# I pit British National Party voters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 8, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118 "2009-06-08T17:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/81 "2009-06-09T21:14:40Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Omar Bakri, for all his Al-Quaeda cheerleading, has never gotten anyone to break any law. > [@telebox](#): > > Sorry you know that because … ? One, Bakri is more of a joke than anything. Read _Them_, by Jon Ronson. You’ll get a far different picture of him. He’s the Islamic-radical equivalent of the modern Klansman - startling, but not scary… and eventually just funny. Second, it doesn’t matter whether I know that. In Britain, you have the wonderful legal principle that one is innocent until proven guilty- and Bakri, as far as I am aware, has not been charged with anything, much less convicted. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/82 "2009-06-09T21:15:20Z")
> [@telebox](#): > > You can indeed pit the BNP for their prejudice. Likewise I can ask why them and not others. Could you do us a favour then and give us a list of parralel thread subjects that the OP should have started along with this one that would have satisfied your obvious strong sense of fair play? FFS! It’s headline news, it’s the first time in quite a while that a Mosley wannabe has had such success and you’re wondering why someone started a thread about this and not something else? Really? ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/83 "2009-06-09T21:26:54Z")
Workmate: That episode of the Ross show was a bit weak last night. **telebox** : I totally respect your point but I cannot let you continue until you address all the sub-standard talk shows. What about Paul O’Grady, Loose Women, Phil and Fern? Workmate: But I watched it last night and … **telebox** : Chris Moyles, Richard and Judy, Harold Wilson with a pipe no less. Why, why, why do you not address them? Workmate: … ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/84 "2009-06-09T21:29:15Z")
Why does this line of argument always come up when dealing with fascists/racism? The BNP suck! Yes, but what about Islamicists? or… The Holocaust was an abhorrent crime! Yes, but what about Stalin’s treatment of his own people? or… Slavery was a great evil! Yes, but what about black leaders in Africa abusing their own people? It’s almost like the people who do it have an axe to grind. ---
**Author:** ![Dorothea\_Book](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dorothea\_Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorothea_Book)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/85 "2009-06-09T21:30:10Z")
> [@telebox](#): > > I am. > > My question, was why the BNP receive such bile, yet the others are apparently free to preach the exact same hatred from the opposite perspective, and indeed why many who condemn the BNP, have tried to downplay or mitigate for the opposite view. Could it be because the contexts for these two extreme political positions are very different? In one case you have the extreme end of an immigrant or immigrant-descended group, the great majority of whom are peaceful Britons. In the interests of that overall group, so as not exacerbate prejudice or foment extremism, reasonable people do not take to the streets to protest the non-elected proponents of such extremism. By contrast, you have the representative of a political party that claims to speak for “indigenous” Britons. Britons of any background can protest these extreme white views knowing that there is no fear of exacerbating prejudice against a minority because “indigenous” Britons are the majority of the population. In sum: Whereas white Britons who want to ally with non-extremists among their immigrant or immigrant-descended fellows have little incentive to take to the streets over a vocal extremist with no official political power, they have a clear incentive to protest the political legitimization of a racist politician who claims to speak for them. ---
**Author:** ![telebox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ea924/32.png) [@telebox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/telebox)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/86 "2009-06-09T22:45:29Z")
Fear not the religion of peace has struck back with constructive debate … [http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090609/ap\_on\_re\_as/as\_pakistan](http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090609/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan) Allah be praised. Don’t all rush to reply - a BNP representative might use a naughty word in reference to this incident. Feel free to keep this thread with regular updates on people murdered by the BNP and by islamic extremists. ---
**Author:** ![Dorothea\_Book](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dorothea\_Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorothea_Book)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/87 "2009-06-09T22:56:31Z")
> [@telebox](#): > > Fear not the religion of peace has struck back with constructive debate … Huh? Are you now suggesting that those who protested the BNP support suicide bombers in Pakistan? ---
**Author:** ![telebox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ea924/32.png) [@telebox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/telebox)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/88 "2009-06-09T23:03:02Z")
villa / yojimbo You don’t live in the UK. I do. The issue of the BNP therefore concerns me and this country not you in Ireland or the USA. Likewise the bombings that occured in '05, and the agitating for further attacks. If my opinion doesn’t sit well with you two , too frigging bad. ---
**Author:** ![telebox](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7ea924/32.png) [@telebox](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/telebox)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/89 "2009-06-09T23:04:55Z")
> [@Dorothea\_Book](#): > > Huh? Are you now suggesting that those who protested the BNP support suicide bombers in Pakistan? Nope. But you have agree that their debating skills certainly convey their disapproval very effectively. ---
**Author:** ![Dorothea\_Book](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dorothea\_Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorothea_Book)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/90 "2009-06-09T23:11:16Z")
> [@telebox](#): > > Nope. But you have agree that their debating skills certainly convey their disapproval very effectively. Well, no, because I don’t think the debate has ever been about suicide bombers or the Taliban. Surely you don’t believe that average Pakistani immigrant in Britain is cheering on the suicide bombers, do you? And do you think that if some particular Pakistani immigrant publicized that view that he or she would be cheered on by anti-BNP protestors? Anyway, I offered you an answer to your question which has nothing to do with suicide bombings so perhaps you can think that over. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/91 "2009-06-09T23:12:26Z")
> [@telebox](#): > > villa / yojimbo > > You don’t live in the UK. I do. The issue of the BNP therefore concerns me and this country not you in Ireland or the USA. Likewise the bombings that occured in '05, and the agitating for further attacks. > > If my opinion doesn’t sit well with you two , too frigging bad. Heh. Try a Brit board then flyboy. If you don’t like a foreigner on your case on a international board, well, too frigging bad as it were. You seem to have no problem in talking about Eastern Bloc countries and Pakistani affairs. In closing, lick my bag. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [June 9, 2009, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/92 "2009-06-09T23:33:40Z")
> [@telebox](#): > > villa / yojimbo > > You don’t live in the UK. I do. The issue of the BNP therefore concerns me and this country not you in Ireland or the USA. Likewise the bombings that occured in '05, and the agitating for further attacks. > > If my opinion doesn’t sit well with you two , too frigging bad. Well, this Londoner would like you to stop being a twat and start using that thing between your ears to think for a bit. Or do you only listen to your countrymen when they agree with you? ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/93 "2009-06-10T00:35:30Z")
> [@GorillaMan](#): > > Actually, the BNP are very careful to _not_ say this out loud, to many sectors of their target audience - ‘British jobs for British workers’ was their rallying-cry this time around. Many, if not most, of the people who voted for them did so having been thoroughly misled and manipulated. Well, then, honesty needs to be brought out. An honest mechanism such as “to register a vote for the BNP, publicly drop trou and crap on the grave of a WWII veteran” will do. ---
**Author:** ![Hyperelastic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a3d4f5/32.png) [@Hyperelastic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hyperelastic)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/94 "2009-06-10T00:54:06Z")
> [@Dorothea\_Book](#): > > Surely you don’t believe that average Pakistani immigrant in Britain is cheering on the suicide bombers, do you? According to [this](http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf) poll, about 24% of UK Muslims feel suicide bombing can be justifiable. I don’t know which is the most disturbing result of that poll, that number or the finding that only 40% of US Muslims believe Arabs were responsible for 9/11. Maybe they think Bin Laden is an Eskimo or something. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/95 "2009-06-10T00:59:51Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > According to [this](http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf) poll, about 24% of UK Muslims feel suicide bombing can be justifiable. I don’t know which is the most disturbing result of that poll, that number or the finding that only 40% of US Muslims believe Arabs were responsible for 9/11. Maybe they think Bin Laden is an Eskimo or something. That _is_ rather shocking (the relevant stuff starts on p. 57). ---
**Author:** ![SciFiSam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/47e85d/32.png) [@SciFiSam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SciFiSam)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/96 "2009-06-10T02:50:23Z")
A thread about the BNP ends up being a thread about how bad fundamentalist Muslims are? Nick Griffin would LOVE that. ---
**Author:** ![Dorothea\_Book](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dorothea\_Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorothea_Book)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/97 "2009-06-10T03:04:13Z")
> [@Hyperelastic](#): > > According to [this](http://pewresearch.org/assets/pdf/muslim-americans.pdf) poll, about 24% of UK Muslims feel suicide bombing can be justifiable. Although the statistics are certainly interesting and would be worth discussing in a thread on that topic here are several reasons why they don’t do very much to explain **telebox** ’s views in _this_ thread: 1. The survey says that when asked if suicide bombing is justified “in order to defend Islam from its enemies” 70% of British Muslims–not immigrants mind you, just Muslims–replied “never,” 9% rarely, 12 % sometimes, and 3% often (with the remainder not answering). This is in answer not to a question that asks about supporting Taliban violence in Pakistan but about “defending Islam from its enemies” (probably evoking the Palestinian situation most of all). Yet 70% still answer never and 9% rarely. **So, yes, much though the figure could be even higher, the great majority of UK _Muslims_ opposes suicide bombing to defend Islam from its enemies** –even in Israel one must conclude. (Doubtless the number of Pakistani immigrants or Pakistani-descended Britons who support the Taliban’s attacks in Pakistan is significantly lower.) The survey also says that **52% of British Muslims are “very concerned” and 25% “somewhat concerned” about the rise of Islamic extremism in the world** –once again, the great majority of UK Muslims feel much as **telebox** , presumably, could wish them to. 2. The BNP’s anti-immigration position and focus on “indigenous” Britons is not only offensive to Muslims but to many other immigrant groups: non-Muslim Indians, Africans, Afro-Caribbeans, and Eastern Europeans, for example. 3. Even if one concludes from this survey that 70% isn’t good enough, the answer to reaching out to these British Muslims is not to support the racist and Islamophobic BNP. Agreed? 4. Finally–and most pertinent to **telebox** ’s comments on the topic–who among the anti-BNP protestors is defending the actions of the recent suicide bombers or any other suicide bombers or defending any Muslims or other immigrant or immigrant-descendent groups who speak out in support of suicide bombers? As to American Muslims, the report (which is actually about American Muslims) seems to regard them as largely “middle-class and mainstream.” The stat about 9/11 attackers is pretty bizarre but then again doesn’t an even greater number of (presumably non-Muslim) Americans, well over 50% IIRC, think that Iraqis were the 9/11 attackers? ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/98 "2009-06-10T08:42:33Z")
> [@yojimbo](#): > > **Quartz** is coming from the same POV as these guys. > > [http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2009/06/the-bnp-is-not-the-far-right.html](http://conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2009/06/the-bnp-is-not-the-far-right.html) That’s not a site I frequent. > [@](#): > > As I said neither legitimate sides want the stain of these pricks on their side and I can understand that motivation. QFT ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/99 "2009-06-10T09:08:42Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > I think I missed the bit where Abu Hamza was running for public office. Nick Griffin is perfectly free to stand on street corners and spout lunacy all he likes; it’s when he purports to represent me that I object most strenuously. Well you had your chance to do something about it last Thursday. Unfortunately one of the downsides of a Democracy is the fact that sometimes we get representatives that either we don’t like or who don’t represent our views. Throwing eggs and complaining after the fact and trying to ban them is ridiculous. Next time we just need more people to vote against them and they won’t get in. As others have already said the BNP councillors always seem to perform poorly when in office, so they will shoot themselves in the foot and be out at the next election. Why get so wound up about it? It’s not like they have enough clout to make a difference and they will never get the support to be a party of government, would you get this cross over the Monster Raving Loony Party? What if a muslim extremist stood as an independent and was elected, would you object then? It could happen, possibly in Bradford. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/100 "2009-06-10T10:24:10Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I think as an English teacher you should practice reading for comprehension a little more… > > Try reading what **Really Not All That Bright** has said. Though, to be honest, I was also referring to her despicable crocodile tear filled speech before she came to power about her culture being swamped. I remember a classic Punch cartoon about that. Thatcher is talking to a little old Asian guy outside his corners store and saying ‘I’m sorry Mr Patel, but you are swamping us with your alien culture’. Above them both loom giant McDonald’s, Burger King, Coke and Pepsi signs. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118.md?page=6)