# I Pit Babale **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 7, 2025, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738 "2025-04-07T14:59:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 74
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1461 "2026-10-26T16:20:38Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Wow! I hadn’t recalled this. Quite a stark change. ROFLMAO, that’s a good one. What exactly do you think I changed my position on? Be specific. I think what’s _actually_ happening is that you’ve constructed a straw man of what you think my positions now are, based on a mentally deficient populist brand of “If you don’t want to declare total war on the Billionaire Class, you luuuuurve billionaires”; and then when you dig up old posts of mine that don’t match your strawman, you spaz out thinking you found some sort of gotcha. I am less willing to provide cover for illiberal leftists like the DSA nowadays having realized that they aren’t just idiotic but well meaning progressives who don’t know what socialism is but actually people who think that government should own the means of production. But that doesn’t have anything to do with Israel; it has to do with them having gained steam and me actually listening to what they themselves describe their positions as. And I was never pro Socialism; I just mistakenly assumed that no one else was either. I’ve also spoken about how Trump’s win in 2024 made me reconsider the wisdom of slogans like “Defund the Police”. In 2020 I was there explaining that “Defund doesn’t actually mean Defund it means create different programs and blah blah blah”, but I’ve since considered two factors that I didn’t consider at that time: 1. there genuinely _are_ people who want to _actually_ defund the police and I don’t want to whitewash those ideas or make them acceptable 2. the slogan reads to voters like _you_ want to Defund the Police as well and by the time you give your 20 minute explanation of why Defund doesn’t mean Defund you’ve already lost their vote. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1462 "2026-10-26T16:22:10Z")
Please have the common decency not to interrupt my spaz. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1463 "2026-10-26T16:23:47Z")
Gotcha, so you got nothing. Makes sense. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1464 "2026-10-26T16:23:55Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > you spaz out thinking you found some sort of gotcha Like this? > [@Babale](#): > > I am less willing to provide cover for illiberal leftists like the DSA nowadays having realized that they aren’t just idiotic but well meaning progressives who don’t know what socialism is but actually people who think that government should own the means of production. But that doesn’t have anything to do with Israel; it has to do with them having gained steam and me actually listening to what they themselves describe their positions as. And I was never pro Socialism; I just mistakenly assumed that no one else was either. Both building strawmen and projection are kind of your brand. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1465 "2026-10-26T16:24:32Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > Both building strawmen and projection are kind of your brand. What’s the strawman there? Be specific. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1466 "2026-10-26T16:24:45Z")
And yet you continue to harsh my spaz. Bad form! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1467 "2026-10-26T16:26:11Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I think what’s _actually_ happening is that you’ve constructed a straw man of what you think my positions now are, based on a mentally deficient populist brand of “If you don’t want to declare total war on the Billionaire Class, you luuuuurve billionaires”; and then when you dig up old posts of mine that don’t match your strawman, you spaz out thinking you found some sort of gotcha. > > I am less willing to provide cover for illiberal leftists like the DSA nowadays having realized that they aren’t just idiotic but well meaning progressives who don’t know what socialism is but actually people who think that government should own the means of production. But that doesn’t have anything to do with Israel; it has to do with them having gained steam and me actually listening to what they themselves describe their positions as. And I was never pro Socialism; I just mistakenly assumed that no one else was either. This is an amusing pair of paragraphs. In the first, he says “I haven’t changed my positions, you’re just incorrectly strawmanning my beliefs!” And then, in the second, he says “well okay I did change my positions but it’s because of those damn evil leftists!” The cognitive dissonance continues to entertain! ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1468 "2026-10-26T16:27:05Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > What’s the strawman there? Be specific. Oh, that’s just you spazzing out thinking you’d found a gotcha. We’ve already covered your strawmen many times over, most recently this one: > [@Babale](#): > > I am struggling to read this in any way other than a poorly veiled “Jewish financiers control the world” meme. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1469 "2026-10-26T16:27:33Z")
Gotcha, so you also got nothing. Cool. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1470 "2026-10-26T16:29:22Z")
I have exactly the evidence I presented, but then ignoring any evidence you don’t like is also your brand. Have you _ever_ been capable of having an honest conversation? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1471 "2026-10-26T16:31:23Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I have exactly the evidence I presented, but then ignoring any evidence you don’t like is also your brand. You haven’t presented any evidence, fuckwad. Do you have an alternative explanation for how one is supposed to read “Billionaires love Israel” when that’s pretty obviously not true _and_ when it pretty obviously ties into classic antisemic tropes? Or do you just have more ad hominims? > [@Gyrate](#): > > Have you _ever_ been capable of having an honest conversation? Have you? What values do you think I’ve changed my position on? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1472 "2026-10-26T16:32:38Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Do you have an alternative explanation for how one is supposed to read “Billionaires love Israel” when that’s pretty obviously not true _and_ when it pretty obviously ties into classic antisemic tropes? Elon Musk has been very supportive of the Israeli government since Oct 7th. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1473 "2026-10-26T16:34:54Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > What values do you think I’ve changed my position on? Before Oct 7th, there’s no way you would have _cheered on_ Trump and Hegseth starting a war with no mission, no strategy, and no plan. In the bottom linked post below, you specifically praise AOC for her defense of the left side of the Democratic party: > [@I Pit Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1457): > > Let’s take a look at pre-Oct 7th @Babale: In this thread from 2020, his politics are pretty much indistinguishable from mine. He talks about and criticizes American white supremacism, CIA involvement in foreign coups, wealth inequality, the legacy of colonialism, and much more. He’s pretty much an AOC progressive, borderline DSA Democrat. He started the following thread explicitly to defend the “far left” against criticism by supposedly moderate Democrats: He even specifically praises AOC… Have you changed your view on that, or is it still the same? ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1474 "2026-10-26T16:38:03Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > You haven’t presented any evidence, fuckwad. QED. > [@Babale](#): > > Do you have an alternative explanation for how one is supposed to read “Billionaires love Israel” when that’s pretty obviously not true _and_ when it pretty obviously ties into classic antisemic tropes? Yes, because I’m not a lying, morally bankrupt apologist for mass murderers. It is entirely true that many US right-wing billionaires support Israel. The antisemitic trope you deliberately and disingenuously conflated it with is not true, but you conflated them anyway so you could pretend you’d debunked the former while pulling out your favorite “Everyone who disagrees with me about Israel is antisemitic” strawman again. So thank you once again for demonstrating that everything I just said was true. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1475 "2026-10-26T16:41:44Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > ROFLMAO, that’s a good one. @Babale, you don’t have to pretend this is all fun for you. It probably sucks to be called out and flamed by so many people you used to think were your ideological compatriots. Maybe just think about why? Remember: if you meet one asshole in the morning, you met one asshole. But if you meet assholes all day? _You’re_ the asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1476 "2026-10-26T16:43:11Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > It is entirely true that many US right-wing billionaires support Israel. And there are plenty of other billionaires who don’t, and who engage in disgusting ZOG conspiracy theorizing. What’s your point? The initial claim was that I “love billionaires” because they (as a class) “support Israel”. That’s patently bullshit. And the claim was made out of the same type of populist brain rot you’re exhibiting right now. I want billionaires to pay their fair share in taxes, which obviously is much higher than what they pay now. But I don’t think that a wealth tax is a good way to accomplish that. But people whose brain has been destroyed by populist thinking can’t comprehend that; to them, I love billionaires and am defending them because I don’t agree with them about fiscal policy. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1477 "2026-10-26T16:45:30Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > The initial claim was that I “love billionaires” because they (as a class) “support Israel”. Who made this claim? I think you’ve reversed your position because you now think the far left is dangerous (and specifically dangerous to Israel), and thus “moderate” Democrats are your only remaining allies. Which requires defending billionaires, corporations, and our economic system at large. But, for the record, Musk is still very supportive of the Israeli government. As are the other most MAGA-friendly of the billionaire class, in general. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1478 "2026-10-26T16:45:42Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > you spaz out Yep, _there’s_ the kind of ableism that tells you it’s a _real_ liberal at work here. > [@Babale](#): > > And there are plenty of other billionaires who don’t, and who engage in disgusting ZOG conspiracy theorizing Said like it’s not possible to both side with\[1\] Israel, the country _and_ be an antisemite. * * * 1. I feel this is a more accurate term than _support_ ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1479 "2026-10-26T16:52:35Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Yep, _there’s_ the kind of ableism that tells you it’s a _real_ liberal at work here I love when campists like you co-opt the language of _actual_ Progressivism and pretend to give a fraction of a fuck about it. It really demonstrates the extreme level of hypocrisy you shit stains engage in and that you have absolutely no principals beyond “America/West Bad”. > [@I pit over-the-top Anti-Trump hysteria](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/1635): > > No, no, I understand, you do have a reputation for being a little … tardy. How’d you put it? > [@I pit over-the-top Anti-Trump hysteria](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-over-the-top-anti-trump-hysteria/1021735/1635): > > …fuck off with the pity party. Your issues don’t stop your finger wagging, or all your other posting, so you’re clearly functioning juuust fine. No one with a room temperature IQ or above is buying your bullshit, Dribble! ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 26, 2026, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1480 "2026-10-26T16:56:29Z")
Note for readers - @Babale claimed at one time that he was ignoring @MrDibble. He still claims (falsely, as evidenced by the content of his reply to @Stratocaster [above](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1461) which responded to my post) to ignore me. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738.md?page=73) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738.md?page=75)