# I pit Bricker for subtle reasons **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 21, 2011, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403 "2011-01-21T01:39:39Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/121 "2011-01-25T19:58:19Z")
Who said anything about punishment? (Besides you.) Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/122 "2011-01-25T20:11:11Z")
Who said anything about others saying anything about punishment? Seriously, it’s fine. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/123 "2011-01-25T21:14:44Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > > [@me](#): > > > > Asking “so, does this criticism apply to everyone or just Republicans?” may technically be question, but it sure comes off as an attack, at least to me. (And again, in what possible universe is someone going to respond “why yes, it DOES only apply to republicans”?) > > In this universe. I can easily imagine people responding with, “Yes, let’s face it, the Republicans are by far the worst offenders here…” Wait a second here, you’re conflating two things. One would be this: Liberal poster: Republicans gave that bill a stupid title. Grr! Bricker: so, does this criticism apply to everyone or just Republicans? LP: Why obviously it only applies to Republicans… it’s always OK for democrats to give whatever title they think is best to a bill, because they’re working for our country’s best interest. But since republicans are racist evil homophobic pawns of big industry, they should restrict their bill names to the purely descriptive and clearly honest. or something like that, in which the poster admits and in fact proudly claims a double standard. On the other hand, this: Liberal poster: Republicans gave that bill a stupid title. Grr! Bricker: so, does this criticism apply to everyone or just Republicans? LP: Well, let’s face it, the Republicans are by far the worst offenders here… Is something totally different. It doesn’t prove anything at all about the poster’s political philosophy or double standards or anything. The poster is making an observation that a certain group has, on average, done something more than another group. Now, obviously this is treacherous ground to be treading on, but in fact it’s entirely possible that Republicans HAVE been much worse offenders in bad-bill-naming. Or, for that matter, that Democrats have been worse that Republicans. Certainly there’s no principle of fundamental balance which states that the amount of bad-bill-naming done by both parties is automatically equal, or even automatically close to equal. Someone saying “I think that vastly more bad bill names have been proposed by Republicans than Democrats” can not be instantly dismissed as a partisan hypocrite unless you can prove that that claim in fact in error. (And note that while it’s a strong statement, it’s not an absolute like “No Democrat has ever proposed a bill with a bad name” which could be disproven with a single example.) Of course, human beings being the fallible creatures that we are, it’s likely that someone with generally Democratic leanings will notice badly named Republican bills more than badly named Democratic bills and vice versa… so we shouldn’t just take their claim at face value\*. But it would also be clearly foolish to automatically reject such a claim, or use it as proof of unobjectivity, just because the claim says something imbalanced between the two parties. \*As a point of fact, I _do_ think that Republicans have proposed far more high-profile bills with “bad names” that Democrats. But I’m hardly an expert on the topic, am aware of my own leanings, and thus wouldn’t seriously attempt to make and defend such a claim without doing some research first. And obviously “bad names” is pretty darn subjective anyhow. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/124 "2011-01-25T21:16:15Z")
> [@Fotheringay-Phipps](#): > > Even if this is true, it doesn’t change what I said. The dynamics of this board are what they are, and posts and threads don’t exist in a vacuum. Uhh, sorry to be so nonresponsive, but I’ve utterly and completely lost track of what it is that you’re fundamentally saying ☹ ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/125 "2011-01-25T21:22:36Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > More often than not, on the SDMB it _is_ meant to apply only to Republicans. > > Malfeasance (real or imagined) is often presented as if it were characteristic of conservatives or the GOP. Malfeasance (no matter if it is real or not) is generally met with a storm of dismissal, denial, attacking the messenger, and loud cries of “everyone stop discussing this - there is NO DEBATE here.” > > Regards, > Shodan First of all, I’m assuming that your second sentence was supposed to read “Malfeasance BY THE LEFT (no matter…”? In which case, well, there’s certainly truth to what you’re saying. The SDMB is a left-leaning board. The political climate of the country right now is hostile. People (of all stripes) like to circle the wagon and defend their own. And to a certain extent, that’s why I’m pitting Bricker for subtle reasons, rather than any number of partisan hacks for less subtle reasons. If there’s someone who just constantly defends their own side and attacks the other side, then eh, they’re just a jackhole on the internet, who cares. Bricker is better than that. And, hopefully, so are a fair number of SDMB leftists, who can’t really do anything about the overall composition and tenor of the board. Could I (if we assume for a moment that I’m a basically fair minded leftists) spend more time policing the fairness of the posting of the SDMB left, jumping in whenever possible to point out inflammatory language, illogical conclusions, etc.? Well, sure I could. But bluntly, why would I? I post on the SDMB for fun. If someone were paying me to be the SDMB fairness administrator, then I would feel an obligation to be fair, and that would probably mean pointing out unfairness from the left more than from the right just due to raw numbers. But I’m just a guy who posts for fun, and spending hours a day putting qualifiers after things that Der Trihs posts is sure as hell not my idea of fun. ---
**Author:** ![Fotheringay-Phipps](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/d9b06d/32.png) [@Fotheringay-Phipps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fotheringay-Phipps)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/126 "2011-01-25T22:23:27Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Uhh, sorry to be so nonresponsive, but I’ve utterly and completely lost track of what it is that you’re fundamentally saying ☹ Sorry. Your point was that what I’m saying means that conservatives have carte blanche to interpret everything as being partisan, even it’s actually not. My response is that the fact is that statements of this sort are either meant as partisan or highly likely to be interpreted and treated that way or have that effect, regardless of how they were meant by the poster who wrote them. That doesn’t mean that the poster is himself partisan, but it means that the one who responds has valid grounds for this. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/127 "2011-01-26T01:04:41Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Is something totally different. It doesn’t prove anything at all about the poster’s political philosophy or double standards or anything. The poster is making an observation that a certain group has, on average, done something more than another group. Now, obviously this is treacherous ground to be treading on, but in fact it’s entirely possible that Republicans HAVE been much worse offenders in bad-bill-naming. And if that’s the argument, then it’s fair to explore the issue of D vs R, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/128 "2011-01-26T02:04:26Z")
Life isn’t fair. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/129 "2011-01-26T02:54:18Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > And if that’s the argument, then it’s fair to explore the issue of D vs R, isn’t it? Sure. Just try not to do so in the dickish fashion we’ve come to know you for. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/130 "2011-01-26T03:24:09Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Life isn’t fair. Perhaps so, but that aphorism does not counsel us to create further unfairness, but rather to mitigate the extant unfairness to the extent we can. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 3:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/131 "2011-01-26T03:30:50Z")
Uh, no. The aphorism doesn’t mean to make the world more fair, it’s to point out the basic injustice in the world and blow off the people affected by telling them to suck it up and deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/132 "2011-01-26T04:54:47Z")
oopsy! (poof) gone. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/133 "2011-01-26T14:00:39Z")
> [@The\_Second\_Stone](#): > > Uh, no. The aphorism doesn’t mean to make the world more fair, it’s to point out the basic injustice in the world and blow off the people affected by telling them to suck it up and deal with it. If that’s truly the point of your comment, then why should I accept the dictum? It may be that in general life isn’t fair, but in any given instance it would seem if we have a choice between the fair and the unfair, we ought to choose the fair, thus limiting the unfair to situations where we do not have the choice. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/134 "2011-01-26T17:21:37Z")
The lefty agenda in a nutshell. Welcome aboard. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/135 "2011-01-26T17:31:08Z")
Indeed. I thought fighting social conditions seen as unfair was a hallmark of the left, or at least of bomb-toting anarchist rebels. ---
**Author:** ![MaxTheVool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc29f/32.png) [@MaxTheVool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MaxTheVool)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/136 "2011-01-26T18:13:32Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > > [@me](#): > > > > Is something totally different. It doesn’t prove anything at all about the poster’s political philosophy or double standards or anything. The poster is making an observation that a certain group has, on average, done something more than another group. Now, obviously this is treacherous ground to be treading on, but in fact it’s entirely possible that Republicans HAVE been much worse offenders in bad-bill-naming. > > And if that’s the argument, then it’s fair to explore the issue of D vs R, isn’t it? Absolutely. If someone claims “Republicans do bad-thing-X more than Democrats” then obviously it is not only appropriate but necessary to start discussing instances of these things actually being done. But of course that was not the claim made in the bill-naming thread, and there’s an important distinction between “you’ve made this claim, let’s discuss whether it’s true” and “you made some claim, but are you a hypocrite?”. ---
**Author:** ![manila](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@manila](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manila)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/137 "2011-01-26T18:27:05Z")
Well speaking as a typical Eurotrash lefty who generally considers an American Democrat no further left wing than Sarah Palin if she spits over her her shoulder in a -40 degree Alaskan winter before it freezes in the air… I kinda like Bricker. ( it was the mopery and dopery thread that did it for me ) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/138 "2011-01-26T18:41:59Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > If that’s truly the point of your comment, then why should I accept the dictum? It may be that in general life isn’t fair, but in any given instance it would seem if we have a choice between the fair and the unfair, we ought to choose the fair, thus limiting the unfair to situations where we do not have the choice. My being depressed isn’t about you. Just because this Pit Thread is about you doesn’t mean each post in it is. By all means, be fair. ---
**Author:** ![manila](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e5b9ba/32.png) [@manila](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manila)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/139 "2011-01-26T18:45:37Z")
No one of my posts was about Beryl\_Mooncalf!! ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403/140 "2011-01-26T21:49:56Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > Absolutely. If someone claims “Republicans do bad-thing-X more than Democrats” then obviously it is not only appropriate but necessary to start discussing instances of these things actually being done. But of course that was not the claim made in the bill-naming thread, and there’s an important distinction between “you’ve made this claim, let’s discuss whether it’s true” and “you made some claim, but are you a hypocrite?”. It’s even more important to first ask, “Did you make this claim?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bricker-for-subtle-reasons/568403.md?page=8)