# I pit Bush for accepting the Purple Heart **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 24, 2007, 1:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443 "2007-04-24T13:00:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![tdn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/94ad74/32.png) [@tdn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tdn)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/41 "2007-04-24T14:36:13Z")
[QUOTE=The King of Soup] Okay, we’ll compromise. The admiring vet can come to D.C., meet with Dubya, and blow him for the photographers. [/QUOTE] This put a really unpleasant image in my head, until I realized that you merely forgot to type the word “away.” ---
**Author:** ![Zebra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/c0e974/32.png) [@Zebra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zebra)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/42 "2007-04-24T14:36:17Z")
The Vet wants Bush to have the Purple Heart for the ‘emotional scars’ because of the verbal attacks against him? What short of namby pamby Phil Donahue BS is that? ---
**Author:** ![Plynck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Plynck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Plynck)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/43 "2007-04-24T14:37:10Z")
[QUOTE=Shodan] I wonder what [John Kerry](http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2004/04/27/i_watched_kerry_throw_his_war_decorations/) thinks of someone making a political statement with military decorations. [/QUOTE] And I wonder if the Swift Boat Veterans will challenge the legitimacy of Bush receiving this medal. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/44 "2007-04-24T14:41:32Z")
\>\>slight hi-jack\<\< Does every American serviceman/woman who is wounded in action receive a PH? ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/45 "2007-04-24T14:45:17Z")
That still would leave the vet with two Purple Hearts- why not give one to Cheney? I have no problem with Bush inviting the guy to the White House, let him sleep in the Lincoln Bedroom, whatever. But isn’t it a breach of military etiquette to accept an award that you did not earn? Perhaps the most pressing issue is whether Bill Thomas has some undiagnosed neurological malady which would cause him to behave so irrationally. ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/46 "2007-04-24T14:45:20Z")
[QUOTE=Mr. Moto] …Now, if it were blown up into a big to-do, that would be a big political mistake. [/QUOTE] A _political_ mistake? Not a total shorting-out of the honesty circuits followed by fundamental failure of any sense of propriety and appreciation for those who earned the honor, accompanied by a complete collapse of the basic morality that keeps us from robbing graves of those trinkets we feel might confer status upon ourselves? I thought you were in favor of the idea of honoring heroism in combat. I’ll go this far in conciliation: your average garden-variety P.R. flack could easily be flummoxed by something like this coming out of the blue. But all it would take is two (okay, maybe as many as twenty) words from G-Dub (I’ve heard he’s quite taken with his gangsta name) to resolve this appropriately, with due respect to everyone. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/47 "2007-04-24T14:46:27Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] \>\>slight hi-jack\<\< Does every American serviceman/woman who is wounded in action receive a PH? [/QUOTE] Yes. That’s what the medal signifies – that the recipient has been wounded or killed by or during an action against an enemy. That’s part of what makes this insulting. It implies that anyone who criticizes Bush is an enemy of the US. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/48 "2007-04-24T14:48:03Z")
[QUOTE=BobLibDem] That still would leave the vet with two Purple Hearts- why not give one to Cheney? [/quote] Better to give one to the guy that Cheney shot. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/49 "2007-04-24T14:48:40Z")
I guess most of you know how this makes me feel :mad: :mad: :mad: In spite of what Gary Kumquat says, I would not hate Dubya for refusing or accepting the medal. I think a polite refusal would be the proper thing to do. _If_ the veteran is really insistent, then he should accept it and contact the veteran that the CIC accepts this honor with deep respect. However, if he prposes to make a “Mission Accomplished” show out of this, then Dubya is more of a snot than I ever imagined. ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/50 "2007-04-24T14:50:22Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Yes. That’s what the medal signifies – that the recipient has been wounded or killed by or during an action against an enemy. That’s part of what makes this insulting. It implies that anyone who criticizes Bush is an enemy of the US. [/QUOTE] Right I understand. One other question tho’. When a second award is given this usually takes the form of a bar to the first award.This bar is worn on the medal ribbon of the first award. Does this procedure not apply to the PH? ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/51 "2007-04-24T14:50:40Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] \>\>slight hi-jack\<\< Does every American serviceman/woman who is wounded in action receive a PH? [/QUOTE] [http://www.purpleheart.org/purple-heart-history-of-the-moph.html](http://www.purpleheart.org/purple-heart-history-of-the-moph.html) > [@](#): > > The Purple Heart is awarded to members of the armed forces of the U.S. who are wounded by an instrument of war in the hands of the enemy and posthumously to the next of kin in the name of those who are killed in action or die of wounds received in action. It is specifically a combat decoration. > **[Purple Heart](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purple_Heart)** > > The Purple Heart (PH) is a United States military decoration awarded in the name of the president to those wounded or killed while serving on or after 5 April 1917, with the U.S. military. With its forerunner, the Badge of Military Merit, which took the form of a heart made of purple cloth, the Purple Heart is the oldest military award still given to U.S. military members. The National Purple Heart Hall of Honor is located in New Windsor, New York. The original Purple Heart, designated as the B... > [@](#): > > Criteria > Paragraph 2-8, Army Regulation 600-8-22 (Military Awards) 25 February 1995 > > The Purple Heart was established by General George Washington at Newburgh, New York, on 7 August 1782, during the Revolutionary War. It was reestablished by the President of the United States per War Department General Orders 3, 1932 and is currently awarded pursuant to Executive Order 11016, 25 April 1962, Executive Order 12464, 23 February 1984 and Public Law 98-525, 19 October 1984. > > A. The Purple Heart is awarded in the name of the President of the United States to any member of an Armed Force or any civilian national of the United States who, while serving under competent authority in any capacity with one of the U.S. Armed Services after 5 April 1917, has been wounded or killed, or who has died or may hereafter die after being wounded- > > 1. In any action against an enemy of the United States. > > 2. In any action with an opposing armed force of a foreign country in which the Armed Forces of the United States are or have been engaged. > > 3. While serving with friendly foreign forces engaged in an armed conflict against an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party. > > 4. As a result of an act of any such enemy of opposing armed forces. > > 5. As the result of an act of any hostile foreign force > > 6. After 28 March 1973, as a result of an international terrorist attack against the United States or a foreign nation friendly to the United States, recognized as such an attack by the Secretary of the Army, or jointly by the Secretaries of the separate armed services concerned if persons from more than one service are wounded in the attack. > > 7. After 28 March 1973, as a result of military operations while serving outside the territory of the United States as part of a peacekeeping force. > B. While clearly an individual decoration, the Purple Heart differs from all other decorations in that an individual is not “recommended” for the decoration; rather he or she is entitled to it upon meeting specific criteria. > > 8. A Purple Heart is authorized for the first wound suffered under conditions indicated above, but for each subsequent award an Oak Leaf Cluster will be awarded to be worn on the medal or ribbon. Not more than one award will be made for more than one wound or injury received at the same instant or from the same missile, force, explosion, or agent. > > 9. A wound is defined as an injury to any part of the body from an outside force or agent sustained under one or more of the conditions listed above. A physical lesion is not required, however, the wound for which the award is made must have required treatment by a medical officer and records of medical treatment for wounds or injuries received in action must have been made a matter of official record. > > 10. When contemplating an award of this decoration, the key issue that commanders must take into consideration is the degree to which the enemy caused the injury. The fact that the proposed recipient was participating in direct or indirect combat operations is a necessary prerequisite, but is not sole justification for award. > > 11. Examples of enemy-related injuries which clearly justify award of the Purple Heart are as follows: > (a) Injury caused by enemy bullet, shrapnel, or other projectile created by enemy action. > (b) Injury caused by enemy placed mine or trap. > (c) Injury caused by enemy released chemical, biological, or nuclear agent. > (d) Injury caused by vehicle or aircraft accident resulting from enemy fire. > (e) Concussion injuries caused as a result of enemy generated explosions. > > 12. Examples of injuries or wounds which clearly do not qualify for award of the Purple Heart are as follows: > (a) Frostbite or trench foot injuries. > (b) Heat stroke. > (c) Food poisoning not caused by enemy agents. > (d) Chemical, biological, or nuclear agents not released by the enemy. > (e) Battle fatigue. > (f) Disease not directly caused by enemy agents. > (g) Accidents, to include explosive, aircraft, vehicular, and other accidental wounding not related to or caused by enemy action. > (h) Self-inflicted wounds, except when in the heat of battle, and not involving gross negligence. > (i) Post-traumatic stress disorders. > (j) Jump injuries not caused by enemy action. > > 13. It is not intended that such a strict interpretation of the requirement for the wound or injury to be caused by direct result of hostile action be taken that it would preclude the award being made to deserving personnel. Commanders must also take into consideration the circumstances surrounding an injury, even if it appears to meet the criteria. Note the following examples: > (a) In a case such as an individual injured while making a parachute landing from an aircraft that had been brought down by enemy fire; or, an individual injured as a result of a vehicle accident caused by enemy fire, the decision will be made in favor of the individual and the award will be made. > (b) Individuals wounded or killed as a result of “friendly fire” in the “heat of battle” will be awarded the Purple Heart as long as the “friendly” projectile or agent was released with the full intent of inflicting damage or destroying enemy troops or equipment. > (c) Individuals injured as a result of their own negligence; for example, driving or walking through an unauthorized area known to have been mined or placed off limits or searching for or picking up unexploded munitions as war souvenirs, will not be awarded the Purple Heart as they clearly were not injured as a result of enemy action, but rather by their own negligence. > C. A Purple Heart will be issued to the next of kin of each person entitled to a posthumous award. Issue will be made automatically by the Commanding General, PERSCOM, upon receiving a report of death indicating entitlement. > > D. Upon written application to Commander, ARPERCEN, ATTN: DARP-VSE-A, 9700 Page Boulevard. St. Louis, MO 63132-5200, award may be made to any member of the Army, who during World War I, was awarded a Meritorious Service Citation Certificate signed by the Commander in Chief, American Expeditionary Forces, or who was authorized to wear wound chevrons. Posthumous awards to personnel who were killed or died of wounds after 5 April 1917 will be made to the appropriate next of kin upon application to the Commanding General, PERSCOM. > > E. Any member of the Army who was awarded the Purple Heart for meritorious achievement or service, as opposed to wounds received in action, between 7 December 1941 and 22 September 1943, may apply for award of an appropriate decoration instead of the Purple Heart. > > F. For those who became Prisoners of War after 25 April 1962, the Purple Heart will be awarded to individuals wounded while prisoners of foreign forces, upon submission by the individual to the Department of the U.S. Army of an affidavit that is supported by a statement from a witness, if this is possible. Documentation and inquiries should be directed to Commander, PERSCOM, ATTN: TAPC-PDA, Alexandria, VA 22332-0471. > > G. Any member of the U.S. Army who believes that he or she is eligible for the Purple Heart, but through unusual circumstances no award was made, may submit an application through military channels, to Commander, PERSCOM, ATTN: TAPC PDA, Alexandria, VA 22332-0471. Application will include complete documentation, to include evidence of medical treatment, pertaining to the wound. > > H. As noted above, the Purple Heart may be awarded to civilian nationals of the United States. These individuals must be serving under competent authority with the Army when wounded. Serving under competent authority with the Army will include those eligible persons who are employees of the U.S. Government in a duty (pay or official travel) status when wounds are sustained. Examples of eligible individuals are as follows: > > 1. Any Army employee who is traveling outside of the continental limits of the United States on PCS or temporary duty (TDY) aboard a commercial aircraft and wounded by international terrorists in an attempted or actual hijacking incident. > 2. An Army employee in an Army office building performing his or her job who is wounded by an explosive device detonated by international terrorists. > 3. A civil or foreign service employee from a U.S. Government Agency or Department attached to an Army element performing intelligence, counter-terrorist, or other duties with the Army wounded by international terrorists. > 4. An Army employee wounded in an international terrorist incident in which a soldier or soldiers are also wounded. So, it would most emphatically be incorrect for President Bush to accept this Purple Heart. It would dishonor what it stands for and it is being awarded for mental anguished not suffered in combat. If it was given as a simple token of respect, it would be another issue entirely. JIm ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/52 "2007-04-24T14:51:45Z")
[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic] Better to give one to the guy that Cheney shot. [/QUOTE] Beat me to it. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/53 "2007-04-24T14:54:02Z")
I feel certain that any number of liberated Iraqis would be eager to help our President earn his Purple Heart the traditional way, if he is truly anxious to obtain one. ---
**Author:** ![OneCentStamp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/13edae/32.png) [@OneCentStamp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OneCentStamp)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/54 "2007-04-24T14:57:20Z")
For some reason, this is making me think of Brezhnev or Kim Jong Il, jackets festooned with medals they didn’t earn. Now, I’m not comparing Bush the leader to Brezhnev or Kim, and (hopefully) he never wears this medal, but I’m just thinking of the uproar in the Soviet Union when Brezhnev started appropriating all those honors for himself that had previously been reserved for war heroes. Side note: is it Godwinizing if you invoke Commies rather than Nazis? Is it Godwinski’s Law? ---
**Author:** ![chowder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@chowder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chowder)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/55 "2007-04-24T14:59:48Z")
My earlier question is answered in post #51. Am I to assume that the serviceman is going to give Bush his original award or one of the Oak Leaf Clusters ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/56 "2007-04-24T15:02:59Z")
[This links to a photo of LBJ listening to a tape recording of an officer describing a recent combat action.](http://z.about.com/d/history1900s/1/0/4/O/viet37.jpg) I’ve often wondered if GWB ever reacts in this way. Or, even if he does receive such reports, if he’s left alone to absorb them, or is always surrounded by his team and they are preoccupied with “hey - we can really _use_ this!” I think it’s just a big game of Dungeons & Dragons to this guy, so playing dress-up with flight suits and other people’s medals is all part of the fun. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Moto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9de0a6/32.png) [@Mr.Moto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Moto)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/57 "2007-04-24T15:10:38Z")
It is possible to have more than one copy of a medal. I can go and buy copies of every single one that I have earned from retailers that specialize in this service, and military exchange uniform supply stores also carry them, as well as services for mounting them for dress uniform wear, mess uniform wear, and the like. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/58 "2007-04-24T15:11:28Z")
[QUOTE=Slithy Tove] I think it’s just a big game of Dungeons & Dragons to this guy, so playing dress-up with flight suits and other people’s medals is all part of the fun. [/QUOTE] [Related thread](http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=190925&page=1&pp=40). This is pretty low on my list of problems with Bush. It’s in the “personal jerkitude” category for me, not the “hurting people” category. I can still support a politician who’s a creep, as long as he’s not causing people to suffer or die. Clinton could cheat on his wife all he wanted, and I’d still focus my criticism of him on his bombing of medicine factories; Bush could be a perfect gentleman about this manner, and I’d still criticize him for lying us into a war. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@The\_King\_of\_Soup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_King_of_Soup)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/59 "2007-04-24T15:12:27Z")
Oh, and **mhendo** , I like reading what you have to say (to the point of looking around for it sometimes), but this time I have to ask why you’re doing this. **Martin Hyde** may not _hate_ Bush, or at least not for the _right_ reasons, or at least not for _enough_ reasons, but there’s nothing at all inconsistent or insincere in this pitting. Do you feel that, as one can damn with faint praise, the OP is somehow bolstering C-plus Augustus\* with a too-weak criticism? I concede it’s possible, at least in a literary sense, but I don’t get that feel here. Merely by starting the thread, **Martin Hyde** has invited derision directed at GWB, and I can’t see that he’s stacked the deck against it. I also think that the Occupant-in-Chief has committed greater crimes, but I don’t want to drive away anyone who’s just started on the path to wisdom as I see it. **Diogenes** , I thought of that too – that the stunt was conceived to paint all critics of the president as foreign enemies, and I had a similar flash of anger. I couldn’t sustain it, though, because the idea of our fellow citizens being the enemy is, unfortunately, common throughout our population and our history, and nobody holds the moral high ground there. Also, I doubt that the gentleman at the source of all this is nearly so cynical and conniving, though he may well be that naive. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [April 24, 2007, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443/60 "2007-04-24T15:14:51Z")
[QUOTE=chowder] My earlier question is answered in post #51. Am I to assume that the serviceman is going to give Bush his original award or one of the Oak Leaf Clusters [/QUOTE] The story doesn’t seem to be explicit but I think the implication is that he was giving away the medal itself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-bush-for-accepting-the-purple-heart/401443.md?page=4)