# I Pit Babale **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 7, 2025, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738 "2025-04-07T14:59:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 43
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/841 "2026-09-04T13:13:10Z")
With the problem being that all of their attention and support for being against an ethnic nation state (and squishy to define “Jewish” as an ethnicity) is reserved for the only Jewish one. That one, one under existential threat, gets the full brunt of their antipathy and no other. Yeah that gets the “yeah sure.” ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/842 "2026-09-04T13:16:41Z")
I guess, but currently the only “Ethnic” nation state actively committing ethnic cleansing in pursuit of “ethno”-nationalism with U.S. support is Israel, so it would be logical to direct most of their attention there. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 1:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/843 "2026-09-04T13:20:49Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > > But I haven’t come across any significant portion that makes me feel uncomfortable the way the Israeli government and Trump administration’s “Zionism” does. Which doesn’t mean they don’t exist – I just don’t see them from any significant groups. For example – I don’t see any common description of Hamas as merely a “Pro-Palestinian” organization. That’s the trouble with relying on popular views (or absence thereof) by “significant groups” for moral conclusions. Hamas isn’t merely a “Pro-Palestinian” organization. They are explicitly a “Pro-Palestine” organization, as LHoD pointed out above. And Hamas being a Pro-Palestinian arm of resistance is not a novel or uncommon concept. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 1:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/844 "2026-09-04T13:38:57Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > I don’t understand, correct me if I’m wrong but Zionism is the notion that Jews deserve a Nation-State of their own, right? so anybody who’s again Ethnic Nation-States would by definition by anti-Zionist without the need of a shred of antisemitism. Asked and answered already: > [@Babale](#): > > Anti-Zionists have no problem with individual nations based on specific religious or ethnic membership - you know, like _the vast majority of countries outside the New World_. Nobody is against the concept of Thailand or Egypt or Italy. > > That sorry excuse for anti-Zionism is about as believable as “All Lives Matter”. Like, yes, obviously, they do - that’s not why you’re out here shouting “All Lives Matter” at BLM protestors, though. > > If you show me an Anti-Zionist whose anti-Israeli activities are proportional to their activities against the 57 Muslim countries and 21 Christian countries (so that would be 1.2% of their activism, not counting countries that officially follow non-Abrahamic faiths) and I will believe you if you tell me they are not anti-Semitic. > > But every anti-Zionist I’ve seen campaigns against the one Jewish state 100% of the time and has no issue with any state of any other religion. Except the secular United States of America, of course. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/845 "2026-09-04T13:46:17Z")
Again none of those nations is currently engaged in ethnic cleansing with U.S. support. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/846 "2026-09-04T13:49:00Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > Again none of those nations is currently engaged in ethnic cleansing with U.S. support So you only care about _this_ issue as opposed to all the _other_ ones (that are _actually happening_) because of the deep personal connection and sense of responsibility that you feel towards the actions of the United States? That’s a bit odd for an Argentinian, don’t you think? 🤔 ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/847 "2026-09-04T13:49:43Z")
I wasn’t talking about myself, I was talking about anti-zionist, me not being one it doesn’t apply to me. (In fact I used to be a zionist, now I’m neutral) ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/848 "2026-09-04T13:50:18Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > I wasn’t talking about myself, I was talking about anti-zionist Most anti-Zionists aren’t American. > [@Frodo](#): > > me not being one it doesn’t apply to me. Well, that’s a relief! ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/849 "2026-09-04T13:51:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Most anti-Zionists aren’t American. And? If the pincipal world power supports one act of ethnic cleansing I can see people giving more attention to that than to others. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/850 "2026-09-04T13:59:04Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > And? If the pincipal world power supports one act of ethnic cleansing I can see people giving more attention to that than to others The #2 world power is engaged in the _actual_ ethnic cleansing and _actual_ cultural genocide of the Uyghur people. They literally _[bragged about how well they did erasing Islam in Xinjiang in reaction to the Gaza war](https://www.newsweek.com/china-xinjiang-uyghur-israel-palestian-hamas-gaza-1839440)_. I’ve never heard an anti-Zionist talk about this issue. The #3 world power is engaged in _actual_ ethnic cleansing and genocide of the remnants of the Ukrainian people who survived their last attempt to cleanse the east of Ukraine. Not only do anti-Zionists ignore the issue, they almost universally _blame Ukraine and the US for provoking Russia into a perfectly understandable defensive response to “nAtO aGgReSsIoN”._ If you believe that their opposition to the existence of Israel is based in anything but anti-Semitism, I have a bridge to sell you. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/851 "2026-09-04T13:59:53Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > So you only care about _this_ issue as opposed to all the _other_ ones (that are _actually happening_) because of the deep personal connection and sense of responsibility that you feel towards the actions of the United States? > > That’s a bit odd for an Argentinian, don’t you think? 🤔 Babs is unable to fathom that someone might be anti-ethnic-cleansing _everywhere_. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/852 "2026-09-04T14:00:20Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Not only do anti-Zionists ignore the issue, they almost universally _blame Ukraine and the US for provoking Russia into a perfectly understandable defensive response to “nAtO aGgReSsIoN”._ This is a lie. In fact, I bet Babs can’t find a single Doper anti-Zionist who blames Ukraine and the US for the Russian invasion. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/853 "2026-09-04T14:00:46Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Not only do anti-Zionists ignore the issue, they almost universally _blame Ukraine and the US for provoking Russia into a perfectly understandable defensive response to “nAtO aGgReSsIoN”._ If you believe this is true, I’m sure the bridge you have to sell is one you just bought off someone else. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/854 "2026-09-04T14:01:33Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > The #2 world power is engaged in the _actual_ ethnic cleansing and _actual_ cultural genocide of the Uyghur people. They literally _[bragged about how well they did erasing Islam in Xinjiang in reaction to the Gaza war](https://www.newsweek.com/china-xinjiang-uyghur-israel-palestian-hamas-gaza-1839440)_. I’ve never heard an anti-Zionist talk about this issue. Have you started a thread about it? If not, why not? Do you not care about the issue? Why aren’t you posting about it every day? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/855 "2026-09-04T14:02:18Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > If you believe this is true, I’m sure the bridge you have to sell is one you just bought off someone else I like how you accuse me of lying but you don’t show any examples of prominent anti-Zionists supporting Ukraine. Because _they don’t_. They’re campist pieces of shit, like the DSA. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 2:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/856 "2026-09-04T14:03:23Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I like how you accuse me of lying but you don’t show any examples of prominent anti-Zionists supporting Ukraine. This is trivially easy – AOC and Mamdani. Probably the two most popular and well known anti-Zionists in the US right now. Babs is a liar and a coward. Still a coward of [babale-level](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/795), almost unmatched among humanity, for being afraid to talk about this support for the Iran war _while anonymous on the internet_. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/857 "2026-09-04T14:04:23Z")
And none of those powers can be actually moved by any kind of political movement because they are not democratic. That said there’s a point among all that, people should care about other less publicized ethnic cleansing matters. But there is only one with the support of the principal world power which is also (for now) a democracy. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/858 "2026-09-04T14:11:17Z")
> [@Frodo](#): > > And none of those powers can be actually moved by any kind of political movement because they are not democratic. Well, indirectly, Russia’s genocide in Ukraine can be stopped through greater military aid to Ukraine and even more direct intervention - and these are contentious political issues in both the US and in Europe. So while protesting against Russian actions in those countries might not do anything, pushing for greater and more direct aid to Ukraine is absolutely something one could do if they cared about the genocide there. But that’s not what we see in practice. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/859 "2026-09-04T14:12:43Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > But that’s not what we see in practice. In practice we see the biggest resistance to aiding Ukraine on the far right. Trump, Netanyahu, and Putin are all good pals. ---
**Author:** ![Frodo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/frodo/32/302_2.png) [@Frodo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frodo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2026, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/860 "2026-09-04T14:12:48Z")
Weird you have 2 examples of anti-zionists supporting Ukraine above. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738.md?page=42) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738.md?page=44)