# I pit crying babies in public places **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 25, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368 "2010-01-25T15:52:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/261 "2010-01-27T03:25:45Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > I have no objection to children; I teach children on a daily basis, and they really are our hope for the future. > [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Not if I finish this fucking Immortality Serum, they’re not. ROTFLMAO! I don’t care who you are, that’s funny right there! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/262 "2010-01-27T03:48:55Z")
> [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > And this Ladies and Gentlemen is the attitude that causes the childfree to despise the child-burdened. I’m childfree, and no. I don’t despise those with children; I despise you. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/263 "2010-01-27T03:51:21Z")
> [@tacoloco](#): > > My family being more important than anyone else and having concern/compassion for others are not mutually exclusive. Well, they _shouldn’t_ be. ---
**Author:** ![Wile\_E](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c37758/32.png) [@Wile\_E](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wile_E)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/264 "2010-01-27T04:06:49Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > Me and mine come first before anyone else, end of story. I’m not going to apologize for that or let anyone make me feel bad about it. If the choice was between saving my kid from a burning building or saving a total stranger from the same burning building who do you think I’d pick? Who would you pick? If I was stranded with you and my kid on a deserted island and I was in charge, my kid would get his food first, I’d get mine, and you’d get whatever (if any) was left. And if I had to steal yours so he could survive I’d do it in a second. > … > . I got lost somewhere around page 4 and I’m not sure who’s for what anymore but was the restaurant in the OP on fire? I’m so confused now. ---
**Author:** ![Hung\_Mung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/a88e4f/32.png) [@Hung\_Mung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hung_Mung)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/265 "2010-01-27T04:45:39Z")
> [@Wile\_E](#): > > I got lost somewhere around page 4 and I’m not sure who’s for what anymore but was the restaurant in the OP on fire? I’m so confused now. No, but that would be awesome. This derailed train of a thread, however, definitely is. ---
**Author:** ![curlcoat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ea5d25/32.png) [@curlcoat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/curlcoat)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/266 "2010-01-27T05:22:46Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > :::SHRUG::: Meh. Think what you want. My kid is more important to me than you are. Deal with it. And my comfort is more important to me than your kid. Your kids starts screaming in a restaurant and bothering me, you’ll be dealing with it. However, since I am apparently a much more polite and civilized person than you are, I’ll start with speaking to my server than with “kicking you in the ears” or whatever that threat pages ago was. ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/267 "2010-01-27T14:16:04Z")
Clearly, this thread will end when we all come to a consensus - if **Curlcoat** , **ZPG Zealot** , and a baby were in a burning Chili’s franchise - who will get throttled and eaten on the way to the door? ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/268 "2010-01-27T14:29:17Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > See “point #2” in the post, ironically enough, immediately above yours. Question for you: Is there any place where you would not take a baby or very young child? Other than obvious answers like a fine dining restaurant or skin bar. > [@kidneyfailure](#): > > However, I state again, I wouldn’t do it to make you happy, I’d do it because she needs it. Call me an inconsiderate asshole if you want… You are an inconsiderate asshole. > [@](#): > > Shit, maybe you even want me to blow you, too! I dunno, asshole. You any good at it? ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/269 "2010-01-27T14:48:26Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Question for you: Is there any place where you would not take a baby or very young child? Of course. Many. Specific examples? Well, any movie that is not specifically for children; any cultural event, like a play or opera, not meant for children; in short, places where children would be likely to be bored or irritated, where I’m really going for my own benefit and not in any way for that of the child - where the child is, in short, merely being dragged along, and is unlikely to derive some sort of benefit from the experience; moreover, events and places where the kid could not be easily moved if they get bored or irritated (I’d drag a kid shopping because it is easy to leave - but not to the Opera). Point is, _one of them is not a family restaurant like Chili’s_, which has a “children’s menu”, stacks high-chairs, and I hear even hands out crayons to the kids. I’m fully on board with the OP that parents who ignore their kids screaming in such places are asses, but equally those who demand that no parent be allowed to bring young kids to such places are, likewise, asses. The reason in both cases is the same - they ain’t being reasonable towards the rights of others; in the case of ignoring a screaming baby, they are also asses because they are ignoring their own kid. I take it you no longer dispute that _some_ folks here in this thread are unreasonably demanding that kids not be in _any public spaces at all_ until they are old enough to behave? To my mind, that’s totally unreasonable; and that’s all, really, I’m taking exception to. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/270 "2010-01-27T15:05:30Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Spanking works when done properly. I realize that not everyone agrees with that, so let me rephrase it: take the kid out to the car for appropriate punishment. > > Better? Moderately. I think the automatic assumption that punishment is required is mistaken, but it’s better than the previous assumption that I should hit my son. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/271 "2010-01-27T15:14:28Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > Call me an inconsiderate asshole if you want, but I don’t give two shits about how YOU feel, but how my kid feels. Already beaten to it by **MeanOldLady** , but yeah - that pretty much makes you a textbook example of an asshole. > [@](#): > > Hell, why stop at forcing me to remove my child from a restaurant so you can feel comfortable? Why not ask me to pay for your whole meal, too? And after that maybe you’ll want me to carry you back to your house on my back? And then wash your car? Re-sod your lawn? Shit, maybe you even want me to blow you, too! :rolleyes::rolleyes: Hell, why stop with having your kid make noise during my dinner? Why not bring the little tyke over to my table and empty his diaper in my vichyssoise? And then, you can dunk my head in the soup bowl and hold me under for a minute or two? And after you’ve relented and I’ve kicked and flailed my way free, why not run me over with your “Baby On Board” mini-van in the parking lot, all the while blaring the “Peanut Butter Jelly Time” song through your stereo whilst chomping down on a pacifier and cackling, “God, I love the smell of spit-up in the morning!” :rolleyes::rolleyes: > [@kidneyfailure](#): > > Me and mine come first before anyone else, end of story. I’m not going to apologize for that or let anyone make me feel bad about it. If the choice was between saving my kid from a burning building or saving a total stranger from the same burning building who do you think I’d pick? Who would you pick? If I was stranded with you and my kid on a deserted island and I was in charge, my kid would get his food first, I’d get mine, and you’d get whatever (if any) was left. And if I had to steal yours so he could survive I’d do it in a second. You know, a lot of us were struggling to come up with an apt metaphor to describe the frustration we feel in certain situations such as described by the OP. I don’t know why none of us saw the obvious paralells between mealtime annoyances and survival cannibalism. :smack: It was right there, staring us in the face. Oh, as an aside - in that perfectly analagous situation you presented, the first time you bent over to check on your little one, I’d smash you on the back of the skull with the oar and pitch you overboard. And if your kid had any problems with that, over the side they’d go as well. You shouldn’t have an issue with that - it’s just making “appropriate consideration” for others, after all. > [@](#): > > If he was crying and wouldn’t stop despite my best efforts, anyone who felt inconvenienced enough to comment outloud would be cordially invited to kiss my ass. Fine. Likewise, I’d keep talking to my dinner companion about my conjectures as to the nature of your family. “So, what do you think - brother and sister or first cousins? I mean, look at the brow ridge on that thing. That just _has_ to be chromosomal damage. Of course, I guess it could be environmental factors. Perhaps Mom shouldn’t have huffed all that brake cleaner fluid when she was preggers, eh?” > [@kidneyfailure](#): > > :::SHRUG::: Meh. Think what you want. My kid is more important to me than you are. Deal with it. Oh, I’ll deal with it just fine. By mocking you here, and ignoring your baseless sense of self-entitlement IRL. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/272 "2010-01-27T16:23:41Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Your point #2 is where we disagree - it would, in effect, eliminate ever bringing babies to a restaurant - or indeed any “public areas”-- _at all_. Unless the baby in question screams constantly, you’re retarded. Wait, okay, strike that–you’re retarded regardless. 1.) The baby screams constantly. Then why the hell are you taking it out in public instead of to a doctor? 2.) The baby is pretty normal, and, as babies do, will only scream when it needs something: food, a nap, a fresh diaper, attention. You can therefore assume that, if all these needs are met, your baby won’t be screaming its head off in public. So, you’d be fine to bring it to a restaurant assuming that those needs are currently met or can be met while you’re there, or otherwise be prepared to remove the child if it becomes a nuisance to others. > [@kidneyfailure](#): > > If my kid was running around like an idiot bothering other people I’d put a stop to it and apologize. If he was crying and wouldn’t stop despite my best efforts, anyone who felt inconvenienced enough to comment outloud would be cordially invited to kiss my ass. So why is it okay for your kid to scream and cry, but not run around? They’re equally disturbing and rude to the other patrons and staff. The screaming perhaps even more so–the running only bothers the people who can see it and/or whom they’re running past, but the crying bothers anyone in earshot. I really hope I can sit next to you at a restaurant some day, just so that I can scream in your ear through the whole meal. After all, I’m more important to me than you are to me, so that means that I can completely disregard your comfort at all times. Protip: Removing your child when they are disturbing others in public _doesn’t harm your child_. This is not a zero-sum game like choosing whom to save from a burning building. If your kid is tired or in pain or just in a bad mood, removing them helps everybody. It relieves the other patrons of having to listen to your spawn, and it teaches the spawn that some actions are not appropriate in public, and that consideration for other people is an essential part of being a human fucking being. Not to mention, if the kid \*is \*tired or in pain and not just throwing a tantrum, you shouldn’t be keeping them sitting in a restaurant, anyway. In summary: Keeping your crying kid in a restaurant makes you a terrible parent. In fact, you’re probably the Hitler of parents, who also declaws and circumcises your children. > [@ZPG\_Zealot](#): > > The parents were able to keep the children quiet when they had to be quiet. THAT CHICKEN WAS A BABYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY > [@Wile\_E](#): > > I got lost somewhere around page 4 and I’m not sure who’s for what anymore but was the restaurant in the OP on fire? I’m so confused now. It will be if \*\*kidneyfailure \*\*doesn’t shut that fucking kid up. ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 4:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/273 "2010-01-27T16:41:51Z")
That’s what I don’t get about the whole “me and my kid come first–fuck everybody else” thing, especially in comparison to saving your kid from a burning building. Being fed, rocked, pulled from a burning building–these are things that benefit the child in some way. But there’s no benefit to the kiddo to be kept in a situation that is obviously very distressing to it. I see the benefit to the parents, because they don’t have to inconvenience themselves by actually, you know, _parenting_ the poor little critter, but I see absolutely zero benefit to the actual child who is supposedly the A #1 priority here. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/274 "2010-01-27T17:08:24Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > I see the benefit to the parents, because they don’t have to inconvenience themselves by actually, you know, _parenting_ the poor little critter, but I see absolutely zero benefit to the actual child who is supposedly the A #1 priority here. **Narcissistic person is narcissistic! Film at 11**! ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/275 "2010-01-27T19:33:17Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > Unless the baby in question screams constantly, you’re retarded. Wait, okay, strike that–you’re retarded regardless. > > 1.) The baby screams constantly. Then why the hell are you taking it out in public instead of to a doctor? > > 2.) The baby is pretty normal, and, as babies do, will only scream when it needs something: food, a nap, a fresh diaper, attention. You can therefore assume that, if all these needs are met, your baby won’t be screaming its head off in public. So, you’d be fine to bring it to a restaurant assuming that those needs are currently met or can be met while you’re there, or otherwise be prepared to remove the child if it becomes a nuisance to others. Where the fuck are you getting the factoid that the kid screams constantly from? In case you have forgotten, here’s what you actually wrote: > [@](#): > > Parents should not bring their children into public areas where they might cause a disturbance until they have reasonable cause to believe that their child is capable of behaving. What constitutes “reasonable cause” will obviously be left to the parent to decide. The main point is, if your kid can’t behave when they’re eating dinner at home, they shouldn’t be brought to a restaurant. If your child is large enough to get up and run around on their own, but not yet mature enough to understand that a restaurant is not a place to play tag (or to listen when you tell them to get back in their seat), then you shouldn’t be bringing them out yet, because the night will indubitably end badly. Sorry, but your stated criteria are completely incompatible with ever having babies in “public areas”, period. No baby on earth is always “capable of behaving”, or “mature enough to understand” that they should not cause a disturbance, or capable of “listening” to parental instructions. Moreover, your assumption - that babies only cry when their “needs are not being met” and so it is always the parent’s fault - is amusing in its lack of reality. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [January 27, 2010, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/276 "2010-01-27T23:58:12Z")
> [@Shot\_From\_Guns](#): > > you’re probably the Hitler of parents, who also declaws and **circumcises** your children. Well, I _am_ Jewish… So, the Hitler comment is especially ironic! ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/277 "2010-01-28T00:02:53Z")
> [@Fuji](#): > > Oh, as an aside - in that perfectly analagous situation you presented, the first time you bent over to check on your little one, I’d smash you on the back of the skull with the oar and pitch you overboard. And if your kid had any problems with that, over the side they’d go as well. You shouldn’t have an issue with that - it’s just making “appropriate consideration” for others, after all. I wouldn’t have a problem with it. Survival of the fittest and all, eh? I’d make sure to get you first, though: I’d have my baby scream so loudly that it drove you from the area towards a well-hidden quicksand trap. Or maybe just the ole “coconut-to-the-back-of-the-skull” routine. Whichever required less effort on my part. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/278 "2010-01-28T01:50:14Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > …Moreover, your assumption - that babies only cry when their “needs are not being met” and so it is always the parent’s fault - is amusing in its lack of reality. Yeah, that one made me smile too. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/279 "2010-01-28T02:08:22Z")
One quick cellphone call to Rent-A-Bully, and before that ill-mannered child at the table beside you can scream three times, an uncouth youth will be delivered to your restaurant to deal with the problem. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/280 "2010-01-28T02:32:02Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > Sorry, but your stated criteria are completely incompatible with ever having babies in “public areas”, period. No baby on earth is always “capable of behaving”, or “mature enough to understand” that they should not cause a disturbance, or capable of “listening” to parental instructions. 3rd party chiming in… It seems like you are so invested in winning this argument that you’re purposely trying to find fault with her scenario. Of course babies are not _always_ capable of behaving and I’m not sure why you’re debating that because she didn’t say that. Let’s look again at what she said: > [@](#): > > Parents should not bring their children into public areas where they might cause a disturbance until they have reasonable cause to believe that their child is capable of behaving. What constitutes “reasonable cause” will obviously be left to the parent to decide. The main point is, if your kid can’t behave when they’re eating dinner at home, they shouldn’t be brought to a restaurant. If your child is large enough to get up and run around on their own, but not yet mature enough to understand that a restaurant is not a place to play tag (or to listen when you tell them to get back in their seat), then you shouldn’t be bringing them out yet, because the night will indubitably end badly. She said nothing about expecting a baby to always be capable of behaving. I doubt that anyone here expects that. That’s just plain silly. What I think people _do_ expect is that if the child starts throwing a fit and the adult is unable to calm the child that the parent remove the child (at least temporarily) from the dining area. Maybe a walk to the front of the restaurant to look at a fountain or painting or look out the window. If it’s warm out maybe outside to look at flowers or something? Yes, the parent’s food might get cold in the meantime but it’s their child and (as they want us all to realize) their child comes first to them. That’s common courtesy. Anyone who feels that is unreasonable or wants to invite someone to kiss their ass for expecting common courtesy is a shitbag and I shudder to think what hellspawn they are raising with that defective inner compass. What she said was that if a child cannot be somewhat well behaved at home, what on earth would compel someone to think the child could behave in a restaurant? Personally I think people like that simply don’t care if others are affected by their choice, they just want what they want. Fair enough, but to act as if it’s everyone else who is an unreasonable asshole is just delusional. Own your assholeishness. As far as what **Shot With Guns** said about being mature enough to understand, I think she might be referring to children at around six or seven who (I know I’ve seen it) think it’s time to run around get out pent up energy while mom and dad and uncle Joe drink coffee and chat. If these are DOPER children we’re talking about… well we know they’re all reading Shakespeare at three and quantum physics at six so I’d think knowing that playing in a restaurant is wrong would be a snap. So, in summary, I certainly don’t cringe if I see a child in a restaurant. I think for the most part parents are courteous of other diners and handle outbursts smashingly. It’s only when the screaming goes on unchecked for at least five minutes that I start twitching and think about exiting. The kid can’t help it, the parent should be the considerate one. It would be no different than if I took my grandfather, who has dementia, to a restaurant and he decided to pitch a wild fit and I just sat there and let him. I wouldn’t and I can’t even tuck him under my arm and make a run for it! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368.md?page=15)