# I pit British National Party voters **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [June 8, 2009, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118 "2009-06-08T17:48:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/101 "2009-06-10T10:27:07Z")
> [@Mr.Moto](#): > > I’m not sure how it helps the overall cause to chase away a Nazi by using brownshirt tactics - but you can make your own call on that. It worked in 30’s Britain when the East End chased Moseley’s fascist thugs from the streets. I’m totally cool with doing the same again. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/102 "2009-06-10T12:55:50Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > It worked in 30’s Britain when the East End chased Moseley’s fascist thugs from the streets. I’m totally cool with doing the same again. The irony of that statement appears to be lost on you. We can’t fight fascism and ignorance by becoming ignorant and fascist. As has been stated previously the BNP will inevitably self destruct becasue the candidates they field cannot cope with real multi issue politics. So wait a few years and we can vote them out, why get so wound up about it? Freedom of speech is one of the great benefits of our society, if we can justify eroding it for one group it becomes much easier to erode it for others, until there is only one voice, the party line. This is not a road I want to go down. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/103 "2009-06-10T13:07:13Z")
> [@telebox](#): > > villa / yojimbo > > You don’t live in the UK. I do. The issue of the BNP therefore concerns me and this country not you in Ireland or the USA. Likewise the bombings that occured in '05, and the agitating for further attacks. > > If my opinion doesn’t sit well with you two , too frigging bad. It isn’t really your opinion that doesn’t sit well with me, it is your utter stupidity. You don’t know my opinion of Islamic fundamentalism, because I have brought it up because of its complete lack of relevance to a thread about the BNP. What is your problem? You claim to oppose the BNP, but you are unable to allow anything to be said about them without saying other people are just as bad or worse. To me, that suggests your disapproval of our little jack booted friends might not be 100% honest. ---
**Author:** ![Rayne\_Man](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/df705f/32.png) [@Rayne\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rayne_Man)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 1:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/104 "2009-06-10T13:08:07Z")
This week’s _Private Eye_ has some interesting facts about Andrew Brons, the other BNP MEP:- “He cut his political teeth back in the 1960’s in the National Socialist Movement, whose members were best known for for strutting around in mock-SS uniforms and fire bombing synagogues. He was the pet pupil of Britain’s best-known Nazis, Colin Jordan and John Tyndall, who shared Bron’s penchant for fancy dress” “in the 1980’s he and a National Front colleague scared several old ladies out of their wits by shouting ‘Death to Jews’ while selling party newspapers. When asked to desist by PC John Raj , Brons replied ‘I am aware of my legal rights. Inferior beings like you do not appreciate the principles of free speech’. He was fined £50 for insulting words and behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace.” ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/105 "2009-06-10T13:21:53Z")
> [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](#): > > Throwing eggs and complaining after the fact and trying to ban them is ridiculous. Next time we just need more people to vote against them and they won’t get in. Has anyone in this thread advocated banning them? No? Good. Shut up. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/106 "2009-06-10T14:06:43Z")
> [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](#): > > The irony of that statement appears to be lost on you. > > We can’t fight fascism and ignorance by becoming ignorant and fascist. > > As has been stated previously the BNP will inevitably self destruct becasue the candidates they field cannot cope with real multi issue politics. So wait a few years and we can vote them out, why get so wound up about it? > > Freedom of speech is one of the great benefits of our society, if we can justify eroding it for one group it becomes much easier to erode it for others, until there is only one voice, the party line. This is not a road I want to go down. Fuck off you self righteous prick. ---
**Author:** ![Dorothea\_Book](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dorothea\_Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorothea_Book)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/107 "2009-06-10T14:14:56Z")
> [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](#): > > We can’t fight fascism and ignorance by becoming ignorant and fascist. > > As has been stated previously the BNP will inevitably self destruct becasue the candidates they field cannot cope with real multi issue politics. So wait a few years and we can vote them out, why get so wound up about it? > > Freedom of speech is one of the great benefits of our society… I agree with your first statement, **Walker in Eternity** , but not with the assumption that the egg-throwing incident was ignorant and fascist (much less that the East End’s anti-fascist resistance in the 1930s was ignorant and fascist). You say you don’t want an established party line to dominate British politics and yet you advocate a serene attitude in the expectation of business as usual. I actually think its the latter kind of political passivity which is more likely to suppress political diversity than a few eggs thrown at an elected racist. It’s good, in other words, for a swathe of the British public to get visibly “wound up” about this kind of thing, demonstrating the non-acceptability of racist politics for the benefit of the less attentive electorate. Sometimes people asleep at the civic wheel (dulled after decades of alternately Tory and Labor rule) need to be reminded about the meaning of their vote–a few eggs isn’t going to turn London into 1930s Berlin. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/108 "2009-06-10T14:19:29Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Has anyone in this thread advocated banning them? No? Good. Shut up. “We support everyone’s right to free speech, so shut up.” 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/109 "2009-06-10T14:33:22Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > “We support everyone’s right to free speech, so shut up.” > > 😛 I support the BNP’s right to free speech. **WIE** I’m ambivalent on. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/110 "2009-06-10T14:36:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Has anyone in this thread advocated banning them? No? Good. Shut up. Isn’t running them out of town the same, one way or the other you’re interfering with their right to free speech. ---
**Author:** ![scareyfaerie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scareyfaerie/32/3135_2.png) [@scareyfaerie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scareyfaerie)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/111 "2009-06-10T14:36:56Z")
> [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](#): > > Freedom of speech is one of the great benefits of our society, if we can justify eroding it for one group it becomes much easier to erode it for others, until there is only one voice, the party line. Strangely enough, the group who organised the egg-incident yesterday were quoted in the press as saying they believed in freedom of speech, just not for the BNP. Perhaps “Unite against Fascism” are more fascist than they’d have you believe. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/112 "2009-06-10T14:38:01Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > Fuck off you self righteous prick. Right back at you. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/113 "2009-06-10T14:44:40Z")
> [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](#): > > Isn’t running them out of town the same, one way or the other you’re interfering with their right to free speech. Who advocated “running them out of town”? ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/114 "2009-06-10T14:47:51Z")
> [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](#): > > Isn’t running them out of town the same, one way or the other you’re interfering with their right to free speech. I don’t support the government banning the BNP (nor do I support the ridiculous laws passed infringing on freedom of speech). I have no problem with disrupting BNP events - they are entitled to, and have always received, police protection. I’m also in favor of communities organizing against the BNP, making clear that they are not welcome in that community, that if they try and march there, or have a book store there, consequences will result. The BNP is more than just a political party - they thrive off intimidating their opponents, and those people who they view as less than human. As a result, I have little problem if counter organizations make BNP members scared to show their evil faces. ---
**Author:** ![Dorothea\_Book](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/da6949/32.png) [@Dorothea\_Book](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dorothea_Book)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/115 "2009-06-10T14:49:11Z")
> [@ScareyFaerie](#): > > Strangely enough, the group who organised the egg-incident yesterday were quoted in the press as saying they believed in freedom of speech, just not for the BNP. > > Perhaps “Unite against Fascism” are more fascist than they’d have you believe. Can you provide the source for that quotation so that it can be seen in context? Bear in mind that rightwing fascists are notorious for gussying up their antics in free speech rhetoric. For example, see [this](http://www.uaf.org.uk/news.asp?choice=71129) link, from Unite against Fascism’s website, regarding protests against a 2007 “free speech forum” featuring holocaust deniers (including the BNP’s Griffin). As many have said, protest is also a form of speech. The protestor’s claim, “you are wrong and I am here to oppose everything that you stand for,” does not deny or seek to deny the other group’s free speech; it denies the legitimacy of what they are saying. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/116 "2009-06-10T14:49:27Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Who advocated “running them out of town”? I do. I hadn’t in this thread before, but I support it wholeheartedly. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/117 "2009-06-10T14:50:41Z")
> [@villa](#): > > I do. I hadn’t in this thread before, but I support it wholeheartedly. Well, they’re off to Brussels for a while. Will that do? 😃 ETA: Not Brussels. Strasbourg. I think. Somewhere with pátê, at any rate. ---
**Author:** ![Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/46a35a/32.png) [@Walker\_in\_Eternity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Walker_in_Eternity)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/118 "2009-06-10T14:53:01Z")
> [@Dorothea\_Book](#): > > I agree with your first statement, **Walker in Eternity** , but not with the assumption that the egg-throwing incident was ignorant and fascist (much less that the East End’s anti-fascist resistance in the 1930s was ignorant and fascist). > > You say you don’t want an established party line to dominate British politics and yet you advocate a serene attitude in the expectation of business as usual. I actually think its the latter kind of political passivity which is more likely to suppress political diversity than a few eggs thrown at an elected racist. > > It’s good, in other words, for a swathe of the British public to get visibly “wound up” about this kind of thing, demonstrating the non-acceptability of racist politics for the benefit of the less attentive electorate. Sometimes people asleep at the civic wheel (dulled after decades of alternately Tory and Labor rule) need to be reminded about the meaning of their vote–a few eggs isn’t going to turn London into 1930s Berlin. Ok, I wasn’t around in the 1930s to witness it so I can’t really comment, but some of the frothing at the mouth hatred of the BNP here is almost as as worrying as their policies. Even more so given the fact that some are American and a. it’s not their problem and b. they have got enough homegrown nutters of their own e.g. anti-abortionists, christian right wingers to name but two. It is good to have an honest and open debate on the matter, let’s face it if everyone knew what the BNP was about they would have less support, but as soon as morons like **Tagos** start throwing eggs at them you’ve given them ammunition to gain more support. The system does need a shake up, but throwing eggs isn’t the way to do it. To be honest it’s fairly childish and generally is carried out by morons who haven’t got a well thought out argument. Let’s face it any halfway decent politician of whatever party could make any BNP candidate look stupid in a debate, why bother with the eggs and vitriol? BTW my post wasn’t in favour of any party line just a warning that if we carry on eroding freedom of speech then that’s what we end up with. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/119 "2009-06-10T14:54:34Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well, they’re off to Brussels for a while. Will that do? 😃 > > ETA: Not Brussels. Strasbourg. I think. Somewhere with pátê, at any rate. The good people of Strasbourg have done nothing to deserve that tab wanker Griffin. Does the UK still claim Rockall? Can’t we set it up as an enclave for the White Power Rangers? ---
**Author:** ![scareyfaerie](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scareyfaerie/32/3135_2.png) [@scareyfaerie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scareyfaerie)\ **Post date:** [June 10, 2009, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118/120 "2009-06-10T14:56:22Z")
> [@Dorothea\_Book](#): > > Can you provide the source for that quotation so that it can be seen in context?. Not without having a good look for it! It was either on the BBC’s news website or it would have been in the Times. I remember reading it and thinking that the UaF were essentially no better than those they protested against for coming out with comments like that, but I can’t say for sure where I read it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-british-national-party-voters/499118.md?page=7)