# I pit British National Party voters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 8, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118 "2009-06-08T17:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![MJinks](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/da6949/32.png) [@MJinks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MJinks)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/41 "2009-06-09T13:16:50Z")
> [@telebox](#): > > Yet here again a distinction. BNP placard wavers are enough to get more than a few posters in this thread, frothing at the mouth .. yet waving a placard calling for those who oppose islam to be beheaded is somehow less serious. I’ve said it twice now, this’ll be the last. the reason the BNP upset me more than other hate-groups is because they now represent me and because almost a million people voted for them. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/42 "2009-06-09T14:34:28Z")
> [@G. Odoreida](#): > > But this is not the excuse to start badmouthing democracy (which I can’t help feeling is what you’re doing if you don’t vote). British people seem to see nothing but negatives in our system. They forget that none of their relatives are being imprisoned or tortured for their political beliefs. Unless you’re a Muslim of course. Plenty in this extended family based community have or had relatives in Guantanamo never charged with anything. I doubt it helps improve their view of democracy. And let’s also remember, Telebox’s memory notwithstanding, the placard waving Muslim ‘cartoon’ protesters were tracked down, prosecuted and imprisoned, ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/43 "2009-06-09T14:48:37Z")
> [@alexandra](#): > > :rolleyes: > Oh come on. > > Do the BNP even have an economic policy coherent enough to fit on the left-right scale? As far as I can gather they are very far from being [classic] liberal on economics, but they don’t really explain how they’d get every white Briton in employment. > [@](#): > > Public anxiety about immigration may have helped fuel the BNP’s rise, but the party is about more than racism and xenophobia. Under the leadership of Nick Griffin, it has worked hard to develop a full manifesto of policies – a strategy that it hopes will pay dividends by improving its image and broadening its appeal. But who exactly is the party appealing to? A brief skim through BNP manifesto literature brings to light proposals for the following: large increases in state pensions; more money for the NHS; improved worker protection; state ownership of key industries. Under Griffin, the modern-day far right has positioned itself to the left of Labour. Is the strategy working? > > In our study (to be published later this year by Routledge in The New Extremism in 21st-Century Britain), we examined a large sample of those who have voted BNP or would consider doing so. We found that the BNP is gaining new support principally from older, less educated, white working-class men – voters from Labour’s historical base who feel they have benefited little from the past decade of Labour government, and whose resentments the BNP has succeeded in articulating. Published in the [New Statesman.](http://www.newstatesman.com/europe/2009/04/bnp-european-party-british) Add to this the BNP’s coopting of the “British jobs for British workers” slogan from Gordon Brown and their use of the slogan “the Labour party your parents voted for” and it becomes clear that the BNP has to be considered a left-leaning party when evaluated on economic policy, and they are seeking voters disgusted with the performance of Labour, the traditional left-wing party of Britain. If they are called right-wing at all, it is solely because of their racial attitudes. I feel this is a mistake - history tells us that racism cannot be considered a left-wing or right-wing phenomenon. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/44 "2009-06-09T15:01:57Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > If they are called right-wing at all, it is solely because of their racial attitudes. I feel this is a mistake - history tells us that racism cannot be considered a left-wing or right-wing phenomenon. It is _more_ of a right-wing phenomenon, but certainly not unknown on the left. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/45 "2009-06-09T15:17:53Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > Add to this the BNP’s coopting of the “British jobs for British workers” slogan from Gordon Brown and their use of the slogan “the Labour party your parents voted for” and it becomes clear that the BNP has to be considered a left-leaning party when evaluated on economic policy, and they are seeking voters disgusted with the performance of Labour, the traditional left-wing party of Britain. Come on, **Mr. Moto** , you seem way smarter than that. What that woul dmean is that the BNP has to be considered to wish to be viewed as a left-leaning party when evaluated on economic policy. They know full well their exonomic policies are never going to have any impact - they aren’t going to join any governing body at any stage. So they can express populist economic views, much as fascists have done through history. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/46 "2009-06-09T15:25:55Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > While i’m not going to disagree on exactly the same point others have, nor with your characterization of Labour, I do have to disagree on one thing. Why assume the BBC decry the BNP as far right in order to tar the Tories? I mean, for what reason do you believe the people who set their political standards don’t honestly just disagree with you, but actually agree and lie? I don’t think that the BBC are lying; I think that they’re conflating authoritarian with right-wing. They’re not making the difference. And it’s therefore guilt by association. IIRC it caused a few hiccups on a recent TV program when Mr Brons was revealed to be an out-and-out socialist. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/47 "2009-06-09T15:26:08Z")
They are fascist fucks. You can call them left or right as people have been debating if fascist fucks are left or right for decades now as neither the soft left or right want anything to do with them. Either way one thing is clear. A fascist fuck is a fascist fuck and they should be ignored and dismissed as much as possible. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/48 "2009-06-09T15:37:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Nobody is calling for the BNP to be banned. We just wish they’d shut the fuck up. Not me. I wish they’d have every opportunity to talk and answer questions about themselves, so that everyone could see \*exactly \*what they stand for and what sort of people join the party. And I’m happy to pit anyone who voted for anyone calling for people to be beheaded. Were they running for office? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_stafford_cripps/32/7167_2.png) [@The\_Stafford\_Cripps](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Stafford_Cripps)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/49 "2009-06-09T15:40:36Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Unless you’re a Muslim of course. Plenty in this extended family based community have or had relatives in Guantanamo never charged with anything. I doubt it helps improve their view of democracy. > > And let’s also remember, Telebox’s memory notwithstanding, the placard waving Muslim ‘cartoon’ protesters were tracked down, prosecuted and imprisoned, Fair points, despite my above post I am no supporter of the ways New Labour have responded to the post 11/9 situation. Keep voting though, voter apathy will just make things worse. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/50 "2009-06-09T15:49:07Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > I don’t think that the BBC are lying; I think that they’re conflating authoritarian with right-wing. They’re not making the difference. And it’s therefore guilt by association. Enough with the persecution bullshit; noted lefty rag the Daily Telegraph refers to the BNP as “far right” [constantly](http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site%3Atelegraph.co.uk+bnp+%22far+right%22&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-GB:unofficial&client=firefox-a), are they trying to tar the Tories with the same brush? Yes yes, we’re all enlightened types who’ve taken the political compass test, but the simple fact of the matter is that the term “far right” has been used for absolutely ages to refer to nasty racist nationalists, and its continued use is not in any way intended to smear the Conservatives by association. Yes, the BNP have a semi-coherent economic policy these days, and yes, it’s unimaginative vaguely left-wing stodge, but to pretend that this is their overriding characteristic is just silly. They’re predominantly racist economic illiterates, and people of that ilk have been referred to for many, many years as “far right”. Get over it. > [@Gyrate](#): > > Not me. I wish they’d have every opportunity to talk and answer questions about themselves, so that everyone could see exactly what they stand for and what sort of people join the party. Amen. Their councillors are almost universally dissolute layabouts who disrupt proceedings when they bother to turn up, and are frequently involved in criminal activity when absent. I look forward to even more evidence of the BNP’s intrinsic fuckwittery in the coming months. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/51 "2009-06-09T17:06:33Z")
> [@Quartz](#): > > This is one area where Labour et al have got it completely wrong: the BNP isn’t a far-right party. It’s a socialist **authoritarian** party. One of the BNP people elected, Andrew Brons, was originally a member of the National Socialist party. Labour, the BBC, et al, decry the BNP as far right to tar the Conservatives by association. Regarding the National Socialist Party: 1. Do you believe that they are a socialist party because one of the words in their name is “socialist”? 2. If I call myself a socialist, does that make me a socialist? ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/52 "2009-06-09T17:11:47Z")
Cameron calls them **Nazi** thugs > [@](#): > > Mr Cameron hit back: "Go and have a look at what the BNP have said. Do not be naïve about what these people stand for – they dress up in a suit and knock on your door in a nice way, but they are still Nazi thugs. [http://www.thisiswesternmorningnews.co.uk/news/CAMERON-BRANDS-BNP-NAZI-THUGS/article-1030050-detail/article.html](http://www.thisiswesternmorningnews.co.uk/news/CAMERON-BRANDS-BNP-NAZI-THUGS/article-1030050-detail/article.html) ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/53 "2009-06-09T17:16:45Z")
It’s nice to see the Tories condemning the far right. After Thatcher’s pandering to the National Front and all. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/54 "2009-06-09T17:23:51Z")
> [@villa](#): > > It’s nice to see the Tories condemning the far right. After Thatcher’s pandering to the National Front and all. Well, since Thatcher’s pandering put the National Front out of business, you can’t really call the Tories out for it. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/55 "2009-06-09T17:26:58Z")
**Quartz** is coming from the same POV as these guys. [http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2009/06/the-bnp-is-not-the-far-right.html](http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2009/06/the-bnp-is-not-the-far-right.html) There is a debate there as you can see from searching GD about this subject. I don’t agree with **Quartz** but a lot of people do. Mostly right wingers I would guess 😉 As I said neither legitimate sides want the stain of these pricks on their side and I can understand that motivation. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/56 "2009-06-09T17:41:38Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, since Thatcher’s pandering put the National Front out of business, you can’t really call the Tories out for it. I fucking can. She had a choice to stand up and oppose racism, or coopt the racists into the Tory party. She chose the latter course. One of the many things she did that will lead me to throw a party when she finally goes tits up. ---
**Author:** ![telebox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ea924/32.png) [@telebox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/telebox)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/57 "2009-06-09T18:33:21Z")
> [@G. Odoreida](#): > > Please give a single example of a poster here, or a commentator or politician, who is on record as having said that fundamentalists demanding murder is a less serious issue than the election of BNP MEPs. > > Also, could you give any evidence you have that there is a significant number of people calling for the BNP to be banned? First off the banning of the BNP was something I said I would not be opposed to, since I can foresee what wouLd become of this country with them at the helm. And where did ‘a significant number’ come into this ? As regards your request for details of a poster, commentator, politician **who is on record** and your choice of words there I have repeated in bold as they are key to my argument over the relativistic and duplicitous approach to the issue. No politician or journo is going to go on record and say ‘It’s ok to incite murder ?’ Are they ? The fact remains that Abu Hamza stood in the street doing precisely that from 1991, I believe, until sometime around 2004/5. Here are some of the pronoucements he has been allowed to make … ON NON-MUSLIMS (KAFIRS) Killing a Kafir who is fighting you is OK. Killing a Kafir for any reason, you can say it, it is OK - even if there is no reason for it ON WINE SHOPS Don’t go to the man who is selling a wine shop and tell him please why you selling the wine shop, come to the mosque? Make sure that the man who gave him the licence for that wine shop does not exist anymore on the Earth. Finish him up ON JEWS We do not hate Jews because they hurt each other we hate them for their corruption on earth. A Jew cannot look a Muslim in the eye or pass him knowing they have oppressed a Muslim or some other Jew had oppressed a Muslim elsewhere. So nation of Mohammed must regain their dignity and this dignity would not be regained unless with blood. > **[BBC NEWS | UK | In quotes: Hamza's preachings](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4690084.stm)** > > Extracts from Abu Hamza al-Masri's preachings of hate heard at his Old Bailey trial. - So to clarify … he was allowed to preach such statements for over a decade, and that is ok with you ? But if Nick Griffin says anything like this ‘Lets hit the streets.’ The police maintained a presence throughout so they knew what was going on. He featured in occasional news broadcasts which quoted his sermons, I am also pretty sure MI5 knew what was happening. We had Mohammed Al Bakri calling the 9 / 11 terrorists ‘The Magnificent 19’. > **[UK cleric urging Muslims to join Al Qaeda via internet - Bakri still not...](http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/381)** There was aso Abu Izzadeen who called the 7 July Train Bombers ‘competely praiseworthy’ on a BBC documentary. > **[Abu Izzadeen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Izzadeen)** > > Abu Izzadeen (Arabic: أبو عز الدين, Abū ‘Izz ad-Dīn; born Trevor Richard Brooks on 18 April 1975) is a British spokesman for Al Ghurabaa, a British Muslim organisation banned under the Terrorism Act 2006 for the glorification of terrorism. He was convicted on charges of terrorist fund-raising and inciting terrorism overseas on 17 April 2008 and sentenced to four and a half years in jail. He was released in May 2009, after serving three and a half years, including time on remand. In Ja Abu Izza... You can argue over a Wikipedia cite - but I watched the documentary and saw / heard him say it. There was also the Channel 4 doc where they went undercover in a mosque to film the preaching of doctrine advocating violence. The editors were interviewed by the police, accused of malicious falsehood, and subsequently won a court judgement against the police, vindicating themselves over this allegation. > **[The Latest News from the UK and Around the World | Sky News](https://news.sky.com/)** > > Sky News delivers breaking news, headlines and top stories from business, politics, entertainment and more in the UK and worldwide. > **[Police apologise for mosque documentary slur](https://www.independent.co.uk/news/media/police-apologise-for-mosque-documentary-slur-828658.html)** > > The Crown Prosecution Service and West Midlands Police today publicly apologised and paid a six-figure sum for accusing a Channel 4 documentary exposing extremism in Britain's mosques of misleading editing, the broadcaster said today. - None of them were interviewed, detained, arrested, charged for any of this. So no poltician or journalist went public and supported them obviously, yet none condemned them for what is at the very least dubious, and at worst criminal. Had they said ’ kill all blacks’ would you take the same stance ? Please can someone explain how a right wing racist spouting such filth is unhesitatingly condemned … yet when a self proclaimed muslim ‘cleric’ does so it’s not so bad. ---
**Author:** ![telebox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ea924/32.png) [@telebox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/telebox)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/58 "2009-06-09T18:44:08Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I fucking can. She had a choice to stand up and oppose racism, or coopt the racists into the Tory party. She chose the latter course. One of the many things she did that will lead me to throw a party when she finally goes tits up. Exactly how many people do you know who lived in the former communist bloc of Eastern Europe. I have met hundreds since I teach english, and without exception they are openly anti jewish, anti muslim, and anti black. They held those views under the communist system, and never shook them off when ‘The Wall’ came down. East Germany, Poland, Czech Rep. the views are there. They encountered vietnamese, and chinese since both were communist countries and their governments wanted a public show of ‘solidarity.’ Likewise they took black workers from places like Angola and Mozambique. Those people were never accepted The above views are also held with respect Gypsies who are synonymous with theft, underhand business practices, and even kidnapping of children to add to their gene pool. To infer that this is somehow a mindset of conservatism or a creation of Thatcher is absurd. ---
**Author:** ![telebox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ea924/32.png) [@telebox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/telebox)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/59 "2009-06-09T18:53:00Z")
villa - since you are in ‘True Blue Virginia.’ When Churchill was in the United States he was accosted and asked ‘What are you going to do with the Indians.’ His reply ‘Leastways madam - not what you did with yours.’ He had a point. And I believe more than a few Democrats were in at the beginning of the KKK. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/60 "2009-06-09T18:55:31Z")
What on earth are you talking about? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118.md?page=4)