guy claiming there’s a genocide going on, I’d say. > [@Gyrate](#): > > Funnily enough, John Oliver’s piece this week rightly points out that you can justify anything against trans people just by adding “in sports” to the end of the sentence, despite the fact that there’s no material difference between trans girls and cis girls in school sports, and at the elite level the respective governing bodies for each sport are themselves considering a fact-based approach to their rules on the inclusion of trans athletes. I watched John’s piece - it was fine, I guess, for a progressive piece on the subject - and he did a good job dismantling the right’s false and exaggerated examples, which is great. He didn’t really address my particular objection to trans women in sports, though; in fact, there were a number of times when he said things like, “there definitely ARE differences at the top level of sports and that’s a conversation to have about professional sports and the like” which I am very glad he was willing to admit, and he’s absolutely right. > [@Gyrate](#): > > despite the fact that there’s no material difference between trans girls and cis girls in school sports, This specifically is EXACTLY what John Oliver was very careful NOT to say. First of all, when you say “school sports”, what are you talking about? If we’re talking about PE, then I agree. If we’re talking about, like, Elementary school (1st through 5th grade) or even middle school (6th through 7th or 8th), I agree. If we are talking about recreational sports, I agree. But if we are talking about a high school’s official “BLANK Team”, that IS _the highest level of competition_ available to children of that age; it feeds directly into university sports and professional sports; and we are into unfair territory. And citing studies that show that the advantage is mild, like John Oliver did, or saying “but not all winners will be trans women” DOES NOT ADDRESS THE POINT. It’s actually a VERY simple argument: 1. We split sports by sex. We do this for a reason - the differences between (cis)men and (cis)women are so big that in most sports fair competition between men and women is impossible. 2. The split by sex is based entirely on physical characteristics that each sex has, rather than on social differences. 3. After the age of puberty, and unless they transitioned before puberty, trans women have some level of advantage over women in sports. 4. While this advantage might be small, and might be outweighed by other non-sex-based differences between individual women, (and this is the key part of the argument), the SOURCE of that difference IS the physical difference between the sexes; therefore any advantage that stems FROM THAT SOURCE is unfair in the context of a sport that is split by sex. 5. Likewise, trans men have an advantage over cis women, because of medical treatment that, again, targets these specific differences between sexes. But trans men don’t generally have a problem with competing with men, so here everyone’s desires align (except the transphobes, but fuck em). > [@Gyrate](#): > > at the elite level the respective governing bodies for each sport are themselves considering a fact-based approach to their rules on the inclusion of trans athletes. To be clear, this is what I support; but here in California, for example, it is NOT currently the law of the land. Based on California’s official interpretation of Title IX, there is no physical transitioning requirement at all to participate in sports at colleges. This is not to say that people are going to pretend to be trans in order to win trophies. That’s, of course, a right wing boogeyman. The point is that a trans woman has an advantage over cis women. That remains true (according to the study cited by John Oliver on his show last night) even when the trans woman is genuinely trans (which I assume is the only sort of person who goes through with transitioning; I’d be very surprised to find out about even one case to the contrary). > [@Gyrate](#): > > And this is a **deliberate** tactic in the anti-trans propaganda campaign. They tried “I’m not against trans people; I just don’t want them in my public restrooms” with limited success, but “I’m not against trans people; I just don’t want them in women’s sports” has gotten traction in a big way. It sounds so _reasonable_, right? It’s all about _fairness_ and _safety_, right? That’s because public restrooms are divided for entirely social reasons, not physical reasons. There is no reason except transphobia to demand that restrooms exclude trans people. > [@Gyrate](#): > > Except that it’s not. There is no sound basis for concern over trans girls and women in sports, either regarding fairness or safety. I mean, you can declare so, but that’s not what John Oliver said on his show last night. The stats he talked about back up the concern I have, which you haven’t addressed at all. I agree with you that they address the concerns Tucker Carlson or that Payton Mcnabb liar have; you’ve done a great job dismantling those claims, while ignoring mine. That’s what’s called a ‘strawman’. > [@Gyrate](#): > > And here you are, happily repeating right-wing anti-trans propaganda. You should respond to what I actually write, not what you fever dream about. I haven’t repeated any right-wing propaganda whatsoever. > [@Gyrate](#): > > How does that feel? Being strawmanned and lied about feels pretty shitty ☹ thanks for asking! > [@Gyrate](#): > > Do you still think “I oppose trans genocide, but…” is a reasonable argument? That hasn’t been my argument, you dumb motherfucker. Maybe try reading for a change? > [@Gyrate](#): > > Sure. And one that no one is actually advocating. Do you remember what Demontree’s original statement was, that you felt the need to qualify? If your point is that she originally was talking about the term ‘transgenderism’, and the fact that I got into a discussion with Kimstu that spun off of that original discussion, and you’ve been imagining that I sign on to the idea that ‘transgenderism’ is some kind of nefarious ideology being pushed on our youth, then I guess you might be pleased to know that I wasn’t really engaging with that part of the discussion at all, because I have no idea what ‘transgenderism’ is supposed to be. I know it’s used as a sneer word, but as far as I can tell, it’s not really a coherent idea. I was more interested in the specific part of Kimstu’s claim that I quoted: > [@What is the maximum extent to which we are allowed to disagree with transgenderism (on the Dope)?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/52): > > For example, I doubt there is more than an extremely tiny minority of transgender-rights supporters who really believe that people should be treated in every area of life without regard for any aspects of birth-assigned sex, genetic or anatomical sex, etc. I think Kimstu’s claim, that only a tiny minority of transgender-rights supporters believe this, is true if we include sexual partners and doctors. But if we exclude those two things, but include sports, then it’s still a minority position among ‘trans rights supporters’ in the sense of people who generally support trans rights, but it’s very much NOT a minority position among ‘trans rights supporters’ in the sense of trans rights activists or communicators, or people whose views are in line with theirs. That’s why I asked Kimstu: > [@What is the maximum extent to which we are allowed to disagree with transgenderism (on the Dope)?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-is-the-maximum-extent-to-which-we-are-allowed-to-disagree-with-transgenderism-on-the-dope/1015807/53): > > Interesting! Can you name an area that you feel trans people should be treated as their birth sex for, regardless of their personal wishes? > > Can you name any area that involves someone _other than the trans person’s romantic partners and doctors_ identifying the trans person based on their sex assigned at birth rather than the sex they want to be identified with? > > Or would you withdraw all objections to this part of her argument if @DemonTree instead said: > > _people should be treated accordingly in every area of **PUBLIC** life without regard for aspects of biological sex, and various other things._ God, if this really HAS been about the fact that this conversation spun off a different conversation Kimstu had with someone else about the term ‘transgenderism’, that’s BEYOND stupid. I even tried to head off this idiocy by specifying “THIS PART of [Demontree’s] argument”. ---
**Author:** ![DavidNRockies](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidnrockies/32/6279_2.png) [@DavidNRockies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidNRockies)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/59 "2025-04-10T14:07:27Z")
I’m too tired to craft something anew, but would still like to reference a previous post (mine) on the “Fascism – are we or aren’t we” subject: > [@The argument that Trump will do whatever he wants and no one can stop him is really fucking boring](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/the-argument-that-trump-will-do-whatever-he-wants-and-no-one-can-stop-him-is-really-fucking-boring/1011527/66): > > Just because I’m having way too much fun with the threads on this topic … When COVID hit, far too many people (read: MAGAs) hammered home the low mortality rate, blindingly obviously ignoring that there are other negatives associated with a pandemic besides death – severe illness, hospitalization, long-term disability, and contagion to name a few. Ignoring the unbelievable strain on scarce resources and all the direct dollars it cost us all. Death is not the only bad thing a pandemic can caus… Also, another reference to Lawrence Britt’s 14 Characteristics of Fascism: > **[Fascism Anyone? | Free Inquiry](https://secularhumanism.org/2003/03/fascism-anyone/)** > > Free Inquiry readers may pause to read the “Affirmations of Humanism: A Statement of Principles” on the inside cover of the magazine. To a secular humanist, ... Like mass shooters, we always hear that “all the signs were there,” but those signs aren’t pathognomonic for a mass shooter – ie, maybe all mass shooters did the following five things before becoming mass shooters, but lots of kids also do those five things and never harm another soul. Ditto Fascism, IMHO. But we ignore these characteristics at our peril. And if your kid is pulling the wings off of flies and burning ants with a magnifying glass, get professional help. ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/60 "2025-04-10T14:42:09Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > But if we are talking about a high school’s official “BLANK Team”, that IS _the highest level of competition_ available to children of that age; it feeds directly into university sports and professional sports; and we are into unfair territory. This is not correct. My children (both teenagers) compete in tennis. On both school tennis teams and in amateur USTA events; this is rare. Most participants on school tennis teams do not play USTA events. And most players in USTA events do not play a school team. The school teams are _not_ a higher level competition in tennis. USTA seems to have a fairly progressive transgender policy. > On the league and recreational side of the equation, the USTA takes the position that we do not require confirmations of gender identity status. Above all, we do not want to be an obstacle to recreational participation. We seek to respect all individuals, and we take it on faith that players who compete under these rules are doing so not to gain a competitive advantage, but to enjoy participating in a manner in which they are comfortable. [https://www.usta.com/en/home/about-usta/who-we-are/national/transgender-inclusion-policy.html](https://www.usta.com/en/home/about-usta/who-we-are/national/transgender-inclusion-policy.html) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738.md?page=4)