# I Pit Babale **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 7, 2025, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738 "2025-04-07T14:59:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 37
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/721 "2026-01-04T13:31:26Z")
Maduro apologia? Cite? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/722 "2026-01-04T13:42:20Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Maduro apologia? Oh, so you _do_ agree that it’s a good thing that a horrible dictator like him was deposed, whether or not you agree that Trump should have been the one to do it in this particular way? ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/723 "2026-01-04T13:43:08Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > What am I wrong about there? That it wasn’t unilateral American action? Yep. Also that no regime change happened in Korea. > [@Babale](#): > > Neither was Iraq I didn’t say being wrong about the positive outcome was the _only_ thing you were wrong about. > [@Babale](#): > > the Maduro apologia Something _no-one’s_ done AFAICT. Opposition to criminal American action is not support for Maduro, you binary-thinking idiot. > [@Babale](#): > > his being gone is in fact a good thing. That’s not the same thing as a good outcome overall for Venezuelans. > [@Babale](#): > > that’s rich coming from Mr Colonialism Just because Israel _is_ a settler colony, just like its originators intended, doesn’t mean _all_ bad actors are cases of colonialism. I also have a antifascist lens and an anticapitalist one and a feminist one and a scientific one and an environmentalist one, where those apply. > [@Babale](#): > > oppressor/oppressed dynamics A sufficiently general framework you can apply it to any political stance at all. How convenient. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 1:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/724 "2026-01-04T13:48:43Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > anticapitalist Thanks for the reminder of _exactly_ how stupid you are. > [@MrDibble](#): > > A sufficiently general framework you can apply it to any political stance at all. No, you really can’t apply it to any political stance; the fact that you and your ilk force every single situation through that lens is exactly why you arrive at such nonsensical, idiotic conclusions. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/725 "2026-01-04T13:50:44Z")
If Maduro stepped down, that’d be great. He’s awful. Killing dozens to remove him, illegally, without any long term planning? Almost certainly a disaster. And the associated killings were monstrous atrocities. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/726 "2026-01-04T13:53:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > If Maduro stepped down, that’d be great. And if he doesn’t, whatever, let him kill as many Venezuelans as he likes as long as Andy doesn’t have to feel like his country got its hands dirty. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/727 "2026-01-04T13:59:07Z")
Whatever you say, Mr. Rumsfeld. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/728 "2026-01-04T14:01:05Z")
“Why can’t you guys see this is nothing like Iraq?” says the guy using literally the exact rationalizations and justifications Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz and co used for Iraq. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/729 "2026-01-04T14:04:59Z")
Is Iraq in the room with us right now? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/730 "2026-01-04T14:06:32Z")
No, but the exact rationalizations from Iraq are. Are you familiar with them? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/731 "2026-01-04T14:15:06Z")
I mean, vaguely, but I haven’t bitterly brooded over them for the last 23 years, as some people apparently have been. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/732 "2026-01-04T14:16:19Z")
Some of us are really bothered when our country causes so many deaths for no good reason. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 2:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/733 "2026-01-04T14:28:24Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > without any long term planning? Oh no, Trump has made the long term plan clear, steal Venezuela’s natural resources. Starting with ‘their’ oil which is actually American oil that somehow ended up under their jungle (we already stole the first tanker’s worth) and ending with all of North and South America being just America like God and Monroe intended. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/734 "2026-01-04T14:34:58Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > and ending with all of North and South America being just America like God and Monroe intended. What are you smoking and where can I get some? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/735 "2026-01-04T15:00:30Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Oh, so you _do_ agree that it’s a good thing that a horrible dictator like him was deposed, whether or not you agree that Trump should have been the one to do it in this particular way? You know what, i think Trump, despite having won the election legitimately, has grossly overstepped his legal role, has violated his oath of office, and is doing his best to destroy my country. But if China were to kidnap him and fly him to Guangzhou to be tried on some trumped-up charges, that would be a very bad thing. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/736 "2026-01-04T15:46:23Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Is Iraq in the room with us right now? Translation: “Please stop using relevant historical precedent to debunk my feeble bullshit”. > [@Babale](#): > > From everything I’ve seen, Venezuelans are overwhelmingly happy that Maduro is gone. What have you seen? [Was it like this?](https://bsky.app/profile/thetnholler.bsky.social/post/3mbm7lmpxpk2p) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/737 "2026-01-04T16:01:09Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > You know what, i think Trump, despite having won the election legitimately, has grossly overstepped his legal role, has violated his oath of office, and is doing his best to destroy my country. But if China were to kidnap him and fly him to Guangzhou to be tried on some trumped-up charges, that would be a very bad thing So if Trump succeeded in using the false slates of electors and the mob chanting “hang Mike Pence” to overturn the 2020 election and take illegitimate control of the government, you’d have been _upset_ if someone removed him from office? I guess that’s where we differ. I’d have been ecstatic that the upcoming civil war would no longer be necessary. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/738 "2026-01-04T16:02:05Z")
An end to the Maduro regime would be a good thing. But there’s two problems with that: First, just because an end to his regime would be good doesn’t mean that us being the ones to end it is good. And second, we didn’t even end his regime, because we left the country in control of his vice president and cabinet. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/739 "2026-01-04T16:02:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > An end to the Maduro regime would be a good thing. But there’s two problems with that: First, just because an end to his regime would be good doesn’t mean that us being the ones to end it is good. Agreed. > [@Chronos](#): > > And second, we didn’t even end his regime, because we left the country in control of his vice president and cabinet. Agreed. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 4, 2026, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/740 "2026-01-04T16:03:22Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > you’d have been _upset_ if someone removed him from office? No, but I’d have been upset if China removed him from office by sending military forces into the US and kidnapping him. The someone and the somehow matter. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738.md?page=36) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738.md?page=38)