# I pit brazil84 for: his rules of debate; "quote me"; bailing out. (Nothing new under the sun)
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [July 29, 2011, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687 "2011-07-29T01:30:22Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 4
### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/61 "2011-07-30T01:25:41Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#):
>
> Liar. You don’t ever consider anything that might have to do with you being unclear or ambiguous. Never once have I seen you ever say “I was unclear, let me clarify.” All you ever do is post bullshit and then blame other people for your own shortcomings and inabilities.
And are my posts in the Breivik thread a good example of this behavior?
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### Author:  [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/62 "2011-07-30T01:40:28Z")
I, for one, thought it was perfectly clear that you were being an insensitive douche-bag in that thread.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 3:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/63 "2011-07-30T03:23:29Z")
> [@brazil84](#):
>
> And are my posts in the Breivik thread a good example of this behavior?
Quote me where I talked about your posts in that thread, or retract the insinuation and apologize, or I’ll fucking ban you from my response list, you insufferable fucktard.
It’s not my fault you can’t read for comprehension. Do you always just make up shit people said about you, or is this your first stab at it, asshole?
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### Author:  [@SherwoodAnderson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SherwoodAnderson)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/64 "2011-07-30T04:10:50Z")
I suspect **brazil84** ’s “banning” means he filtered out my responses, so I’m not sure if there’s a point…
But I’ll just point out that we obviously never got to where he could demonstrate this ability to be reasonable and fair that he now claims to possess. I wouldn’t agree to his ground rules and go mining through the thread for quotes - not without him clarifying why he assumed bad faith - and then he opted to sod off and “ban” me. So him pointing to that as some sort of counter-example to what you said, **Snowboarder Bo** , is really quite disingenuous.
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### Author:  [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/65 "2011-07-30T06:17:57Z")
> [@SherwoodAnderson](#):
>
> So him pointing to that as some sort of counter-example to what you said, **Snowboarder Bo** , is really quite disingenuous.
Well he can just read what I wrote again, and then he can quote me where I said anything at all about the Breivik thread. And when he can’t quote me, because I never said anything about that thread, he can admit he was wrong and apologize or I will ban him.
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### Author:  [@SherwoodAnderson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SherwoodAnderson)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/66 "2011-07-30T06:22:54Z")
But will you have a place on the web where he’ll be able to read about his transgressions and then reflect on his foolishness?
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### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/67 "2011-07-30T11:01:12Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#):
>
> Quote me where I talked about your posts in that thread,
Here’s what you said:
> [@](#):
>
> You don’t ever consider anything that might have to do with you being unclear or ambiguous. Never once have I seen you ever say “I was unclear, let me clarify.” **All you ever do is post bullshit** and then blame other people for your own shortcomings and inabilities.
(emphasis added).
“All you ever do” would seem to apply to my posts in that thread. Of course, the phrase “is post bullshit” is a bit ambiguous, which is why I was careful to simply ask you a question:
> [@](#):
>
> And are my posts in the Breivik thread a good example of this behavior?
It’s an extremely simple yes or no question.
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### Author:  [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 12:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/68 "2011-07-30T12:02:13Z")
Caring enough about a debate on an Internet forum, so much so that you spend time to think up your own rules of debate, publish them, and maintain a “ban list”, is surely a sign of some sort of serious personality defect or a life that’s being squandered.
Step away from the computer, go outside and take a break. Jesus :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/69 "2011-07-30T12:23:17Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#):
>
> Caring enough about a debate on an Internet forum, so much so that you spend time to think up your own rules of debate, publish them, and maintain a “ban list”, is surely a sign of some sort of serious personality defect or a life that’s being squandered.
I wouldn’t go that far, but I do agree it’s pretty dorky. Note that the moderators on this and other forums also create rules of debate; publish them; and maintain “ban lists.”
Anyway, I enjoy it and it’s not fattening.
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### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 12:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/70 "2011-07-30T12:46:47Z")
> [@brazil84](#):
>
> Here’s what you said:
>
> (emphasis added).
>
> “All you ever do” would seem to apply to my posts in that thread. Of course, the phrase “is post bullshit” is a bit ambiguous, which is why I was careful to simply ask you a question:
>
> It’s an extremely simple yes or no question.
Wow. Words do not mean what you think they mean. When someone says that you post bullshit, it means they don’t like your posts. It’s a fucking expletive, it does not have a literal meaning.
But I suspect you know that. That’s why I said what I said before. Your rules are just a dodge you created so you can avoid responding to people. It’s really easy to take anything anyone says and shoehorn it into breaking one of your rules, thus allowing you to cop out.
I’m sure you’ll come up with a reason I broke one of your rules, and I’m specifically avoiding even figures of speech that anyone who is not autistic should understand.
And this isn’t fucking strawmanning. It’s actually using my fucking brain and noticing that normal people do not have to make up rules in order to be able to converse with people. You made up the rules, so there must be a reason. And if it were to ensure people would debate honestly, it wouldn’t involve banning the very people you are supposed to be debating. And it definitely wouldn’t involve coming back to a board that has repeatedly told you your rules are stupid and demonstrate some sort of personality disorder.
Plus people who want logical debate don’t constantly post inflammatory remarks like a troll.
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### Author:  [@SherwoodAnderson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SherwoodAnderson)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/71 "2011-07-30T13:09:22Z")
That’s about it I’d say. He considers debating a game and the rules are convenient cheat codes.
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### Author:  [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/72 "2011-07-30T13:15:41Z")
Wow. I just had a look at all the other climate denier websites that brazil posts under. They all have rules like his, and in each one of them, they are only applied to people who disagree with them. Here’s just [one example](http://joannenova.com.au/2009/09/breaking-news-cherry-picking-of-historic-proportions/). The AGW proponent is modded for an ad hominem attack and unfair characterizations, while the deniers repeatedly do it.
So I’ve changed my mind. Everyone, come in and say something the guy doesn’t like. He bans us, and then he has no one else he can respond to. Or he breaks his rules, proving he doesn’t really hold anyone to them. It’s win-win.
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### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/73 "2011-07-30T13:43:57Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> Wow. Words do not mean what you think they mean. When someone says that you post bullshit, it means they don’t like your posts. It’s a fucking expletive, it does not have a literal meaning.
From the context, he seemed to be saying that my regular practice was to make ambiguous posts and then blame people for misunderstanding them. So it was reasonable for me to ask if my conduct in the Breivik thread was a good example of this (alleged) practice.
> [@](#):
>
> Plus people who want logical debate don’t constantly post inflammatory remarks like a troll.
One man’s inflammatory remarks are another man’s logical debate.
> [@](#):
>
> So I’ve changed my mind. Everyone, come in and say something the guy doesn’t like. He bans us
Why not just put me on your ignore list?
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/74 "2011-07-30T15:35:34Z")
Good idea.
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### Author:  [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/75 "2011-07-30T15:48:49Z")
> [@brazil84](#):
>
> One man’s inflammatory remarks are another man’s logical debate.
Um, no. One man’s inflammatory remarks are another man’s inflammatory remarks. One man’s logical argument is another man’s logical argument. There may be some disagreement about which is which, but I’ve rarely seen such ambiguous situations in your posts.
I would accuse you of sophistry, but none of your arguments rise even to the level of sophistry.
> [@brazil84](#):
>
> Why not just put me on your ignore list?
You really just don’t get it, do you? The idea behind rational debate is to engage with people who do not share in your views.
Coming up with your own set of rules and arbitrarily (yes, arbitrarily) enforcing them by ignoring or banning is a violation of this principle. You go from rational debate to irrational screeds.
You deliberately put yourself into an echo chamber where you only see opinions that agree with your own and make a concerted effort to avoid opinions contrary to your own. If you want a soapbox, stick to your blog. If you want to engage in earnest debate, you’re going to have to accept that you are NOT a purely logical existence incapable of error or biased reasoning.
As it’s clear you don’t see how these types of actions are the antithesis of reasoned debate, I pity you. At that point, putting you on an ignore list is a good idea. You can’t reason rationally with the fundamentally and inescapably irrational.
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### Author:  [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/76 "2011-07-30T16:26:07Z")
> [@BigT](#):
>
> Wow. I just had a look at all the other climate denier websites that brazil posts under. They all have rules like his, and in each one of them, they are only applied to people who disagree with them. Here’s just [one example](http://joannenova.com.au/2009/09/breaking-news-cherry-picking-of-historic-proportions/). The AGW proponent is modded for an ad hominem attack and unfair characterizations, while the deniers repeatedly do it.
I was somewhat sympathetic to “Robin Grant”, the one proponent (although I’m not taking sides on the AGW issue itself), but that faded away when he started getting into a cycle of:
Somebody: Robin, you make me laugh.
Robin: No, _you_ make _me_ laugh.
Somebody: No, you make me laugh.
Robin: No, **you** make… etc.
Anyway, and again without taking any particular side on the AGW issue, based solely on brazil84’s blog and his posts in this thread, my honest assessment is “pretentious git.”
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### Author:  [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/77 "2011-07-30T16:28:13Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#):
>
> Um, no. One man’s inflammatory remarks are another man’s inflammatory remarks.
I disagree. Many people are so invested in a particular world view that they get inflamed by the most civil, logical presentation of evidence which undermines that world view.
> [@](#):
>
> You really just don’t get it, do you? The idea behind rational debate is to engage with people who do not share in your views.
Sure, and there are plenty of people who do not share in my views but who do not insist on misrepresenting my position.
I don’t have any rule against disagreeing with what I actually say. The problem is that some people prefer not to argue against my actual position, but instead exaggerate my position, lie about my position, or simply imagine that I said something different from what I actually said. I prefer not to engage with people who insist on doing this. To me, it’s not debate which I am interested in.
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### Author:  [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/78 "2011-07-30T16:34:22Z")
> [@brazil84](#):
>
> I disagree. Many people are so invested in a particular world view that they get inflamed by the most civil, logical presentation of evidence which undermines that world view.
And some people are so unable to handle evidence that contradicts their world-view that they create a bullshit artifice about banning people so they don’t have to face difficult factual information.
Some people even write blogs about it. Pathetic, lonely blogs where they strut like a peacock in the digital equivalent of their mom’s basement.
> [@](#):
>
> Sure, and there are plenty of people who do not share in my views but who do not insist on misrepresenting my position.
Your positions are incoherent. It’s perfectly natural for people to misunderstand them, they’re random and based on nothing more than your particular fractured view of reality.
> [@](#):
>
> I don’t have any rule against disagreeing with what I actually say. The problem is that some people prefer not to argue against my actual position, but instead exaggerate my position, lie about my position, or simply imagine that I said something different from what I actually said. I prefer not to engage with people who insist on doing this. To me, it’s not debate which I am interested in.
You wouldn’t know a debate if it were grinding its balls on your eyelids.
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### Author:  [@SherwoodAnderson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SherwoodAnderson)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/79 "2011-07-30T16:43:00Z")
Acknowledging that argumentum ad populum can be a fallacy, I still cant help noticing we got about 25 people so far who seem to think that you’re kind of an asshole, **brazil84** , and your fanclub is pretty much empty. Are pit threads usually this lopsided?
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2011, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-brazil84-for-his-rules-of-debate-quote-me-bailing-out-nothing-new-under-the-sun/590687/80 "2011-07-30T17:05:31Z")
Usually there is _somebody_ who will take the side of the pittee, even as Devil’s Advocate. Doesn’t seem to be the case here. But just so it isn’t completely one-sided…
**SherwoodAnderson** , I am sure that sometime in your life you have done something I disapprove of. For shame!
There. We now return you to the entirely apropos dismantling of the original pittee.
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