# I pit Constantine, and the casting therof **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 3, 2005, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111 "2005-02-03T04:07:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/21 "2005-02-03T15:21:45Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > I know you’re all smart enough to realize that Hollywood is in it to make money. But you seem oblivious to the fact that they will do that however they want. They buy the rights. Now, they take want they want from the story, add to it, subtract from it, change the ages, locations, titles, names, HAIR COLORS to what they think is going to best suit them. > > So, I guess what I don’t get is this feeling of indignation from all of you, like you’re taking it personally that the characters you loved are being changed. > > They aren’t making the movie for you. You’re not enough people. > > Believe me, I’d rather see some quirky, tricky, grizzled British guy in a starring role, too, rather than some swashbuckling dragonslaying hunk but I’m not righteous enough to pit 'em for doing so. Hey, I didn’t write the pit thread, I’m just explaining my mild annoyance now that it’s here. I could whine, “I’m not gonna see this film!” but hell, I didn’t go to the theater all last year (that I recall), so like that’ll matter. Not gonna hold any picket signs. Peter Jackson did a pretty kickass job at adapting a gigantic work to a mere several hours of film, with enough sticking to the books to satisfy all but the most rabid Tolkien fans. I’m simply saying I wish whoever was involved with Constantine had either gone that route, or just stolen the plot concept and called it something else. I would have preferred seeing a ripoff and thinking “heh, decent film, but obvious Hellblazer Hollywoodization” (Hellblazer is the comic’s title) than hoping for a decent translation to film and going “wtf did they do? That’s not what I read Hellblazer for.” I have a vague mental list of certain works that I don’t think should be adapted to film, and Peter Jackson blew away my expectations on LotR. I haven’t read Hellblazer or other comic books for several years, but I have a certain fondness for the stories I read, and a hope that any adaptations are faithful. ---
**Author:** ![Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6f9a4e/32.png) [@Hey\_It\_s\_That\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hey_It_s_That_Guy)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/22 "2005-02-03T15:29:09Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > You comic fans are really in a sheltered world. > > You act like Hollywood owes you something. Like they need to create the characters the way you see them, the way they drew them, the way you want them to be. > > I know you’re all smart enough to realize that Hollywood is in it to make money. But you seem oblivious to the fact that they will do that however they want. They buy the rights. Now, they take want they want from the story, add to it, subtract from it, change the ages, locations, titles, names, HAIR COLORS to what they think is going to best suit them. > > So, I guess what I don’t get is this feeling of indignation from all of you, like you’re taking it personally that the characters you loved are being changed. > > They aren’t making the movie for you. You’re not enough people. > > Believe me, I’d rather see some quirky, tricky, grizzled British guy in a starring role, too, rather than some swashbuckling dragonslaying hunk but I’m not righteous enough to pit 'em for doing so. I really hope I haven’t come across like those raving, drooling fanboys who whined incessantly over the casting of Hugh Jackman as Wolverine and Tobey Maguire as Spider-Man. Those ended up being well-thought out casting decisions, and the actors exceeded all expectations. I think the people complaining here are annoyed that Keanu is just 1. A poor choice for this particular role. 2. Not a great actor to begin with, despite his popularity. It is just a little frustrating to see the unnecessary changes made to familiar properties, just because some Hollywood people think they’re smarter and cooler than comic book creators. When characters are changed too much from what makes them cool and special (take Catwoman as a perfect example), the end result is a crappy movie with unrecognizable characters, and then people just roll their eyes and say “Well it was based on a comic book, no wonder it sucked!” Comics may not be Shakespeare, but there are some truly inspired comic writers out there, including many of those who have written John Constantine (Alan Moore, Jamie Delano, Garth Ennis, Warren Ellis, and Mike Carey, just to name a few). If studios go to the trouble of buying up the rights to adapt those existing works, it is a shame they don’t have enough faith in the source material to do “straight” adaptations, rather than smear their handprints all over a story that worked fine already. If you were a fan of a novel that was made into a movie, only the movie had a bunch of ridiculous changes to it, you’d be annoyed too. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/23 "2005-02-03T15:47:49Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > FWIW, sometimes you comics fans might think your world is a little bigger than it really is. > > You’re upset at the casting because the main character is not BLOND? What a travesty! How did they EVER LET THIS MOVIE GET MADE? He’s blond in the comic, but in the movie he has (GASP! GASP!) DARK HAIR?? What have they done? I couldn’t give a flying fuck what color his hair is. What I do care about is that this charater Reeves plays is NOT John Constantine. Read my post referenced above for a more complete discussion of the fundimental differences between the charater Reeves plays and the character established by nearly twenty years of stories about John Constantine. It would be like if a Bond movie were made, and Bond was American, geeky, clumsy, and incompetent. I would be interested in this movie, if it were not supposed to be the big screen adaptation of a really good comic. Oh, and if the plot were not an amalgamated piece of crap. ---
**Author:** ![catsix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e19b73/32.png) [@catsix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/catsix)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 3:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/24 "2005-02-03T15:56:09Z")
James Marsters would’ve been an excellent choice for the movie. Shit, that would’ve made me pay full price to see it in the evening. Now, I’ll probably wait until it’s on Netflix. ---
**Author:** ![Trunk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/87869e/32.png) [@Trunk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trunk)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 4:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/25 "2005-02-03T16:19:20Z")
> [@Maus Magill](#): > > I couldn’t give a flying fuck what color his hair is. What I do care about is that this charater Reeves plays is NOT John Constantine. YEAH, he IS John Constantine because that’s his name in the movie. I don’t care if you think comic books have provenance over movies. I had no idea this was a comic and I’m going to see a movie with a guy named Constantine in it who sees demons and angels. If it’s good, if it’s bad, I’ll decide after seeing it, and – sorry, if this bugs you – how closely it reflects a comic book will have no bearing whatsoever on my opinion. Now, if the plot is an amalgamated piece of crap, that’s a different story. I like the premise though. ---
**Author:** ![ArrMatey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/arrmatey/32/3522_2.png) [@ArrMatey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ArrMatey)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/26 "2005-02-03T16:45:26Z")
> [@Big Bad Voodoo Lou](#): > > Constantine […] has seen horrible things and survived them all due to his wits. He is a mystic and a con man who has outsmarted angels, demons, and the devil himself. . This. This is the problem. Everyone I know that likes Constantine likes him because of his wits. He never dukes it out with demons, shotgun or no. He outsmarts them and bluffs them. (My favorite moment in all of comic-book-dom was in the original _Books of Magic_ when he pretty much bluffed the entire evil supernatural community by simply saying, “You all know who I am, you all know what I can do.”) This Constantine is going to be a shoot-first, wire-fu later piece of crap. No wits, no cleverness. It’s not the hair, it’s the brain below it that people are objecting to. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/27 "2005-02-03T16:55:03Z")
> [@ArrMatey!](#): > > This. This is the problem. Everyone I know that likes Constantine likes him because of his wits. He never dukes it out with demons, shotgun or no. He outsmarts them and bluffs them. (My favorite moment in all of comic-book-dom was in the original _Books of Magic_ when he pretty much bluffed the entire evil supernatural community by simply saying, “You all know who I am, you all know what I can do.”) This Constantine is going to be a shoot-first, wire-fu later piece of crap. No wits, no cleverness. It’s not the hair, it’s the brain below it that people are objecting to. As was said before, JC does not kick ass and take names. JC gets Bloke A to kick Bloke B’s ass and then gets Bloke C to take Bloke A’s and B’s names. Bloke A, B, and C then all die under mysterious circumstances. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/28 "2005-02-03T17:00:12Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > Now, if the plot is an amalgamated piece of crap, that’s a different story. I like the premise though. It is, unfortunately. It takes one plot which may have been written for a totally different character or movie, involving cops, angels, and demons (sorta like The Prophecy, a film I loved, BTW), and mixes it in (rather poorly) with a bad retelling of the Dangerous Habits storyline. It’s a shame, because I would have like to have seen the first movie. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/29 "2005-02-03T17:07:32Z")
> [@Maus Magill](#): > > It is, unfortunately. It takes one plot which may have been written for a totally different character or movie, involving cops, angels, and demons (sorta like The Prophecy, a film I loved, BTW), and mixes it in (rather poorly) with a bad retelling of the Dangerous Habits storyline. It’s a shame, because I would have like to have seen the first movie. Is that the one were he gets cancer? ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/30 "2005-02-03T17:39:49Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Is that the one were he gets cancer? Yeah. Garth Ennis handled it much better. ---
**Author:** ![holmes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e95f7d/32.png) [@holmes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/holmes)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/31 "2005-02-03T17:49:11Z")
> [@Maus Magill](#): > > Yeah. Garth Ennis handled it much better. Yeah, but I don’t think it would translate very well to the screen. Sometimes the written word, just doesn’t translate. I suppose it could be done, but I’m not so sure it could be done _well_. So much of the dialogue was introspective, you know; I wonder if butchering the story-telling may be unavoidable, due to the medium change. Would an 1 or so of hearing Constantine’s voice-over, while he fomulated his plan, be interesting to anyone who hadn’t already read the story? ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/32 "2005-02-03T17:49:58Z")
W/o having seen the preview trailer, my gut feeling is that it’s going to be a current-day version of _Van Helsing_. Expect to see lots of CGI monsters, no plot, and plenty of explosions. Hollywood knows that subtle doesn’t sell. This movie would suck even if Keanu weren’t starring in it. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/33 "2005-02-03T18:08:22Z")
> [@holmes](#): > > Yeah, but I don’t think it would translate very well to the screen. Sometimes the written word, just doesn’t translate. I suppose it could be done, but I’m not so sure it could be done _well_. > > So much of the dialogue was introspective, you know; I wonder if butchering the story-telling may be unavoidable, due to the medium change. Would an 1 or so of hearing Constantine’s voice-over, while he fomulated his plan, be interesting to anyone who hadn’t already read the story? We’re getting into spoilerish territory here, and **Trunk** has already indicated he wants to see it. I don’t want to screw it up for him. When I say the Dangerous Habits storyline is mixed in poorly, I mean _poorly_. There’s a scene at the beginning where JC is diagnosed with cancer. No mention at all about it until the end when the Devil cures him. It was like the writers said, “Oh, wait, people liked the whole cancer/devil thing. Let’s put some of that in there. They had it in the comic book, didn’t they?” It serves no rhyme or reason other than to clumsily tie the movie with the comic. ---
**Author:** ![wevets](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9a140/32.png) [@wevets](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wevets)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/34 "2005-02-03T19:25:17Z")
I thought about starting a thread like this too. There’s no way Keanu can portray a character like Constantine and it has nothing to do with his hair or accent (lack thereof). He simply isn’t a competent enough actor to produce the wit, subtlety, and cunning of this character. We shouldn’t pit this because it doesn’t reflect the comic book? Think about it… it’s one thing if Hollywood creates its own story and characters and makes a movie that sucks. It’s completely another when Hollywood takes a _successful_ story and characters from another medium and turns it into a piece of shit. If you think we can’t pit the latter, your expectations of the ability of other people to do their jobs are simply too low. We’re consumers, we have a right to complain about shitty product. Not just with our dollars either; if you don’t want to hear the complaints, don’t come in and read the thread! ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/35 "2005-02-03T19:51:08Z")
“I can’t believe they’re ruining this movie I haven’t seen based on a comic I haven’t read by casting an actor that I don’t like. I’M SO FUCKING ANGRY!” :rolleyes: Hellblazer sucked until Ennis picked it up anyway. It’s not like they’re ruining Watchmen (yet.) ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/36 "2005-02-03T20:00:03Z")
By the way, a buddy of mine does contract work all over the Southeast, and I’ve tracked down several different comic shops all over Alabama for him on many different occasions. If you can’t find one, you’re not looking. [Link](http://csls.diamondcomics.com/). ---
**Author:** ![VampyChick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/5daacb/32.png) [@VampyChick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VampyChick)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/37 "2005-02-03T20:17:17Z")
> [@Cisco](#): > > “I can’t believe they’re ruining this movie I haven’t seen based on a comic I haven’t read by casting an actor that I don’t like. I’M SO FUCKING ANGRY!” > > :rolleyes: > > Hellblazer sucked until Ennis picked it up anyway. It’s not like they’re ruining Watchmen (yet.) You’re right. I’m a whiner who doesn’t have a pass to whine. I also have about three different kinds of flu medicine in my system right now, which makes me even whinier. But I \*did \*read the novelization. 🙂 And I checked your link. \*That \*explains it. That whole part of town mystifies me. And thanks, now I know where to go! ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/38 "2005-02-03T20:51:10Z")
> [@Ferret Herder](#): > > Constantine isn’t an action hero, either. He’s sneaky and brilliant. He doesn’t even drive (no chase scenes with him behind the wheel!) so he gets his friends to drive for him - and do other favors for him as well, some of which don’t end up being as benign. He’s well into middle age and has been through unimaginable horrors that show in the lines on his face. He has screaming nightmares about it all, every night. > > If fresh-faced Keanu can manage to convince me that he’s not an action hero, that he’s been to hell and back (literally), that he’s seen those he loved and cared for have unspeakable things done to them, then I’ll be really fucking impressed. > > If not, then why the fuck did they name it after John Constantine, because now I’m having a tough time seeing a resemblance. Steal the plot like half the Hollywood writers do, file the numbers off it, turn it into “guy growing up in a rough life ends up fighting the forces of hell,” and name it **something else**. Because I don’t see the point, frankly. FTR Keanu is going to be turning 41 this year (no i didn’t know this I looked it up). I wouldn’t exactly call him freash-faced. He is looking his age. I never read the comic so I’ll withhold judgement. ---
**Author:** ![Mollie\_Magill](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mollie_magill/32/20882_2.png) [@Mollie\_Magill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mollie_Magill)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/39 "2005-02-03T21:13:13Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > FTR Keanu is going to be turning 41 this year (no i didn’t know this I looked it up). I wouldn’t exactly call him freash-faced. He is looking his age. I never read the comic so I’ll withhold judgement. Unfortunately, I will always remember him as Ted “Theodor” Logan ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 3, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111/40 "2005-02-03T22:04:20Z")
> [@Trunk](#): > > You comic fans are really in a sheltered world. > > You act like Hollywood owes you something. Like they need to create the characters the way you see them, the way they drew them, the way you want them to be. Well, actually, they do owe me something. They owe me $8.50 worth of good movie, because that’s what I’ve paid for. > [@](#): > > I know you’re all smart enough to realize that Hollywood is in it to make money. But you seem oblivious to the fact that they will do that however they want. They buy the rights. Now, they take want they want from the story, add to it, subtract from it, change the ages, locations, titles, names, HAIR COLORS to what they think is going to best suit them. And what you’re missing is that, if they’re going to go to the trouble of buying the rights to a comic book, why don’t they actually base the movie they make on that comic book? Why spend that money only to make a movie that is going to alienate the few people who want to see the movie becuase of the comic book? Why not save that money, make exactly the same movie, and call it something different? People who are indifferent to the comic won’t care one way or the other, and people who like the comic won’t be instantly turned against the picture because it deviates from the source material so substantially. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-constantine-and-the-casting-therof/288111.md?page=3)