# I Pit Babale **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 7, 2025, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738 "2025-04-07T14:59:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 53
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1041 "2026-09-14T18:22:31Z")
So your claims are that Iran’s nuclear program is not entirely destroyed. Your cites support your claims. But I’ve never made claims to the contrary. I just think a damaged Iranian nuclear program can only be a good thing. So I don’t know what “evidence” you’re crowing victory about. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1042 "2026-09-14T18:27:07Z")
That it was dumb to attack Iran. That the very minor damage we did is massively outweighed by the damage the attacks did to American relationships and reputation. Even our military is looking weak. The vaunted and mighty US military, can’t even take out a 3rd rate power’s nuke program… Can’t even defeat them in a war we started! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1043 "2026-09-14T18:33:12Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Maybe you could try, just a teensy bit harder, to not make negative assertions about me if you’re not prepared to back them up with cites? Allow me to explain. See, I made a self-deprecating joke about myself saying that I’m dumber at chess than Pete Hegseth. Whether or not that’s the case is irrelevant. It was a generous offer, on my part, to take down the heated rhetoric. But you still made it all about you. Which leads me to think one of two things: a) that either you’re bad at reading social cues, or, b) you’re just a self-involved, insecure prick I’m sure there’s an excluded middle in there, but I don’t know how much I care at this point. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1044 "2026-09-14T18:33:26Z")
Seriously, “damage to the nuke program can only be a good thing”… sounds like a GOP Senator. You really think that’s all that happened? There was no damage to US reputation, relationships, no chance of blowback? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1045 "2026-09-14T18:34:10Z")
Forgive me for being very sensitive about baseless claims against me as a person! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1046 "2026-09-14T18:34:57Z")
Get off the cross. We need the wood. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1047 "2026-09-14T18:37:33Z")
Wait, if I’m Jesus for asking you to not make baseless claims about me, does that make you Stalin for making those baseless claims? If we’re trading ridiculous hyperbole… Is it really, really that hard to just say “I’m sorry, I’ll try to do better”? You know, like I apologized an hour back? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1048 "2026-09-14T18:44:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > That the very minor damage we did is massively outweighed by the damage the attacks did to American relationships and reputation. > > Even our military is looking weak. The vaunted and mighty US military, can’t even take out a 3rd rate power’s nuke program… Can’t even defeat them in a war we started! Who are you even arguing with? It isn’t me. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Is it really, really that hard to just say “I’m sorry, I’ll try to do better”? Do what better? (I already hate myself for asking…) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1049 "2026-09-14T18:47:00Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > If you’re asking whether I’m mad they bombed Iranian nuclear facilities. No. This is what I’m arguing with. Though maybe you’re not mad because you’re not American and thus don’t care about American reputation and relationships. If so, then I withdraw my criticism. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1050 "2026-09-14T18:47:31Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Do what better? (I already hate myself for asking…) Maybe to try to not make negative claims about me personally that you’re not prepared to backup with cites? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1051 "2026-09-14T18:48:07Z")
JFC. Get over yourself. FFS. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1052 "2026-09-14T18:49:14Z")
You asked… but carry on, then.. And I’ll carry on thinking that you’re a dishonorable person. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1053 "2026-09-14T18:51:31Z")
I’ve held multiple passports in my life. Including American. I like it here. It’s nice. Also, my kid is currently in the US Navy deployed a hair away from that goddamn shit-show. So yeah, I feel some kind of way about it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1054 "2026-09-14T18:54:06Z")
Your kid is near harm’s way and you’re _still_ not mad we did that stupid bombing? Wow. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1055 "2026-09-14T18:58:36Z")
I’ve very much enjoyed this conversation, by the way. My annoyance at the false, baseless personal attacks is outweighed by the fun in calling out those baseless attacks and digging into your strange views on Iran. Most fun I’ve had on public transportation in ages! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1056 "2026-09-14T19:02:05Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Most fun I’ve had on public transportation in ages! I knew it. You fucking missed me. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1057 "2026-09-14T19:04:44Z")
I did indeed! ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1058 "2026-09-14T20:48:39Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > How does this conflict with my post? Basically all I was saying is that the Israeli government is colossally corrupt, morally, ethically, financially, and probably in every other way And I disagree with the assessment that there is “(perhaps) a very small handful of public servants motivated by actual security for Israel and nothing else” … my guess is that it is a large amount of the tank and file public servants, even if I think their decisions are bad ones. Bibi is criminal and he has some real works of trash in positions of power, but public servants is a big brushstroke that hits generals on record objecting to various decisions and more. It’s similar to the difference between saying Trump and much of who he has appointed are crooks and saying there are only a handful of public servants in America who are not corrupt. In any case the hate by many of Israel, the characterization of Israel as essentially the Death Star against the Rebel Alliance long predates Bibi, as long as he’s been a Force, and will continue after he is gone. “Anti-Zionism” is not new. But I can’t keep with the two of you. You may want to just get a room. > [@puzzlegal](#): > > most of us can agree it’s a terrible thing, and to the extent we have any influence, we should attempt to stop it. Yeah trying to focus on that was my intent. Oh well. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2026, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1059 "2026-09-14T21:11:03Z")
> [@DSeid](#): > > And I disagree with the assessment that there is “(perhaps) a very small handful of public servants motivated by actual security for Israel and nothing else” … my guess is that it is a large amount of the tank and file public servants, even if I think their decisions are bad ones. Bibi is criminal and he has some real works of trash in positions of power, but public servants is a big brushstroke that hits generals on record objecting to various decisions and more. It’s similar to the difference between saying Trump and much of who he has appointed are crooks and saying there are only a handful of public servants in America who are not corrupt. Okay. I wasn’t thinking the entire public work force – more the elected officials, cabinet, political appointees, etc. Most of those affiliated with the coalition government are moral scum. Just like the Republicans in the US government. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [September 15, 2026, 7:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1060 "2026-09-15T07:49:28Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > One can talk about the Israeli government being far-right and criminal without mentioning the Nazi party. I cannot think of any reason why Nazis would be remotely relevant. Nor in Sudan, etc. The relevance is that it is that said far-right party was responsible for the prototypical cultural example of a genocide in people’s minds. I agree it isn’t entirely necessary to bring up, but it naturally will be because of that. Same as comparing Trump to that party, or ICE to the SA. If I knew of another genocide that people passionately care about in the same way that the Gazan genocide protestors care about that genocide, I would have referenced that instead. It has not seemed like other Dopers comparing to either of those things have gotten this visceral a reaction. And I and most people I see using the terminology are too young to have the visceral reaction to the level DSeid did, and thus I did not anticipate it being that bad for him. For that, @DSeid, I am genuinely sorry. I do think that may be part of the disconnect. These people aren’t H-deniers, but they also see it as a genocide that maybe worse than others, but still a genocide, and categorize genocide denial of any kind as the same sort of thing. They’ll also ask why Holodomor denial is considered acceptable, for example. My goal is to describe what I’ve seen. Personally, I don’t think the word “genocide” matters all that much at all, but I’m actually one of the less emotionally reactive people compared to the people I’m talking about. To them, it’s a shibboleth. Using other words can work, but denying them that word is seen as leaving room for denial of the awfulness. They’re very highly empathic. I notice a high emotional reactivity that I don’t think a lot of older people get. I again am on the lower end. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738.md?page=52) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738.md?page=54)