# I pit Chicago for NOT salting! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 11, 2008, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659 "2008-12-11T02:05:29Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![dactylic\_hexameter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d26b3c/32.png) [@dactylic\_hexameter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dactylic_hexameter)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/21 "2008-12-11T20:28:13Z")
It just _feels_ faster when you realize a collision is imminent! ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/22 "2008-12-11T20:35:50Z")
> [@OhFace](#): > > But it is Chicago’s fault!!! :mad: No, it’s your fault. You chose to drive in icy conditions with inadequate driving resources for those conditions, such as chains or snow tires. YOUR fault. ---
**Author:** ![OhFace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecccb3/32.png) [@OhFace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OhFace)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/23 "2008-12-11T22:22:50Z")
> [@Finally](#): > > I feel your pain, **OhFace** , my normally 30 minute commute in the Chicago 'burbs yesterday took 1 hour and 40 minutes. No accidents to be seen, no reason, just everyone crawling along because of unsalted roads. :rolleyes: Thanks for the sympathy 😃 The roads are so horrible…and it’s only just begun. > [@tdn](#): > > Is there any way to make Chicago pay? > > Years ago, the potholes in Boston got so bad that drivers were snapping axles, due to a combination of extreme cold and extreme plowing. If you sent a repair bill to the city, they wouldn’t contest it at all, they’d just pay up. I know they cover pothole damage as well. I’m not sure what they’re going to do about the ice though. I know a lot of people are complaining and it’s only going to get worse as more accidents happen over winter. I’m going to attempt to file a claim, we’ll see what happens. > [@Knorf](#): > > No, it’s your fault. You chose to drive in icy conditions with inadequate driving resources for those conditions, such as chains or snow tires. > > YOUR fault. It wasn’t exactly a “choice” to drive in icy conditions. I’m not going to take off of work all winter to avoid the ice. I can’t take public transportation to work because my job requires me to drive around the city to clients’ houses. No one uses chains in the city, I’m not even sure if they are allowed. I’ve never looked in to snow tires, but I honestly don’t see how they could have helped me not slide down a street made of ice. The situation was out of my control, and it is the city’s responsibility to make sure the roads are safe. ---
**Author:** ![Knorf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/58956e/32.png) [@Knorf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knorf)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 10:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/24 "2008-12-11T22:26:27Z")
> [@OhFace](#): > > It wasn’t exactly a “choice” to drive in icy conditions. I’m not going to take off of work all winter to avoid the ice. I can’t take public transportation to work because my job requires me to drive around the city to clients’ houses. No one uses chains in the city, I’m not even sure if they are allowed. I’ve never looked in to snow tires, but I honestly don’t see how they could have helped me not slide down a street made of ice. The situation was out of my control, and it is the city’s responsibility to make sure the roads are safe. Excuses, none convincing. YOUR fault. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/25 "2008-12-11T22:27:22Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > No, it’s your fault. You chose to drive in icy conditions with inadequate driving resources for those conditions, such as chains or snow tires. > > YOUR fault. We’re not allowed to use chains on regular roads, and snow tires don’t help on ice. Plus, if the main roads are not icy and you turn onto a side street, you might expect that those streets had also been salted. By the time you realize, it’s too late. ---
**Author:** ![Flander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Flander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flander)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/26 "2008-12-11T22:29:12Z")
> [@Knorf](#): > > No, it’s your fault. You chose to drive in icy conditions with inadequate driving resources for those conditions, such as chains or snow tires. > > YOUR fault. :rolleyes: It’s my understanding Chicago previously salted these roads. The city’s refusal to salt the roads is a break from the norm that she is used to. She has a right to point the finger at the city for discontinuing a service which her tax dollars help provide that add safety to citizens. And saying that “she chose to drive” isn’t an educated deduction. Without knowing where she lives or the other options of transportation available to her, you have no idea if she even has a “choice”. FTR, driving in the snow is better than skipping work and possibly getting fired because you didn’t feel like driving. We could all simply blame you for not warning her in advance. ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/27 "2008-12-11T22:33:12Z")
> [@OhFace](#): > > It wasn’t exactly a “choice” to drive in icy conditions. I’m not going to take off of work all winter to avoid the ice. I can’t take public transportation to work because my job requires me to drive around the city to clients’ houses. No one uses chains in the city, I’m not even sure if they are allowed. I’ve never looked in to snow tires, but I honestly don’t see how they could have helped me not slide down a street made of ice. The situation was out of my control, and it is the city’s responsibility to make sure the roads are safe. Wait.. are you saying that you are pitting the city for an accident where you even didn’t take the most basic precaution of using winter tires? I have no sympathy. I’m glad they are required by law here during the winter period. ---
**Author:** ![gigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a587f6/32.png) [@gigi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gigi)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/28 "2008-12-11T22:38:58Z")
Like I said, your studs may help, but regular winter tires don’t do much on sheer ice. ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/29 "2008-12-11T22:40:51Z")
Bilandic II: Electric Boogaloo One can dream… ---
**Author:** ![Spoons](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spoons/32/3141_2.png) [@Spoons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spoons)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/30 "2008-12-11T22:43:09Z")
> [@Henrichek](#): > > Hm? Studded tires have never failed me on icy roads. Perhaps studded tires are not allowed in the jurisdiction in question. They do tend to hack up roads when the ice eventually melts. ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/31 "2008-12-11T22:43:36Z")
The price of road salt has skyrocketed recently, and some govts are buying half as much rather than paying thrice the price. [http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2008/nov/11/local/chi-road-salt-probe\_11nov11](http://archives.chicagotribune.com/2008/nov/11/local/chi-road-salt-probe_11nov11) > [@](#): > > (Nov. 11, 2008) …salt prices have as much as tripled this year, the Illinois attorney general said Monday. ---
**Author:** ![Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/angel_of_the_lord/32/2949_2.png) [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/32 "2008-12-11T22:54:12Z")
Snow chains are illegal in Illinois, Knorf. So are studded tires. ---
**Author:** ![Jenaroph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e8c25b/32.png) [@Jenaroph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jenaroph)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/33 "2008-12-11T22:57:39Z")
> [@Henrichek](#): > > Wait.. are you saying that you are pitting the city for an accident where you even didn’t take the most basic precaution of using winter tires? I have no sympathy. I’m glad they are required by law here during the winter period. [http://www.scc-chain.com/Traction%20Pages/Trac\_regulations.html](http://www.scc-chain.com/Traction%20Pages/Trac_regulations.html) > [@](#): > > As far as we know, the City of Chicago is the only place in North America where winter traction products of any kind are deemed illegal and may not be used. Soooo…Chicago makes “the most basic precaution of using winter tires” illegal, and then fails to salt the roads either. Do you have sympathy now? ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/34 "2008-12-11T23:00:00Z")
Winter traction products =! winter tires. ---
**Author:** ![SeaDragonTattoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/df705f/32.png) [@SeaDragonTattoo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaDragonTattoo)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/35 "2008-12-11T23:02:33Z")
> [@OhFace](#): > > My insurance is going to go up because I rear-ended someone. I feel your pain with the destruction of your car. About 15 years ago I had a rear-ending incident that I’m still not convinced was really all my fault, either. My car was out of commission for a week. But if you are required to use your car for work and you were on business when the accident happened, it’s your employer’s insurance that should be paying. You really need to look into that. I will say, too, that I had no insurance premium problems after my accident due to my previous good record. I hope your employer pays mileage at the very least. Most that require driving should be providing the car, anyway, or paying enough mileage as an expense to you to cover your gas, insurance and wear and tear on the car. If they’re not, they’re really screwing you. And as to what **Flander** said, the city’s refusal to salt the roads may be a break in the norm, however, it was also headline news and the subject of a press conference by the mayor. For anyone not to expect slippery roads they would have had to have their head in a hole for the last three weeks. I’m not sure why roads are unsanded, however. Sand does less damage, anyway, and has proven just as effective when applied liberally enough. As for me, I stopped owning a car about 8 years ago and haven’t looked back. If work needs me to go somewhere, I use the company vehicle. ---
**Author:** ![Flander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8c91f0/32.png) [@Flander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Flander)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/36 "2008-12-11T23:13:52Z")
So Chicago makes winter traction illegal, and saves money by not buying salt to make the streets safe. They make a press conference to inform everyone so it won’t be the city’s fault. Now, with all that money they saved they can make a giant silver egg with a skating rink in front of it to tell the rest of the world how great Chicago is! ---
**Author:** ![Henrichek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/5daacb/32.png) [@Henrichek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Henrichek)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/37 "2008-12-11T23:17:02Z")
> [@Jenaroph](#): > > Soooo…Chicago makes “the most basic precaution of using winter tires” illegal, and then fails to salt the roads either. Do you have sympathy now? Ok, that definitely changes things. A little piece of ignorance fought on my part. It didn’t help me that our law is the complete opposite, demanding winter tires. Sorry for not looking up the local legislation, I had just assumed it wouldn’t be forbidden at least. Sounds like some pretty stupid decisions by the city to not allow people to use the tools necessary for safe road usage. Keep in mind that salting the roads only helps to an extent. It shifts the freezing point of the water, but a few degrees lower and you’ll have ice anyway. It seems to also cause extra wear on the roadway due to making the roads wetter and refreezing during the night, causing much faster erosion of the road surface as the water slips into small cracks. A salted road also increases the perceived safety causing drivers to speed up, generally causing more violent accidents, since even salted roads can be treacherous. The salt also slips into streams and lakes, gets into groundwater, and generally fouls up the environment. You’re right that I shouldn’t blame the OP too much in this instance, but I would criticize the law forbidding winter tires rather than the lack of salt. ---
**Author:** ![sugar\_and\_spice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@sugar\_and\_spice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugar_and_spice)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/38 "2008-12-11T23:33:51Z")
Well in Daley’s defense the city does hand out these [winter traction products](http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=parking+boot) quite liberally. ---
**Author:** ![OhFace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecccb3/32.png) [@OhFace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OhFace)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/39 "2008-12-11T23:35:58Z")
I get reimbursed for gas, 51 cents a mile, but I was on my way home from work when the accident happened. ☹ I of coarse knew of the lack of salt on side streets, but it still sucks and the situation was out of my control. It could have been worse, a person could have been hit by a sliding car. People were falling, car pieces were all over the intersection from all of the collisions of the day. I still stand by my Pit of Chicago. ---
**Author:** ![OhFace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ecccb3/32.png) [@OhFace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OhFace)\ **Post date:** [December 11, 2008, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659/40 "2008-12-11T23:38:58Z")
> [@Flander](#): > > So Chicago makes winter traction illegal, and saves money by not buying salt to make the streets safe. They make a press conference to inform everyone so it won’t be the city’s fault. Now, with all that money they saved they can make a giant silver egg with a skating rink in front of it to tell the rest of the world how great Chicago is! I agree! And I heard on the radio the other day that although they are cutting back in their salt expenses they still pay to maintain the stupid bean by having it “buffed” or whatever to keep it shiny. Oh and don’t forget the millions to revamp the Buckingham Fountain. But salt, that’s a luxury Chicago can’t afford. :mad: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-chicago-for-not-salting/476659.md?page=3)