# I pit Bricker for admitting he plans to make posts that are "clearly and utterly unreasonable" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 1, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080 "2014-12-01T22:24:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/161 "2014-12-03T05:46:08Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes, I should adopt the liberal tactic and lie about it, claiming my arguments are pristine? > > (See what I did there? That’s not the liberal tactic. That’s the Lobohan tactic, the elucidator tactic, the BobLibDem tactic. But they receive scant criticism for their continued use of the tactic; why should I be denied it?) Ok, first of all bundling the humorist elucidator in that list signals horsepucky. I’m not saying that humorists can’t be criticized: they can. But you apply a different sort of analysis to P.J O’Rourke than you do to Bill O’Reilly. Secondly, I’d like to see some examples of clearly unreasonable and nonsatirical posts. I think it’s pretty obvious that’s a terrible thing to aspire to, even in the pit. What you want is _subtlety_ and utterly unreasonable posts in this forum. Or (more likely) _preposterously_ and utterly unreasonable. Those are far better approaches, and I trust you can find examples. We’re here to fight ignorance and one way of doing that is to cultivate and encourage critical thinking in the reader. The crude techniques evident in Bricker’s post above only succeed in shocking delicate sensibilities and dismaying idealists. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/162 "2014-12-03T15:27:59Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Ok, first of all bundling the humorist elucidator in that list signals horsepucky. I’m not saying that humorists can’t be criticized: they can. But you apply a different sort of analysis to P.J O’Rourke than you do to Bill O’Reilly. I hear you. But I’m not sure I agree. elucidator’s schtick is to debate in earnest until he’s trapped, and then retreat to a, “Gee, Hoss, I’m just a burned-out sixties conservative wing of the extreme left guy,” parry of why-are-you-taking-me-seriously. That’s humorist-as-defense-against-argument, not humorist qua humorist. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/163 "2014-12-03T15:33:17Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Yes, you can. But that isn’t the standard you set for **iiandyii** , is it? You want him to lambast ALL liberals who do things you don’t like. Nope. I just want him to lambast qualifying posts on this board that appear in threads he’s participating in. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/164 "2014-12-03T15:46:15Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Heh. You’re a pompous twit, a moronic gasbag with delusions of sincerity, but you’re good for a laugh, so there’s that, dude! The “good for a laugh” posturing tends to be undercut by the evident need to constantly reiterate it, and especially when the pose is also occasionally dropped in frustration. > [@VarlosZ](#): > > I, too, wonder to what extent his real world interactions approximate his online presence. Normally I assume that even the biggest jerks around here are actually quite charming, pleasant, and accepting in real life (superficially at the very least). **Der** seems like he might be an exception. He’s just so bloody earnest. How could someone with his worldview justify shooting the shit with some friend-of-a-friend who’s a cop or a Republican? But again, he seems to do it here. At least as far as I’ve noticed, he doesn’t seem to have problems interacting with people, other than to the extent that this is affected by the expression of his views. And here too, I would suggest that the way a person relates to others who are the epitome of evil will vary based on whether those evil people are a few people who can be avoided or they are pretty much all over the place. So it would be a mistake to project how a person in the latter situation would deal with it based on how a person in the former situation would. > [@Bricker](#): > > elucidator’s schtick is to debate in earnest until he’s trapped, and then retreat to a, “Gee, Hoss, I’m just a burned-out sixties conservative wing of the extreme left guy,” parry of why-are-you-taking-me-seriously. > > That’s humorist-as-defense-against-argument, not humorist qua humorist. I agree with the second paragraph, but not the first. I see the “Gee, Hoss …” stuff right out of the gate. I don’t think he’s a rigorous thinker to begin with - just a guy with pronounced left-wing tendencies, who picks up random ideas on left-wing blogs and media and can express them colorfully here. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/165 "2014-12-03T15:54:20Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Nope. I just want him to lambast qualifying posts on this board that appear in threads he’s participating in. Since I’ve been inspired to try and do a better job on this, including criticizing such sweeping statements about conservatives in this thread, might you feel a little inspiration to not make such sweeping statements (or any other “clearly and utterly unreasonable” statements) about liberals? ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/166 "2014-12-03T15:55:57Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Just out of curiosity, what’s an inoffensive thing to compare a bunch of running people to? Headless chickens. ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/167 "2014-12-03T17:13:29Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Just out of curiosity, what’s an inoffensive thing to compare a bunch of running people to? A pack of wolves ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/168 "2014-12-03T18:12:53Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The “good for a laugh” posturing tends to be undercut by the evident need to constantly reiterate it, and especially when the pose is also occasionally dropped in frustration. Think of it more like dad humor: you’re a once-funny joke that I keep re-telling. Fortunately you keep making hilariously inept analyses of my motives, so you keep writing fresh material. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/169 "2014-12-03T18:14:31Z")
Well then, enjoy. (Or pretend to.) ---
**Author:** ![FXMastermind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fxmastermind/32/7289_2.png) [@FXMastermind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FXMastermind)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/170 "2014-12-03T18:59:43Z")
I think everybody should agree that they enjoy posting. Because if you aren’t enjoying it, and you keep doing it, there is something seriously wrong with you. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/171 "2014-12-03T19:06:51Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > I hear you. But I’m not sure I agree… This right here, this is classic **Bricker**. You start out by declaring your open-mindedness, offering your _boney fidos_. Then, in the very next sentence, you declare the opposite. Be like if I answered someone who remarked how liberal and open you were, and I respond: “Not _quite_ correct, when you consider that he is a constipated conservative with authoritarian instincts and a crypto-facist mindset, **Steophan** with a law degree…” You’ve a mind like a steel trap, Counselor, but a steel trap is designed for injury. Perhaps when it is rusted shut it is improved, in which case you are to be congratulated. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/172 "2014-12-03T19:13:30Z")
More litter. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/173 "2014-12-03T19:34:40Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Since I’ve been inspired to try and do a better job on this, including criticizing such sweeping statements about conservatives in this thread, might you feel a little inspiration to not make such sweeping statements (or any other “clearly and utterly unreasonable” statements) about liberals? Yes. For the gaining of one ally to the cause of truly calling out idiocy from all sides – yes. But since that tactic led to your conversion, how shall I convince the next guy? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/174 "2014-12-03T19:38:24Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. > > For the gaining of one ally to the cause of truly calling out idiocy from all sides – yes. > > But since that tactic led to your conversion, how shall I convince the next guy? Maybe by not being so whiny about tactics that you yourself engage in? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/175 "2014-12-03T19:47:12Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > Yes. > > For the gaining of one ally to the cause of truly calling out idiocy from all sides – yes. > > But since that tactic led to your conversion, how shall I convince the next guy? Maybe by going out on a limb and asking nicely while offering an olive branch? It worked for me! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/176 "2014-12-03T19:53:55Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > (Or pretend to.) See? See? That’s just what I’m talking about! New material! ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/177 "2014-12-03T20:16:46Z")
Just noticed: Bricker, on why he doesn’t disown the nuttiness of fellow conservative Starving Artist: > [@Starving Artist - we remember you](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/starving-artist-we-remember-you/706204/26): > > I don’t own him. How could disowning him work? Bricker’s entire complaint is based on a lie - if he doesn’t “own” Starving Artist and thus cannot “disown” him, he has no basis to demand that the people he calls “liberals” disown other “liberals.” I take this an an admission of his knowing deceit on the matter and figure the issue (at least as far as Bricker is concerned - I suppose we could debate how/if one’s political peers should be policed as a general concept) is closed on that basis. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/178 "2014-12-03T20:21:51Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > See? See? That’s just what I’m talking about! New material! Are you a teacher? (ISTR that.) > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Bricker’s entire complaint is based on a lie - if he doesn’t “own” Starving Artist and thus cannot “disown” him, he has no basis to demand that the people he calls “liberals” disown other “liberals.” I take this an an admission of his knowing deceit on the matter and figure the issue (at least as far as Bricker is concerned - I suppose we could debate how/if one’s political peers should be policed as a general concept) is closed on that basis. ISTM there’s a difference in this regard between disowning a poster and disowning the tactics being used by posters on your side in a specific debate (in which you’re participating). ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/179 "2014-12-03T20:25:27Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Just noticed: Bricker, on why he doesn’t disown the nuttiness of fellow conservative Starving Artist: > > Bricker’s entire complaint is based on a lie - if he doesn’t “own” Starving Artist and thus cannot “disown” him, he has no basis to demand that the people he calls “liberals” disown other “liberals.” I take this an an admission of his knowing deceit on the matter and figure the issue (at least as far as Bricker is concerned - I suppose we could debate how/if one’s political peers should be policed as a general concept) is closed on that basis. Bricker certainly does outright lie on occasion. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080/180 "2014-12-03T20:43:08Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Are you a teacher? (ISTR that.) Why yes, good sir, I am. Tell me more! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-admitting-he-plans-to-make-posts-that-are-clearly-and-utterly-unreasonable/706080.md?page=10)