# I Pit Babale **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 7, 2025, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738 "2025-04-07T14:59:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/61 "2025-04-10T14:49:42Z")
I actually think both Babale and Gyrate are making very valid points here. Babale’s position on the participation of trans women in women’s sports is nuanced and addresses legitimate concerns. OTOH, Babale should know that, as we’ve repeatedly seen on this very board, raging transphobes routinely introduce this topic as a wedge issue. They start out sounding reasonable, and then you give them some more rope and it turns out they’re hateful lunatics. Accordingly, it’s not at all surprising that raising this issue can be triggering for trans people and their allies, and that they aren’t quick to trust people claiming that they’re just really concerned about competitive balance in women’s sports. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/62 "2025-04-10T14:53:45Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > The school teams are _not_ a higher level competition in tennis. This is also true of volleyball, and (TTBOMK from my daughter’s BFF) track and field. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/63 "2025-04-10T14:54:45Z")
Yes, Pleonast is correct that, even before the high school level, the real elite athletes in the USA are competing primarily in privately organized “travel leagues” which aren’t connected with the school system at all. That’s where the university scouts will see them. If they choose to bother playing for school teams at all, it’s just for fun. Obviously this may vary somewhat by region and sport. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/64 "2025-04-10T15:05:34Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > To be clear, this is what I support; but here in California, for example, it is NOT currently the law of the land. Based on California’s official interpretation of Title IX, there is no physical transitioning requirement at all to participate in sports at colleges. Can you clarify who or what “California” is in this context? Did some trans person sue the NCAA for not allowing them to compete, and the California courts said the NCAA wasn’t allowed to exclude them? (I would oppose that decision) Or did some cis person sue the NCAA for allowing trans people to compete, and the court found for the NCAA? (I would support that decision) IANAL, but since Title IX is Federal law, I’m not sure why a California court would be called on to interpret it at all. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/65 "2025-04-10T15:15:44Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > OTOH, Babale should know that, as we’ve repeatedly seen on this very board, raging transphobes routinely introduce this topic as a wedge issue. They start out sounding reasonable, and then you give them some more rope and it turns out they’re hateful lunatics. Accordingly, it’s not at all surprising that raising this issue can be triggering for trans people and their allies, and that they aren’t quick to trust people claiming that they’re just really concerned about competitive balance in women’s sports. I get that, but that’s kind of my point. My position isn’t an extremist one; it’s the one most Democrats hold. When you treat it with that level of hostility, for example when Newsom expressed this position and got crucified for it on this board and elsewhere, I think that’s harmful to convincing people to support trans rights, it’s harmful to convincing people that transphobia is a problem, and it’s just generally a pretty shitty way to behave. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Yes, Pleonast is correct that, even before the high school level, the real elite athletes in the USA are competing primarily in privately organized “travel leagues” which aren’t connected with the school system at all. That’s where the university scouts will see them. If they choose to bother playing for school teams at all, it’s just for fun. > > Obviously this may vary somewhat by region and sport Yeah, you’re definitely right that this varies by sport. Football, for example, is on one extreme: the school football team is far and away the main event almost anywhere you go, in my experience. My high school had a few sports it was _extremely_ strong at, and these teams were very competitive and, afaik, the main place for kids in that age group to play these sports: men’s water polo, men and women’s lacrosse, etc. From talking to people at other schools, if they didn’t have strong teams in these areas, those sports were treated much more casually; and likewise, we had teams that were pretty rubbish, and they were treated less seriously. For example, there were sports where we had a varsity and two JV teams, plus a rec team; there were other sports where we only had a rec team. My wife was a soccer player, and while the main competitive team was the club team, every club player was also on their school’s team - it was the only way to get enough practice - and also on the school’s track and field team, because their coaches demanded they keep active in the off season - and track and field was far more competitive than soccer. In theory I think treating school sports that are taken more seriously one way and school sports that are more recreational another would be desirable. That said, I’m not sure from a policy perspective that it’s possible to draw a distinction there? The category the government uses here is any athletics program that uses public school funds, right? Maybe the split could be based on rec/JV/Varsity, but I’m not sure if these are official, legally defined categories? Maybe some standardization there would help. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/66 "2025-04-10T15:20:30Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Football, for example, is on one extreme: the school football team is far and away the main event almost anywhere you go, in my experience. Yeah, girls football is like a religion in parts of this country! ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/67 "2025-04-10T15:44:39Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > - We split sports by sex. We do this for a reason - the differences between (cis)men and (cis)women are so big that in most sports fair competition between men and women is impossible. > - The split by sex is based entirely on physical characteristics that each sex has, rather than on social differences. > - After the age of puberty, and unless they transitioned before puberty, trans women have some level of advantage over women in sports. > - While this advantage might be small, and might be outweighed by other non-sex-based differences between individual women, (and this is the key part of the argument), the SOURCE of that difference IS the physical difference between the sexes; therefore any advantage that stems FROM THAT SOURCE is unfair in the context of a sport that is split by sex. > - Likewise, trans men have an advantage over cis women, because of medical treatment that, again, targets these specific differences between sexes. But trans men don’t generally have a problem with competing with men, so here everyone’s desires align (except the transphobes, but fuck em). this is exactly right, and its funny that we don’t get any argument about other biologically based splits in sports. For example, boxing (and wrestling) are split into weight classes because it has rightly been determined that a 230 pound wrestler is (on average) going to have an overwhelming advantage in strength compared to a 120 pound wrestler, and thus a grossly unfair advantage in a head to head competition with them. You don’t hear people arguing that a 230 pounder should be able to compete in a 120 pound weight class. As a second example, we also have many sports leagues split by age, U12 soccer, U16 soccer, etc. Is anyone arguing that an 18 year old should be allowed to play in a U15 soccer league? No, because again, that is the exact difference we are trying to eliminate with the different leagues. Why then would you allow a trans woman (who has gone through puberty) to compete in a women’s league in these type of instances? Its just like the age and weight examples given above. We split the leagues based on sex because that is one of the differences that really matters in performance. And if you are going to allow it, and you believe trans women should be able to compete in women’s sports, then there really is no reason to have sports split by sex in the first place, because that distinction is being erased anyway. Let there simply be one division, open to males and females, and see how that goes. Is that something trans advocates would go for? Or do they really want the continued existence of separate mens and womens sports leagues, but just the ability for trans women to compete in whichever division they want? And if so, why? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/68 "2025-04-10T15:47:08Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Can you clarify who or what “California” is in this context? Did some trans person sue the NCAA for not allowing them to compete, and the California courts said the NCAA wasn’t allowed to exclude them? (I would oppose that decision) Or did some cis person sue the NCAA for allowing trans people to compete, and the court found for the NCAA? (I would support that decision) > > IANAL, but since Title IX is Federal law, I’m not sure why a California court would be called on to interpret it at all. Maybe it’s bad phrasing. Where I first heard of this specific aspect to the issue was on Newsom’s podcast, and he described the law I will cite as a bill that determined California’s interpretation of Title IX; but in other places the terminology is closer to, AB1266 _expanded_ Title IX protections. And while Title IX determines where federal funds go, my layman understanding is that California imposes the same rules on bodies that receive state funds, and so if they expand Title IX or interpret it more broadly, this would mean they control state funding based on this interpretation or expansion. IE, a school that violates AB1266 will not receive CA state funds, even if it receives federal funding. Or actually, if I’m reading this right, they _would_ lose federal funding, because California receives the federal funds and then distributes them to schools; so they could lose federal funds as well? That I’m even less clear on. But regardless of the enforcement mechanism - the state says, “don’t do this thing, or else”. Here is the bill: > **[Bill Text - AB-1266 Pupil rights: sex-segregated school programs and...](https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201320140AB1266)** > > AB 1266 Pupil rights: sex-segregated school programs and activities. And the California School Board Association guidance on how to interpret it: [www.csba.org/Advocacy/~/media/CSBA/Files/Advocacy/ELA/2014\_03\_AB1266\_FinalGuidance.ashx&ved=2ahUKEwi\_zf6K482MAxWgJEQIHV-\_PQsQFnoECEwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0nBDTTXbb7pVpDsqP2Be33](http://www.csba.org/Advocacy/~/media/CSBA/Files/Advocacy/ELA/2014_03_AB1266_FinalGuidance.ashx&ved=2ahUKEwi_zf6K482MAxWgJEQIHV-_PQsQFnoECEwQAQ&usg=AOvVaw0nBDTTXbb7pVpDsqP2Be33) Here’s the relevant bit from that PDF: > [@](#): > > Upon request, districts should allow students to participate in athletics according to their gender identity in a manner that is consistent with the CIF bylaws. And the CIF bylaws in question are Section 300.D - > [@](#): > > D. Gender Identity Participation Participation in interscholastic athletics is a valuable part of the educational experience for all students. All students should have the opportunity to participate in CIF activities in a manner that is consistent with their gender identity, irrespective of the gender listed on a student’s records. (Approved February 2013 Federated Council/Editorial May 2022) There are safeguards in the rules against people pretending to be trans to get on the team. That’s not the concern; I’d be very surprised to find out it has ever happened, even a single digit number of times. But there is absolutely no requirement for any sort of medical transitioning. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/69 "2025-04-10T15:48:02Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > Why then would you allow a trans woman (who has gone through puberty) to compete in a women’s league in these type of instances? And trans women that have not gone through puberty because of puberty blockers? ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/70 "2025-04-10T16:18:00Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Based on California’s official interpretation of Title IX, there is no physical transitioning requirement at all to participate in sports at colleges. > > This is not to say that people are going to pretend to be trans in order to win trophies. That’s, of course, a right wing boogeyman. The point is that a trans woman has an advantage over cis women. That remains true (according to the study cited by John Oliver on his show last night) even when the trans woman is genuinely trans (which I assume is the only sort of person who goes through with transitioning; I’d be very surprised to find out about even one case to the contrary). Serious question: How many trans women are playing in women’s sports in California colleges? ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 4:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/71 "2025-04-10T16:18:11Z")
Thanks for the detailed answer. I don’t like the legislature making such a rule. I think it would have been better if they’d set up a commission of sports administrators and medical professionals to devise a more nuanced system that addresses the specific situation of each sport and each age group. It’s not a perfect solution, since whatever group is unhappy about the commission’s rulings is going to blame the legislature for appointing the wrong people to the commission. But what I think is best for athletes (and, more importantly, for Democrats) is to remove this decision-making process as far as possible from partisan influence. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/72 "2025-04-10T16:24:47Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Seriously? Dude, you need to pull your head out of your own ass, you’re in DESPERATE need of some fresh air. > > If you seriously can’t imagine that I actually hold the position I hold, the same position that _most members of the Democratic Party hold,_ and the same position that the vast majority of Americans hold - if you can’t imagine someone holding THAT position in good faith - then you are not just high on your own supply, you’re overdosing. So apart from a feeble attempt at _argumentam ad populam_, you’ve got nothing. Got it. > [@Babale](#): > > What does that even MEAN? You posted cites that show that I don’t actually think trans athletes participating in women’s sports without restriction is unfair? What kind of cite shows what my internal mental state is? I mean like where you asserted that trans people were only being figuratively “pushed back into the closet” and then got schooled about how the GOP were working to literally criminalize them and then you just blithely continued with your bullshit. Or your dismissal of the DEI purge as mere “virtue signalling”. Or the time you said this: > [@Babale](#): > > > [@Gyrate](#): > > > > Now who’s engaging in ridiculous hyperbole? > > Still the guy claiming there’s a genocide going on, I’d say. Deny, ignore, minimize. I don’t think it’s all that difficult to guess your mental state. > [@Babale](#): > > I watched John’s piece - it was fine, I guess, for a progressive piece on the subject - and he did a good job dismantling the right’s false and exaggerated examples, which is great. He didn’t really address my particular objection to trans women in sports, though; in fact, there were a number of times when he said things like, “there definitely ARE differences at the top level of sports and that’s a conversation to have about professional sports and the like” which I am very glad he was willing to admit, and he’s absolutely right. Yes, you have “concerns”. I’ve already covered that point. > [@Babale](#): > > The point is that a trans woman has an advantage over cis women. That remains true (according to the study cited by John Oliver on his show last night) even when the trans woman is genuinely trans (which I assume is the only sort of person who goes through with transitioning; I’d be very surprised to find out about even one case to the contrary). Are you **sure** you watched John Oliver’s piece? Because he explained in detail 1) that there are very few studies and virtually all of the dozen that exist have tiny sample sizes, and 2) there are also many _disadvantages_ to being a trans woman in women’s sports. Did you fall asleep at that point? > [@Babale](#): > > You should respond to what I actually write, not what you fever dream about. I haven’t repeated any right-wing propaganda whatsoever. I _am_ responding to what you write. And I explained in detail how you were doing it. Deny, minimize, ignore… Here’s the important bit of what I wrote that you somehow left out: > [@](#): > > But this ginned-up controversy **has** achieved its goal of insinuating the idea that trans people are a threat that everyone else needs to be protected from into normal discourse by people who of course would never themselves dream of supporting discrimination. And the GOP have already used this thin edge of the wedge to cram through all the other horrific anti-trans policies and practices already discussed. And here you are, having “concerns” about a non-issue that exactly mirror the right-wing narratives you claim you don’t follow and which weren’t the concerns of “most members of the Democratic Party” until Chris Rufo and his pals started up this propaganda campaign some years back. It isn’t just about the extreme “men will pretend to be women to win awards/use women’s locker rooms/etc” claims. It’s _all_ of these narratives designed to portray trans women in particular as a threat to cis women and girls, and to suggest that treating trans women as women is perpetuating an injustice. Including the “concern” you have. And as I said, these “just expressing concerns” tactics have facilitated the implementation of a lot of massively cruel laws against trans people already (you know - the ones you seem to have a persistent ignorance of) and the right keep right on pushing virtual blood libels against the trans community (as the recent White House statement I posted shows) in order to drive more and more draconian laws. > [@Babale](#): > > I mean, you can declare so, but that’s not what John Oliver said on his show last night. The stats he talked about back up the concern I have, which you haven’t addressed at all. You sure about that? > [@Babale](#): > > I agree with you that they address the concerns Tucker Carlson or that Payton Mcnabb liar have; you’ve done a great job dismantling those claims, while ignoring mine. That’s what’s called a ‘strawman’. Yes I can see you’re intimately familiar with strawmen. > [@Babale](#): > > That hasn’t been my argument, you dumb motherfucker. Maybe try reading for a change? Sure looks that way. Maybe try reading your own posts sometime? > [@Babale](#): > > Being strawmanned and lied about feels pretty shitty ☹ thanks for asking! So why do you keep doing it to others? ---
**Author:** ![sciurophobic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cab0a1/32.png) [@sciurophobic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sciurophobic)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/73 "2025-04-10T16:25:27Z")
> [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](#): > > Why then would you allow a trans woman (who has gone through puberty) to compete in a women’s league in these type of instances? Because they might not be any bigger or stronger than a cis woman? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/74 "2025-04-10T16:25:51Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Serious question: How many trans women are playing in women’s sports in California colleges? I have no idea. I’m sure it’s not a big number, because both high level athletes and trans people are tiny groups compared to the general population. What does that have to do with whether the law as it stands in California is fair? If there was a law banning trans athletes in California, or if you were looking at a red state blanket ban law, would you say “Serious question: how many athletes are even blocked from competing by this law”? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/75 "2025-04-10T16:28:00Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Because they might not be any bigger or stronger than a cis woman? There are cis men who aren’t any bigger or stronger than a cis woman. There are people in one wrestling weight category who are weaker and have less reach then people who fall into a lower weight category. You can find any arbitrary numbers of other examples. Men’s and women’s sports are not split because of differences in the social categories “man” and “woman”, they are split because of physiological differences that have to do with sex assigned at birth, not gender identity. ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/76 "2025-04-10T16:29:56Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Because they might not be any bigger or stronger than a cis woman? What if an 18 year old was not any bigger and stronger than a 13 year old. Should they be allowed to play in a U13 soccer league? These types of questions are not dealt with on a case by case basis, that would be completely impractical and, of course, subjective to at least some degree. There is a blanket rule because there is a biological advantage _in general_ and in most cases. could you imagine if a 17 year old was playing in the little league world series. Would you excuse that on the basis of him kinda being bad, and not any better than the 12 year olds? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/77 "2025-04-10T16:32:43Z")
> [@sciurophobic](#): > > Because they might not be any bigger or stronger than a cis woman? The hypotheticals here all seem to involve some weird visualization of trans women as being exactly like men physiologically but in a wig and a dress. Except that hormone therapy does tend to reduce muscle mass, stamina and aerobic capacity in trans women, to the point that it isn’t remotely a given that trans women will naturally be bigger or stronger than cis women athletes _even if they once were_. A reminder to all that swimmer and professional victim Riley Gaines is whining about the unfairness of competing against a trans woman who **tied for fifth place with her**. Hardly a resounding victory, and what evidence there is of other trans women in high school and college sports does not support the idea that trans women have an inherent natural advantage. ---
**Author:** ![SunUp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ea5d25/32.png) [@SunUp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SunUp)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/78 "2025-04-10T16:38:59Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > Serious question: How many trans women are playing in women’s sports in California colleges? There was one volleyball player who was claimed to be trans at San Jose State during the 2024 season. Made for quite a few headlines on many right-wing noise generation sites. Many teams scheduled to play forfeited once the brouhaha started. [ESPN has a good, though long, summary of the entire season.](https://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/42549609/inside-san-jose-state-university-2024-volleyball-season-gender-fairness-safety) A few quotes from the very long article: > “These biological women are hitting the ball just as hard or maybe, probably, harder and jumping even higher and all these things. That’s kind of the conversation I’ve been hearing, is, ‘Yeah, this woman at San Jose State, yes, she might be transgender, but that doesn’t make her this superhuman athlete that’s crushing other people.’” > Anderson grew up in the same area as the San Jose State senior and has known her since Anderson was 13. Anderson said she learned the player was transgender when they were both in high school. The San Jose State senior played girls club volleyball as well as girls high school volleyball. I would guess, from this last, that the player had used puberty blockers from an early age and was not likely to be a safety problem for other athletes on the court. Which gives some indication that safety and fairness isn’t really the issue. Also, and relevant to your question: > According to one NCAA source, of the approximately 500,000 NCAA athletes, no more than .01% identify as transgender. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/79 "2025-04-10T16:39:57Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Thanks for the detailed answer. I don’t like the legislature making such a rule. I think it would have been better if they’d set up a commission of sports administrators and medical professionals to devise a more nuanced system that addresses the specific situation of each sport and each age group. It’s not a perfect solution, since whatever group is unhappy about the commission’s rulings is going to blame the legislature for appointing the wrong people to the commission. But what I think is best for athletes (and, more importantly, for Democrats) is to remove this decision-making process as far as possible from partisan influence. Yeah, I agree with basically all of this. And also, I don’t think we should have a one time commission and then set things in stone. All these studies that get cited keep saying, there’s not enough info, there is very limited data, etc - and they are correct - so let’s authorize sporting bodies to make these determinations, and let them research and determine accordingly, and adjust their determinations as more info comes in. > [@Gyrate](#): > > Are you **sure** you watched John Oliver’s piece? Because he explained in detail 1) that there are very few studies and virtually all of the dozen that exist have tiny sample sizes, and 2) there are also many _disadvantages_ to being a trans woman in women’s sports. Did you fall asleep at that point? Disadvantaged _compared to cis men_, you dishonest piece of shit. He certainly didn’t cite any studies that show that trans women have disadvantages compared to _cis female athletes_, dipshit. ---
**Author:** ![We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@We\_re\_wolves\_not\_werewolves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/We_re_wolves_not_werewolves)\ **Post date:** [April 10, 2025, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/80 "2025-04-10T16:40:29Z")
so what are you proposing? Let trans women compete in women’s leagues and then consider the individual results after the fact. If they lose, then they clearly don’t have an unfair advantage so its ok and the results stand. If they win, then clearly they had an unfair advantage and you disqualify them? Sounds like a great idea and fair to everyone! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738.md?page=5)