# I pit Bush for accepting the Purple Heart **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 24, 2007, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443 "2007-04-24T13:00:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/281 "2007-04-27T02:26:22Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] but, come on, when you come into a Dope thread and express a view that political criticism of Bush (even the most wingnut verbal attacks) have injured him in a manner analogous to being wounded in combat…well, it’s hard to take you seriously. I honestly think you were half-way trolling. You can’t possibly really _believe_ that. [/QUOTE] I do. Sadly, we didn’t get to discuss it in good faith. > [@](#): > > Can you agree that it would have been more appropriate for the President to accept the medal as a gift – even to invite the couple to the White House – but to politely decline the citation with the grounds that he did not deserve that kind of comparison to soldiers on the ground? No. I don’t think that’s the case. I think you would have had an argument if Bush tried to publicize this, or held an open ceremony with the press. It was pretty low key though. I wouldn’t have known about without this thread. It didn’t make CNN or Fox that I’m aware of. The only reason I think that we know about it is because of the guy who was giving it. ---
**Author:** ![Mapache](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/58956e/32.png) [@Mapache](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mapache)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/282 "2007-04-27T02:56:01Z")
Warning: Hijack. But I’m not going to open another pit thread and annoy Tomndeb. [QUOTE=Liberal] Maybe it’s something to do with a Southern upbringing, but I’ve never known graciously accepting an unmerited and unsolicited gift to be a bad thing. If a man gave me his medal because of his admiration for me, the very last thing I would do is insult him by sending him away with rejection, no matter how politely worded. Substitute someone you admire for “Bush” in this scenario, and ask yourself whether you couldn’t see it from a different point of view. [/QUOTE] Liberal’s hypocrisy would be astounding if it weren’t his regular style. I wasn’t brought up to the level of Southern Gentility he claims, but I was taught that if someone addresses you in a reasonably polite manner, it is rather rude to ignore his communication. I pitted Lib/C.W. a couple weeks ago (the first time I have pitted anyone, and I hope the last) because when I politely disagreed with some points he was trying to make, and even more politely asked him specifically to answer me, he first insulted me, then performed the message board equivalent of putting his nose in the air and turning his back. Just what he claims his Southern upbringing wouldn’t possibly allow him to do. He’s a hypocrite, but you all already knew that, so this post doesn’t really carry much weight, I suppose. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/283 "2007-04-27T03:13:36Z")
I still don’t get the whole “To reject a compliment that goes too far would be an insult itself” thing. I’d say quite the opposite; to accept an accolade that you didn’t earn or deserve would be an insult to anyone who recieved it genuinely. It would make you look pretty self-centred, too. Not that i’m bashing **Liberal’s** Southern upbringing; just pointing out that there are other views of politeness to someone who’s never heard it to be bad. I suppose you could call it \*my \* Southern upbringing. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Carrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f0a364/32.png) [@Captain\_Carrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Carrot)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/284 "2007-04-27T03:15:51Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > > [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > > > but, come on, when you come into a Dope thread and express a view that political criticism of Bush (even the most wingnut verbal attacks) have injured him in a manner analogous to being wounded in combat…well, it’s hard to take you seriously. I honestly think you were half-way trolling. You can’t possibly really believe that. > > I do. Oh, come now, **Scylla**. I have had a great deal of respect for you, but how is an insult remotely like being physically wounded? Hyperbole and exaggeration are one thing, but this is fucking ridiculous. If someone calls me nasty names, that’s going to make me feel bad, but that is in no way comparable to getting shot or hit by shrapnel or what have you. It’s disingenuous to imply that they are even vaguely equivalent. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 3:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/285 "2007-04-27T03:22:54Z")
[QUOTE=Captain Carrot] Oh, come now, **Scylla**. I have had a great deal of respect for you, but how is an insult remotely like being physically wounded? Hyperbole and exaggeration are one thing, but this is fucking ridiculous. If someone calls me nasty names, that’s going to make me feel bad, but that is in no way comparable to getting shot or hit by shrapnel or what have you. It’s disingenuous to imply that they are even vaguely equivalent. [/QUOTE] People have lost their livelihoods, been jailed, executed, beaten, been impoverished and destroyed because of false accusations against them. The damage that can be done through false accusations can end with a result every bit as extreme as a bullet. The pen is mightier than the sword. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/286 "2007-04-27T03:31:05Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] People have lost their livelihoods, been jailed, executed, beaten, been impoverished and destroyed because of false accusations against them. The damage that can be done through false accusations can end with a result every bit as extreme as a bullet. The pen is mightier than the sword. [/QUOTE] You appear to be arguing from the general to the specific here, **Scylla**. Speaking as one who hopes that some day at least some of those consequences befall Mr. Chimpy (although my level of hopefulness that they will is so low as to make “wishes for” a more useful term), I’d like to ask you to list which consequences you believe already have befallen him. I do not insist that they come from the list of examples you gave. ETA: I don’t even insist that you support any assertion you wish to make that any accusation against him that led to a consequence actually be false. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/287 "2007-04-27T03:41:52Z")
I don’t really want to do that **kaylasdad**. I’d rather be general than specific. I have been specific in the past. Here. On this board. About the damages of specific accusations. It has gotten very very ugly. You may remember some of these. I’ll give Two: “Bush want to torture” “Bush want to eavesdrop and take away our freedoms” Both of these are seriously damaging accusations both personally and professionally. They have consequences for our troops abroad and they have consequences for his ability to be an effective President. I could give dozens more from the last several years, but that’s enough. I’d like to avoid incivility and namecalling, so I’m not going to off on a tangent on these. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/288 "2007-04-27T03:51:03Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] People have lost their livelihoods, been jailed, executed, beaten, been impoverished and destroyed because of false accusations against them. … [/QUOTE] How many of them got Purple Hearts? [QUOTE=Scylla] … The damage that can be done through false accusations can end with a result every bit as extreme as a bullet. The pen is mightier than the sword. [/QUOTE] Hmmm, I wonder if any soldiers in Iraq are praying tonight, “God please anything but a pen”? CMC fnord! Maybe you didn’t notice or just forgot, here, read some of these [stories](http://icasualties.org/oif/Wounded.aspx), when you stop feeling sick, come back and tell me “the pen is mightier than the sword”. I’d love to finish this with some vicious, personal attack, filled with Pit worthy vitriol, but your just not worthy of it anymore. I do know [24,645](http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_casualties.htm) soldiers who would like to have a word or two with you. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/289 "2007-04-27T03:56:34Z")
[QUOTE=Scylla] I’ll give Two: “Bush want to torture” “Bush want to eavesdrop and take away our freedoms” [/quote] I would say those are objective observations, not false accusations. It isn’t slander if it’s true. Any damage he sustains is from his own actions, not his getting _called_ on them. Or are you going to deny that he’s eavesdropped and tortured? Even if you do want to dispute the truth of those allegations (and I don’t know how you could, he’s admitted to the eavesdropping himself and made only the most semantic denials of torture), it still isn’t slander if the accusers (like me) sincerely believe it, and we do. Am I an enemy of the US if I say out loud that Bush has illegally eavesdropped on Americans and used torture on prisoners? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/290 "2007-04-27T04:09:56Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] It wasn’t an authentic citation, therfore it was a mock citation. [/quote] Defend your premise. Who authenticates citations? You? > [@](#): > > The issue is not what thomas has the right to do but what is in good taste for the President to _accept_. Accepting a fake citation and receiving an unearned medal in a mock ceremony was in poor taste. Not what happened. The citation wasn’t “fake” (whatever that means). The medal was neither earned nor unearned; it was a gift. And there was no mock ceremony. It was a private affair in the Oval Office. And I’d wager that you have defended private affairs in the Oval Office before. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/291 "2007-04-27T04:15:25Z")
[QUOTE=Liberal] Defend your premise. Who authenticates citations? You? [/quote] Is this a trick question? The US Military, who do you think? > [@](#): > > Not what happened. The citation wasn’t “fake” (whatever that means). It was fake as in “not authentic.” > [@](#): > > The medal was neither earned nor unearned; it was a gift. And there was no mock ceremony. It was a private affair in the Oval Office. The medal is not the issue. Accepting it as a gift is fine. Accepting in the context of a fake citation and ceremony is offensive. Not illegal, just offensive. > [@](#): > > And I’d wager that you have defended private affairs in the Oval Office before. 😉 Did I say he should be impeached for it? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/292 "2007-04-27T04:29:46Z")
**Dio** , please support “ceremony”. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/293 "2007-04-27T05:18:54Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] **Dio** , please support “ceremony”. [/QUOTE] I think the presentation in person along with the mock citation makes it mock ceremonial. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/294 "2007-04-27T06:12:46Z")
Then may I suggest that you give your chimpdetestin gland the night off, and treat his little play time with his friends with the mock derision that it merits? If he wants to sing into his hairbrush in the bathroom and pretend he’s Blake Lewis, you wouldn’t call for his public pillorying for disrespecting and cheapening the hard work of the _American Idol_ finalists, would you? And if he did the same thing in his jammies in the Lincoln bedroom for the benefit of some little friends he was having in for a sleepover, I’d hope the strongest reaction that would elicit would be a cringing eye-roll. Same thing. One of his little friends brought him a souvenir and some refrigerator art, and they played dress-up for twenty minutes. Then the friend went back home and turned in a paper about "_WhaT I did onMy Summer Va[del]kash[/del] **ca** shun."_ There really is more important stuff for us to get wound up over. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/295 "2007-04-27T06:19:24Z")
[QUOTE=kaylasdad99] … And if he did the same thing in his jammies in the Lincoln bedroom for the benefit of some little friends he was having in for a sleepover, I’d hope the strongest reaction that would elicit would be a cringing eye-roll… [/QUOTE] Well, yeah, I guess. Maybe. Depends. These little friends? They’re like, midgets? And they’re not doing anything…icky? ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/296 "2007-04-27T06:33:54Z")
Depends. Did anyone remember to bring the Crisco? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 6:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/297 "2007-04-27T06:36:27Z")
That’s right, you used all of yours making pie crusts, didn’t you? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 8:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/298 "2007-04-27T08:22:52Z")
> [@](#): > > **:Liberal** : And the private ceremony was conceived to honor the couple, not the president. So… 1. The couple gave the president a gift 2. The couple gave the president _a_ Purple Heart 3. The couple wrote and presented the president with a citation. 4. All of the above was done to honor the couple, not the president. In that case, I would like to honor all of _you_. Send gifts and citations through Paypal. Does anyone have presedence for presidents accepting military honors which they have not strictly earned? Maybe this is done frequently on a ceremonial basis. If it is, I think it should be curtailed. No, **Liberal** , it’s not just because it’s Bush. It’s because acceptance of an unearned military medal – especially when you are the person who _conveys_ the medal – is just too tacky for words. It’s gauche. Inviting the Thomases to the White House was just fine and even temporarily accepting the citation would have been okay perhaps. But the medal should never have been accepted. The president should have explained that the honor is Mr. Thomas’s and his descendents forever and _why_ that cannot be transferred. It wouldn’t hurt to talk about the American tradition of open debate. Give the couple a citation in writing affirming all of this. Then send them back home with the medal and the gratitude of the President of the United States. Everybody is happy. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/299 "2007-04-27T08:32:27Z")
> [@](#): > > **Moi** : All of the above was done… :smack: All of the above **were** done… ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [April 27, 2007, 1:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/300 "2007-04-27T13:14:26Z")
[QUOTE=The King of Soup] **Diogenes** has it just right: to murmur that you’re undeserving of an award is (and is meant to be taken as) persiflage, mere false modesty, and none too convincing, either, in the context of a ceremony which your _own office has arranged for you to accept the damn award_. I mean, it’s good to _say_ that he doesn’t deserve it, but since he _really doesn’t_, why didn’t he say so in a letter to Mr Thomas explaining why he can’t take it, instead of in front of photographers whom, like the Thomases themselves, he has summoned for the purpose of publicly receiving the thing and announcing Mr. Thomas’ odd rationale? Caesar refused the crown three times, but only because he knew it would be offered to him a fourth. Bush hasn’t even that much modesty. Blah. [/QUOTE] This is the kind of moronicism that makes this kind of thread vaguely amusing in a sort of PALATR way. Even when Bush says specifically that he doesn’t feel he deserves the award, that means that he does think it. If you can convince yourself of that, you can convince yourself of anything. Like I said, you asses Pit everything Bush does, and if he doesn’t do it, you pretend he did and Pit him anyways. > [@Revenant Threshold](#): > > I still don’t get the whole “To reject a compliment that goes too far would be an insult itself” thing. I’d say quite the opposite; to accept an accolade that you didn’t earn or deserve would be an insult to anyone who recieved it genuinely. The guy who received it genuinely, three times, doesn’t think so. Regards, Shodan [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443.md?page=16)