# I pit crying babies in public places **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 25, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368 "2010-01-25T15:52:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/241 "2010-01-26T22:13:30Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > As do I. Note I took no issue with those posts - because I agreed with them, basically. > > I only took issue with those posts I _disagreed_ with, which I found unreasonable - mainly those whose opinions were that kids should not be out in public _at all_, until they are perfectly able to behave. And there have been some. > > It does not help that some here seemingly cannot grasp that, for the most part, we are not disagreeing on the essentials - see the **Shot from Guns** idiocy as an example. I’ve been reading this entire thread, including the “ **Shot From Guns** idiocy,” and I don’t see people saying children should be banned from public until they reach an age that is acceptable to adults. I did see, from several people, repeatedly, that people should keep small their small children out of grown up restaurants until they learn how to behave. It is okay to bring children to age-appropriate restaurants when they are very small, and teach them how to behave in public, but once the kid starts being a loudmouthed pain in the ass, it doesn’t matter if they’re at the Olive Garden, the kid needs to be quieted down, or removed from the dining area if unwilling or unable to do so. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/242 "2010-01-26T22:18:22Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > In none of the scenarios you have described does it sound like you have ever been in a position where it was necessary to make a that decision either. Well you understood at least some of the words I spoke. My point is that not having been in that position makes you sheltered. How many times have you had to murder a baby in order to save your own life? ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/243 "2010-01-26T22:20:45Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > It all boils down to the parents doing their jobs as parents. The parents job is to sit and finish their meal, everybody else be damned. And anyway, what the fuck is wrong with the sound of a baby crying? Why do you hate babies? They are our future and you want them to leave because they are expressing themselves? Thats just fucking evil, why are you evil? Personally, I think that before people are allowed to go to restaurants, they should spend a few weeks listening to the sound of little babies crying, like from a mix tape or something, just to grow an appreciation for the sound, the sweet sweet sound. **Zealot** , I bet you have tapes of babies crying, back me up here… ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/244 "2010-01-26T22:27:02Z")
> [@bucketybuck](#): > > The parents job is to sit and finish their meal, everybody else be damned. > > And anyway, what the fuck is wrong with the sound of a baby crying? Why do you hate babies? They are our future and you want them to leave because they are expressing themselves? Thats just fucking evil, why are you evil? > > Personally, I think that before people are allowed to go to restaurants, they should spend a few weeks listening to the sound of little babies crying, like from a mix tape or something, just to grow an appreciation for the sound, the sweet sweet sound. > > **Zealot** , I bet you have tapes of babies crying, back me up here… Heh, the first part of teaching a child about appropriate expression is to remove a crying baby from the situation. A baby’s crying is self-expression, but they are still in survival mode. Letting them cry isn’t honoring their self-expression. They are trying to express discomfort, and they want you to solve their problem for them. At a certain age it’s the parental responsibility to do what they can to solve the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 11:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/245 "2010-01-26T23:04:50Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > \ > > How many times have you had to murder a baby in order to save your own life? Are you counting convictions or just indictments? ---
**Author:** ![bucketybuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/898d66/32.png) [@bucketybuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bucketybuck)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/246 "2010-01-26T23:35:27Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Heh, the first part of teaching a child about appropriate expression is to remove a crying baby from the situation. A baby’s crying is self-expression, but they are still in survival mode. Letting them cry isn’t honoring their self-expression. They are trying to express discomfort, and they want you to solve their problem for them. At a certain age it’s the parental responsibility to do what they can to solve the problem. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/247 "2010-01-26T23:45:44Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Should have kept reading. The whole post was facetious, as the thread went on to point out and be amused by. > > My position is perfectly reasonable. The only **un** reasonable position is your made-out-of-whole-cloth strawman misapprehension of what I’ve said. > > 1.) When children misbehave in public in such a way to cause a disturbance, their parents should (a) make attempts to quiet them and/or (b) remove them. > > 2.) Parents should not bring their children into public areas where they might cause a disturbance until they have reasonable cause to believe that their child is capable of behaving. What constitutes “reasonable cause” will obviously be left to the parent to decide. The main point is, if your kid can’t behave when they’re eating dinner at home, they shouldn’t be brought to a restaurant. If your child is large enough to get up and run around on their own, but not yet mature enough to understand that a restaurant is not a place to play tag (or to listen when you tell them to get back in their seat), then you shouldn’t be bringing them out yet, because the night will indubitably end badly. > > 3.) However, if your child is at least theoretically capable of not being a nuisance to you and any other patrons of the restaurant, theater, etc., you are perfectly welcome to bring them out with you, provided you keep a firm grasp on #1. > > If you’re going to contend that I’m being unreasonable here, I might as well criticize your hatred of Jews, since there’s exactly as much evidence. So, why are you such a Nazi? If you love Hitler so much, why don’t you marry him? Huh? Huh? Your point #2 is where we disagree - it would, in effect, eliminate ever bringing babies to a restaurant - or indeed any “public areas”-- _at all_. I guess family restaurants should just get rid of high chairs, huh? The fact that you evidently see this as “reasonable” is, well, not surprising. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/248 "2010-01-26T23:47:42Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > I’ve been reading this entire thread, including the “ **Shot From Guns** idiocy,” and I don’t see people saying children should be banned from public until they reach an age that is acceptable to adults. I did see, from several people, repeatedly, that people should keep small their small children out of grown up restaurants until they learn how to behave. It is okay to bring children to age-appropriate restaurants when they are very small, and teach them how to behave in public, but once the kid starts being a loudmouthed pain in the ass, it doesn’t matter if they’re at the Olive Garden, the kid needs to be quieted down, or removed from the dining area if unwilling or unable to do so. See “point #2” in the post, ironically enough, immediately above yours. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2010, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/249 "2010-01-26T23:54:41Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > How many times have you had to murder a baby in order to save your own life? I don’t actually want to know the answer to that. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/250 "2010-01-27T00:28:02Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > But even if we were eating at TGIFriday’s, you should still stop your kid from being an asshole to everyone else in the room. Take it outside. I think I said I’d do that twice, didn’t I? I specifically mentioned taking her outside if she needed it. However, I state again, I wouldn’t do it to make you happy, I’d do it because she needs it. Call me an inconsiderate asshole if you want, but I don’t give two shits about how YOU feel, but how my kid feels. Hell, why stop at forcing me to remove my child from a restaurant so you can feel comfortable? Why not ask me to pay for your whole meal, too? And after that maybe you’ll want me to carry you back to your house on my back? And then wash your car? Re-sod your lawn? Shit, maybe you even want me to blow you, too! :rolleyes::rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/251 "2010-01-27T01:46:05Z")
You sound like a peach of a parent. I’m sure your children will grow up into lovely citizens who don’t give two shits about anyone else in their world. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/252 "2010-01-27T02:13:31Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > You sound like a peach of a parent. I’m sure your children will grow up into lovely citizens who don’t give two shits about anyone else in their world. Me and mine come first before anyone else, end of story. I’m not going to apologize for that or let anyone make me feel bad about it. If the choice was between saving my kid from a burning building or saving a total stranger from the same burning building who do you think I’d pick? Who would you pick? If I was stranded with you and my kid on a deserted island and I was in charge, my kid would get his food first, I’d get mine, and you’d get whatever (if any) was left. And if I had to steal yours so he could survive I’d do it in a second. I think we’re all in agreement here that people who let their kids run wild in restaurants are annoying assholes. I think I’ve already said at least a few times I wouldn’t let my kids do that. If my kid was running around like an idiot bothering other people I’d put a stop to it and apologize. If he was crying and wouldn’t stop despite my best efforts, anyone who felt inconvenienced enough to comment outloud would be cordially invited to kiss my ass. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 2:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/253 "2010-01-27T02:46:04Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well you understood at least some of the words I spoke. > > My point is that not having been in that position makes you sheltered. > > How many times have you had to murder a baby in order to save your own life? I was lucky I never had to kill a baby (I don’t consider it murder when it’s done to save your own life) when I was in Yugoslavia. The parents were able to keep the children quiet when they had to be quiet. But we (meaning the various groups of people I was among during those years) talked about it and agreed we would do what had to be done, if and when it had to be done. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/254 "2010-01-27T02:48:27Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > I think I said I’d do that twice, didn’t I? I specifically mentioned taking her outside if she needed it. However, I state again, I wouldn’t do it to make you happy, I’d do it because she needs it. The coolest thing about the “Cult of the Child” is that there’s never a shortage of Kool-Aid. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/255 "2010-01-27T02:52:02Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > Call me an inconsiderate asshole if you want, but I don’t give two shits about how YOU feel, but how my kid feels. And this Ladies and Gentlemen is the attitude that causes the childfree to despise the child-burdened. If you’re not going to show basic social courtesy to others, don’t expect them to be considerate of your child. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/256 "2010-01-27T03:13:46Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > And this Ladies and Gentlemen is the attitude that causes the childfree to despise the child-burdened. If you’re not going to show basic social courtesy to others, don’t expect them to be considerate of your child. :::SHRUG::: Meh. Think what you want. My kid is more important to me than you are. Deal with it. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/257 "2010-01-27T03:14:35Z")
The funny thing about an attitude like that towards raising your children is that it is likely to produce unhappy, unable to be satisfied people. Concern for other people in the world with you is part of a healthy human psyche. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 3:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/258 "2010-01-27T03:17:46Z")
> [@villa](#): > > This is where I lose sympathy for you. You don’t have the right, or the knowledge of that child, to determine how that child should be effectively disciplined by his parents. Spanking works when done properly. I realize that not everyone agrees with that, so let me rephrase it: take the kid out to the car for appropriate punishment. Better? ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/259 "2010-01-27T03:18:51Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > The funny thing about an attitude like that towards raising your children is that it is likely to produce unhappy, unable to be satisfied people. Concern for other people in the world with you is part of a healthy human psyche. My family being more important than anyone else and having concern/compassion for others are not mutually exclusive. ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/260 "2010-01-27T03:21:31Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > And this Ladies and Gentlemen is the attitude that causes the childfree to despise the child-burdened. If you’re not going to show basic social courtesy to others, don’t expect them to be considerate of your child. And thank you very much for making two stupid moves here. One, the assumption that everyone with children thinks like this, and therefore deserves your hatred. And two, the idiotic use of the phrase child-burdened. It’s offensive and incorrect. And if no one ever has children, how in the world are you going to have that genetic connection you prize so much/ [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368.md?page=14)