# I Pit Babale **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 7, 2025, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738 "2025-04-07T14:59:40Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 77
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2026, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1521 "2026-10-28T21:11:30Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > But from what I can see online, no other Israelis who identify with The Democrats have any problem saying that bringing Arab parties into the ruling coalition is the only good option available And you think I disagree with it? I don’t think it will happen because of what I mentioned in the other thread; and I sympathize with Eisenkot’s position about his red lines; but if it was possible to build a coalition with the Arab parties without losing much of the current coalition, I’d agree that it’s the best option. And right now I think that a minority government backed by the Arab parties is the best option if they can convince Liberman to go along with it. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Babale is an enigma. Maybe you wouldn’t find me so enigmatic if you didn’t invent strawmen and assume that they were my positions? Just a thought. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2026, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1522 "2026-10-28T21:13:07Z")
Ah. Ok. Strange that the Jewish people I know - and, no, it is not a representative sample - have all done their time in the IDF. Something about wanting to retain Israeli citizenship, I believe. Off-hand, I know a tank commander, a sniper (technically, a “sharp shooter” or something like that, he was the guy with the fancy gun in his unit, but not the guy in a ghillie suit), an office clerk and a chef. And a couple of grunts. But I guess it is nice and safe waging war from the comfort of your USA based couch. Mazel tov. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2026, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1523 "2026-10-28T21:15:47Z")
I suspect it’s a big part of why @Babale is so comfortable with the various wars he supports – sending other people to fight and kill and die is all abstract to him, since he’s never had to experience anything remotely like it. And, of course, there’s no risk to himself and his comfortable life. And he’s in his 30s, so it’s not too late… but somehow I suspect Babs will never actually join up. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2026, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1524 "2026-10-28T21:17:01Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > Strange that the Jewish people I know - and, no, it is not a representative sample - have all done their time in the IDF. Something about wanting to retain Israeli citizenship, I believe. Yet another belief based in ignorance, it would appear. You can’t lose your Israeli citizenship by not serving in the army. > [@scudsucker](#): > > But I guess it is nice and safe waging war from the comfort of your USA based couch. Mazel tov. Gotcha, so that wasn’t a serious question, but yet another gotcha attempt? So you still won’t give a serious answer to my question? Figures. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2026, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1525 "2026-10-28T21:20:19Z")
Specifically, what I find enigmatic is your “sympathizing” with Eisenkot’s red lines. I get the impression that most self-identified left/liberal Zionists find those red lines to be an excuse to pander to racists. I mean, if he feels the need to do some performative racism to soothe his base before bringing Ra’am into the government, whatever. But you actually seem to think his position is reasonable on its face and not just defensible as a tactic. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2026, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1526 "2026-10-28T21:22:35Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Specifically, what I find enigmatic is your “sympathizing” with Eisenkot’s red lines. I get the impression that most self-identified left/liberal Zionists find those red lines to be an excuse to pander to racists. …that hasn’t been my experience at all. I don’t know _any_ Israelis who find it unreasonable to have those red lines. I did see one article from an Israeli writer who said it was hypocritical, and the reasoning he gave was that these criteria would also exclude the Orthodox parties. Which is true, and also, exactly the point? It’s supposed to exclude them. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > But you actually seem to think his position is reasonable on its face and not just defensible as a tactic. Which of the requirements do you find unreasonable? I absolutely think all four of them make perfect sense. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2026, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1527 "2026-10-28T21:30:29Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > Gotcha, so that wasn’t a serious question, but yet another gotcha attempt? Pointing out that you’re a coward is a gotcha? Maybe you’re just a gutless coward. Not a gotcha, just the best explanation for your eagerness to send others to fight and die while you remain living in comfort. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2026, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1528 "2026-10-28T21:31:16Z")
Sure, I think they’re all reasonable, but it seems to me that most of the Arab parties have, at least arguably, already fulfilled them. But they’re so vaguely worded as to allow almost unlimited room for goalpost moving, in whichever direction Eisenkot wants to move them. Here’s Yair Golan: > “We have no future here if we don’t stop being afraid. And if we don’t put an end to racism. We can no longer accept Netanyahu’s racist distinction between Jewish and Arab votes,” Golan wrote on X. > > “Anyone who tries to erase the votes of Arab citizens is surrendering to Netanyahu and giving up on Israel,” he added, pointing out that Netanyahu relied on ultra-Orthodox Jewish parties that were non-Zionist and opposed conscription for their constituents. He doesn’t appear to think the Arab parties need to radically change anything in order to be kosher as coalition partners. And if the issue is just that they refuse to identify as “Zionist”, it’s entirely appropriate to point out that it’s racist to make that demand of Arabs, but not of ultra-Orthodox Jews. I get that you would ideally like to have an entirely Zionist coalition, but there’s no way to do that at this point while also dumping Bibi. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2026, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1529 "2026-10-28T21:37:57Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Sure, I think they’re all reasonable, but it seems to me that most of the Arab parties have already fulfilled them. We already went over whether they denounced Hamas, and whether Joint List accepts the character of Israel as a Jewish and Democratic state. We don’t need to rehash it. Joint List hasn’t said anything about the service requirement, but Ra’am has signaled that they’d support a civil service requirement for Arab citizens, which means that Ra’am meets three of the four criteria. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > And if the issue is just that they refuse to identify as “Zionist”, it’s entirely appropriate to point out that it’s racist to make that demand of Arabs, but not of ultra-Orthodox Jews. When I say “these criteria exclude the Orthodox parties as well, which is good, because they are supposed to be excluded”, what part of that reads to you as “making that demand of Arabs but not of ultra-Orthodox Jews”? I am making the same exact demand of both, and both have failed it. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > Here’s Yair Golan: > > > “We have no future here if we don’t stop being afraid. And if we don’t put an end to racism. We can no longer accept Netanyahu’s racist distinction between Jewish and Arab votes,” Golan wrote on X. > > > > “Anyone who tries to erase the votes of Arab citizens is surrendering to Netanyahu and giving up on Israel,” he added, pointing out that Netanyahu relied on ultra-Orthodox Jewish parties that were non-Zionist and opposed conscription for their constituents. Do you know what he’s responding to? I agree with all of Golan’s comments about Netanyahu’s statements here. > [@Thing.Fish](#): > > I get that you would ideally like to have an entirely Zionist coalition, but there’s no way to do that at this point while also dumping Bibi. Yep, I agree, which is why I support either a coalition or a minority government with the Arab parties. And just to clarify a point of confusion that I’m sensing: when I say I’m sympathetic to the red lines, that doesn’t mean that I support them being red lines; it means that I understand where the desire for that is coming from and agree with it. I’d rather ally with the Arab parties through coalition or a minority government agreement than have Bibi back in power. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2026, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1530 "2026-10-28T21:39:56Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > When I say “these criteria exclude the Orthodox parties as well, which is good, because they are supposed to be excluded”, what part of that reads to you as “making that demand of Arabs but not of ultra-Orthodox Jews”? I am making the same exact demand of both, and both have failed it. I know YOU aren’t making this argument, but it undermines the argument others are making that allowing non-Zionist parties into the government would be some unprecedented step. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2026, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1531 "2026-10-28T21:40:40Z")
> [@Thing.Fish](#): > > I know YOU aren’t making this argument, but it undermines the argument others are making that allowing non-Zionist parties into the government would be some unprecedented step It’s even less unprecedented than that because Ra’am has been in government already. ---
**Author:** ![Thing.Fish](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thing.fish/32/9168_2.png) [@Thing.Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thing.Fish)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2026, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1532 "2026-10-28T21:42:03Z")
OK, so we agree that’s a dumb argument. Progress! ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2026, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1533 "2026-10-28T21:42:57Z")
You also agreed that all of Eisenkot’s criteria make sense, so we’re agreeing all over the place here. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [October 28, 2026, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1534 "2026-10-28T21:54:20Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I’ve stated multiple times that I moved to the US as a kid and have lived here since. But if you wanted, you could’ve moved to Israel to do the service? I believe the upper age limit is 28. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2026, 5:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1535 "2026-10-29T17:51:10Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > And finally: arsehole, not asshole. In American English, “arse” is spelled “ass” and used slightly differently. This can lead to amusing misunderstandings when people mistake the animal for the body part. A non-native coworker once said something to a group of us about “the time Jesus ride into Jerusalem on the back of an asshole”. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2026, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1536 "2026-10-29T17:58:32Z")
> [@puzzlegal](#): > > In American English, “arse” is spelled “ass” and used slightly differently. I am aware; and I chose the English spelling (and connotations) for that reason. ---
**Author:** ![Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/q.q.switcheroo/32/5713_2.png) [@Q.Q.Switcheroo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.Q.Switcheroo)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2026, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1537 "2026-10-29T18:58:15Z")
Sir Toby, reading Andrew’s letter in _Twelfth Night_: > …and may God have mercy upon one of **our souls**. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1538 "2026-10-31T08:44:52Z")
I’m enjoying watching @HMS_Irruncible eviscerate Babs over his defense of Elon’s wealth and power in the billionaire thread. Reading Babs today and reading Babs before Oct 7th is like reading Fetterman vs AOC. It really did break his brain. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2026, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1539 "2026-10-31T18:09:34Z")
Babs is smoothly setting up his nigh-inevitable turn to MAGA: > [@Senate races 2026](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-races-2026/1013534/1092): > > > [@Senate races 2026](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-races-2026/1013534/1089): > > > > But the message of the hyperbole is that those of us who do don’t matter. > > > > Which may be true. And is part of the worry - that going forward in the party we don’t. > > The Platner thing demonstrates this perfectly, I think. Those of us concerned about his anti-semitic warning signs were ignored at best, and called MAGA supporting traitors at worst. It’s not until it came out that he was a trash human being for entirely different reasons that people stopped running cover for him. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2026, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738/1540 "2026-11-01T09:52:40Z")
> [@Senate races 2026](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/senate-races-2026/1013534/1092): > > Those of us concerned about his anti-semitic warning signs were ignored at best, and called MAGA supporting traitors at worst. It’s not until it came out that he was a trash human being for entirely different reasons that people stopped running cover for him. Why yes, because “his anti-semitic warning signs” were spun from whole cloth. And because “anti-semitic warning signs” are not, necessarily, indicative of being a “trash human being for entirely different reasons”. See: Charles Lindbergh1. The later being logically fallacious. 1I’m not aware of any claims that Lindbergh was a “trash human being” but he was a fucking Nazi. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738.md?page=76) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-babale/1016738.md?page=78)