# I pit Bricker for subtle reasons **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 21, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403 "2011-01-21T01:39:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2011, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/61 "2011-01-21T23:55:29Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > The point is not about whether liberals are hypocrites. Rather, it’s a response to the perceived implication of the original complaint, that conservatives are evil because … Except that, at least in the thread I linked to, I don’t see any such implications at all. Sure, people often post threads like “Hey, George Bush did X… god damn those Republicans are all (nasty word)”. But that doesn’t mean that every political rant ever is like that. The health care repeal bill has an idiotic title. It was given that title by Republicans. That action of theirs was idiotic. It’s possible for complaints to be direct and specific, and in this case, they were. ---
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/62 "2011-01-22T01:28:28Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > (a) it strongly implies that Democrats do and have proposed such bills without having to actually outright state such (which would of course open him up to being called on it) > (b) it puts the OPer on the defensive… now for your thread to continue you have to prove that you’re not a hypocrite. Which is very hard to do > (c) it tends to totally derail the thread entirely, until the original complaint is lost and forgotten If this is how you prefer message board discussions to wind up, there’s a button I can use for that. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/63 "2011-01-22T01:34:16Z")
> [@Ludovic](#): > > If this is how you prefer message board discussions to wind up, there’s a button I can use for that. Uhh, what? I’m totally lost. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/64 "2011-01-22T01:50:24Z")
You _sure_ you want to know? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/65 "2011-01-22T01:52:39Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Uhh, what? I’m totally lost. For what it’s worth, I couldn’t follow that either. In the meantime, would you mind commenting on my response in Post 23? ---
**Author:** ![billfish678](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7bcc69/32.png) [@billfish678](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/billfish678)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/66 "2011-01-22T01:59:53Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Uhh, what? I’m totally lost. I think he thinks what your complaining about is something he thinks you think is a good thing? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/67 "2011-01-22T02:06:53Z")
> [@John\_DiFool](#): > > [It’s threads like this one](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=593861) which keep me from taking him seriously. You need reasons to not take the people here seriously? > [@Agent\_Foxtrot](#): > > Geez, this is the most anti-pit pitting I’ve ever seen. Someone throw a stone or a punch or something! Okay, I don’t like nor am I impressed by Bricker. I’m happy to call him on his bullshit when he spews some, which is not an altogether infrequent occurence, and his blame-the-victim crap in the police raid thread was merely the latest example of a post-hoc rationalization in which procedural correctness matters more than sound reasoning when procedural correctness happens to lead to an outcome he agrees with. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/68 "2011-01-22T03:14:34Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > For what it’s worth, I couldn’t follow that either. > > In the meantime, would you mind commenting on my response in Post 23? I think my response would basically be the same as my response to **Frank** in post #59. If you don’t think that addresses what you were saying, please be more explicit as to what you’re getting at. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 6:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/69 "2011-01-22T06:00:46Z")
This may sound odd, but frankly I feel a bit sorry for the fella. He’s clearly overly-invested in the place - it’s hugely important to him to score points, “win” and be the dope law guru (even though he’s wrong more often than right) and he spends an awful lot of time trying to do so, sometimes posting 70 times a day. He sort of reminds me of Liberal before he took a break - a bit too obsessed with this place in general and his place in it specifically. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/70 "2011-01-22T06:59:13Z")
Oh, piffle. Seventy posts a day won’t even get you into the OCD Club. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/71 "2011-01-22T07:14:54Z")
> [@leander](#): > > This may sound odd, but frankly I feel a bit sorry for the fella. He’s clearly overly-invested in the place - it’s hugely important to him to score points, “win” and be the dope law guru (even though he’s wrong more often than right) and he spends an awful lot of time trying to do so, sometimes posting 70 times a day. He sort of reminds me of Liberal before he took a break - a bit too obsessed with this place in general and his place in it specifically. Bricker when talking about law subjects that do not involve politics is correct more often than not. A high enough percentage that I’d rely on something he whispered in my ear at a hearing when I didn’t have time to check and didn’t disagree. If I disagree with him I usually check first. That said, he is almost always dancing when it comes to arguing something. It’s useful for a lawyer to be able to dance, but to be really persuasive in a courtroom the judges must trust you from experience and your lack of obvious dancing. But that is different than knowing what the basic law in a situation is. So when Bricker says the general law is x, that is reliable. But when he applies the general law to a specific situation, get your guard up, he’s arguing. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/72 "2011-01-22T07:42:02Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Uhh, what? I’m totally lost. Perhaps he means that anyone who likes it when serious threads are ignored deserve to be on his ignore list? It’s reaching, I know, but that’s the only “button” I can think of. ---
**Author:** ![leander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/bcef8e/32.png) [@leander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leander)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/73 "2011-01-22T09:43:48Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Oh, piffle. Seventy posts a day won’t even get you into the OCD Club. Fair enough. 😉 > [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Bricker when talking about law subjects that do not involve politics is correct more often than not. A high enough percentage that I’d rely on something he whispered in my ear at a hearing when I didn’t have time to check and didn’t disagree. If I disagree with him I usually check first. That said, he is almost always dancing when it comes to arguing something. It’s useful for a lawyer to be able to dance, but to be really persuasive in a courtroom the judges must trust you from experience and your lack of obvious dancing. But that is different than knowing what the basic law in a situation is. > > So when Bricker says the general law is x, that is reliable. But when he applies the general law to a specific situation, get your guard up, he’s arguing. The problem that I’ve seen is that he almost always tries to apply whatever the law is in Virginia to the rest of the world. I agree that he has a very good handle on his local laws, but it’s annoying that he seems to think he can draw (ABSOLUTE) conclusions based on that on the rest of the US, much less the rest of the world. ---
**Author:** ![Dinsdale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/97f17d/32.png) [@Dinsdale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dinsdale)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/74 "2011-01-22T14:40:41Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > But as also noted, he’s something of a disingenuous arguer on many topics. It’s like he plays word games just to keep at top form in stereotypical dickish lawyer behavior. This I agree with completely. > [@](#): > > He’d be a great law professor for first year law students. This I don’t. He deals in the type of trickery and misdirection that can (at times) be effective when pursuing a client’s interests, but which has little use in furthering honest discussion. I think law schools could wait at least until the second year to stress dickishness… ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/75 "2011-01-22T21:15:31Z")
> [@leander](#): > > Fair enough. 😉 > > The problem that I’ve seen is that he almost always tries to apply whatever the law is in Virginia to the rest of the world. I agree that he has a very good handle on his local laws, but it’s annoying that he seems to think he can draw (ABSOLUTE) conclusions based on that on the rest of the US, much less the rest of the world. I do this too. But I don’t think either of us are unaware that state laws are different around the country. It’s just that in discussing state law it is inconvenient to post all fifty state laws about a particular point when one example may illustrate for all or a majority of them. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/76 "2011-01-23T03:57:26Z")
> [@leander](#): > > The problem that I’ve seen is that he almost always tries to apply whatever the law is in Virginia to the rest of the world. I agree that he has a very good handle on his local laws, but it’s annoying that he seems to think he can draw (ABSOLUTE) conclusions based on that on the rest of the US, much less the rest of the world. And of course you can cite a couple of examples where I relied on Virginia law to prove a point that was ultimately not valid, and did so as an absolute conclusion (that is, without providing a caveat that I was just giving an example from my state, and specifically saying it may not apply.) 'Cause I think you’re full of shit on this claim. I don’t do that. But you can sure make me look like crap with those cites. So let’s have’em. ---
**Author:** ![monstro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba9def/32.png) [@monstro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monstro)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/77 "2011-01-23T05:21:55Z")
I’m hard to impress, I guess. IMHO, he’s no different than most posters, really, except for the wackjobs whose posts I don’t bother reading. When he’s righteous, he’s righteous. But when he’s bad, it’s usually really bad. However, I do find him much more tolerable than other right-wingers on the board, so he gets the overall grade of “OK”. Which means if he ever comes down to the River City, we can go out to lunch. But he has to pay. 🙂 I must say, I don’t understand why people keep playing this record. If full-fledged pittings haven’t had an effect on **Bricker’s** debating style (at least, perceptible effects), what makes you think a subtle pitting, especially one that actually sounds more like a love fest, is going to do anything? He posts how he posts and I don’t think he’s ever going to change, as is his perogative. The best thing is just to deal with **Bricker** like he’s no better or worse than anyone else. If his argument style is tiresome, then stop arguing with him. Or stop reading the thread. That’s what I do when I find a Doper to be too much. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/78 "2011-01-23T05:34:00Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > …But you can sure make me look like crap with those cites. So let’s have’em. So now he must read every word you’ve written over the past years, intently, and cross-reference according to subject, date, and degree of obfuscation? Prose that drops to the page as delicately as a bowling ball onto your toe? Can he opt for lethal injection instead? ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/79 "2011-01-23T06:09:02Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So now he must read every word you’ve written over the past years, intently, and cross-reference according to subject, date, and degree of obfuscation? It’s a fair enough request. If **leander** made the claim he should be able to back it up without too much trouble. Thing is, i was also a bit perplexed by what **leander** said because I haven’t noticed **Bricker** ever doing that either. What he has, on occasion, said is something like “I don’t know what the law is in X, but in Virginia it is ABC, and I expect it would be something similar in X”. Nothing wrong with that. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2011, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/80 "2011-01-23T07:29:47Z")
> [@monstro](#): > > I must say, I don’t understand why people keep playing this record. If full-fledged pittings haven’t had an effect on **Bricker’s** debating style (at least, perceptible effects), what makes you think a subtle pitting, especially one that actually sounds more like a love fest, is going to do anything? He posts how he posts and I don’t think he’s ever going to change, as is his perogative. The best thing is just to deal with **Bricker** like he’s no better or worse than anyone else. If his argument style is tiresome, then stop arguing with him. Or stop reading the thread. That’s what I do when I find a Doper to be too much. I dunno, catch more flies with honey than with vinegar? I mean, I certainly feel like a thread saying “hey, I mostly like and respect you, but it does irritate me when you do X” is more likely to actually change someone’s behavior in some way than “you’re a douchebag”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403.md?page=5)