# I pit crying babies in public places **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 25, 2010, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368 "2010-01-25T15:52:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![dukette71](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/8edcca/32.png) [@dukette71](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dukette71)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/281 "2010-01-28T03:15:00Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > I wouldn’t have a problem with it. Survival of the fittest and all, eh? I’d make sure to get you first, though: I’d have my baby scream so loudly that it drove you from the area towards a well-hidden quicksand trap. Or maybe just the ole “coconut-to-the-back-of-the-skull” routine. Whichever required less effort on my part. All of your posts are conjuring images of a caveman trying to live among the Romans ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 3:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/282 "2010-01-28T03:21:56Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > I think we’re all in agreement here that people who let their kids run wild in restaurants are annoying assholes. I think I’ve already said at least a few times I wouldn’t let my kids do that. If my kid was running around like an idiot bothering other people I’d put a stop to it and apologize. If he was crying and wouldn’t stop despite my best efforts, anyone who felt inconvenienced enough to comment outloud would be cordially invited to kiss my ass. I would scream at your baby. Then when you tell me to stop, I would tell you to kiss MY ass. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/283 "2010-01-28T03:32:38Z")
Basically what\*\* Sleeps With Butterflies\*\* said. I didn’t respond earlier because I didn’t feel like it. > [@](#): > > Parents should not bring their children into public areas where they might cause a disturbance until they have reasonable cause to believe that their child is capable of behaving. What constitutes “reasonable cause” will obviously be left to the parent to decide. The main point is, if your kid can’t behave when they’re eating dinner at home, they shouldn’t be brought to a restaurant. If your child is large enough to get up and run around on their own, but not yet mature enough to understand that a restaurant is not a place to play tag (or to listen when you tell them to get back in their seat), then you shouldn’t be bringing them out yet, because the night will indubitably end badly. I am not **Shot From Guns** , so I can’t tell you what she meant, but either taken alone, or in context of the rest of her posts in this thread, I do not read the above paragraph as “Lock your babies in the basement until they’ve reach an arbitrarily selected age that pleases me.” I read it as “Don’t bring your small children places where they’re going to piss everyone off until you’ve determined that they’re capable of behaving in a way that does \*not \*piss everyone off.” Maybe I’m misreading. It’s happened… once. > [@YogSosoth](#): > > I would scream at your baby. Then when you tell me to stop, I would tell you to kiss MY ass. Excellent! ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/284 "2010-01-28T03:34:01Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > I would scream at your baby. Then when you tell me to stop, I would tell you to kiss MY ass. No you wouldn’t. Because if my child was still crying despite my best efforts, I would have some serious, pent up frustration looking for an outlet. The second you made a move towards my little one I’d have found the perfect outlet. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/285 "2010-01-28T03:39:13Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > No you wouldn’t. Because if my child was still crying despite my best efforts, I would have some serious, pent up frustration looking for an outlet. The second you made a move towards my little one I’d have found the perfect outlet. Tough guy has asshole kids. Odd. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/286 "2010-01-28T03:40:21Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Tough guy has asshole kids. Odd. Nah, just protective of internet pussies getting in my crying kid’s face. Go figure. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/287 "2010-01-28T03:52:39Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > Then when you tell me to stop, I would tell you to kiss MY ass. I’d probably stomp a mudhole in it instead…if such a response was warranted. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/288 "2010-01-28T03:56:58Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > Nah, just protective of internet pussies getting in my crying kid’s face. Go figure. Well why the hell not? If it’s okay for a baby to continue crying and screaming because attempts to quiet it have failed, and taking it outside is simply an intolerable bother, and whether or not everyone in the restaurant is able to enjoy their meal is irrelevant, I say it’s okay for me to scream at babies. Hey, fuck you, and fuck your dinner. MY dinner is important. YOURS can eat dick. Seriously, I think next time this happens at a restaurant, I’m going to walk up to the family’s table and start shrieking. _ **AGHH! AGGH! WAAH! AAAGH! GURGLE!** _ Don’t like it? Oh well. I’m only concerned about how I feel. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/289 "2010-01-28T04:11:21Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Well why the hell not? If it’s okay for a baby to continue crying and screaming because attempts to quiet it have failed, and taking it outside is simply an intolerable bother, and whether or not everyone in the restaurant is able to enjoy their meal is irrelevant, I say it’s okay for me to scream at babies. Hey, fuck you, and fuck your dinner. MY dinner is important. YOURS can eat dick. Seriously, I think next time this happens at a restaurant, I’m going to walk up to the family’s table and start shrieking. > > _ **AGHH! AGGH! WAAH! AAAGH! GURGLE!** _ > > Don’t like it? Oh well. I’m only concerned about how I feel. You need to take a pill or something. That, or find a better locale for eats that is missing the whole kid element. I simply stated what I would do, should some fuckwad like Yogsosoft think they had what it takes to scream at my baby, not an asshole 6,7 or 10 year old, an infant. I have skipped out of the first 7 pages of this trainwreck of a thread because it is full of exaggeration on both sides coming from people who would never utter a peep at what they thought was a disruptive child, but can sure talk a good game here. For the record, my kids are pretty well behaved when we go out. We stick to places with crayons and high chairs. In those rare moments when all else failed, we packed up and left. Believe it or not, we do care about our the other patrons in the establishment, that is of course until they cross the line. So chill out… ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/290 "2010-01-28T04:15:10Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > No you wouldn’t. Because if my child was still crying despite my best efforts, I would have some serious, pent up frustration looking for an outlet. The second you made a move towards my little one I’d have found the perfect outlet. No you wouldn’t because first of all, nobody would expect a grown man to be screaming at a baby. Second, if you make any move on me I will totally sue your ass off. I’m not going to touch your kid, but my face will be inches from his and I will be yelling at him. People want others to stand by while they try and fail to shut their idiot kids up? Here’s a 100% fool proof method. Set down your fork, pick up the kid, and go outside. Any parent who fails to do that after their kid rebuffs their efforts deserves to be yelled at. And don’t tempt me, I’ve done this before. It was at a Denny’s on a Friday night and I totally yelled at some moron kid. It ended well. The parents got annoyed/scared and decided to leave. I got my peace and quiet. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/291 "2010-01-28T04:25:23Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > No you wouldn’t because first of all, nobody would expect a grown man to be screaming at a baby. Second, if you make any move on me I will totally sue your ass off. I’m not going to touch your kid, but my face will be inches from his and I will be yelling at him. > > People want others to stand by while they try and fail to shut their idiot kids up? Here’s a 100% fool proof method. Set down your fork, pick up the kid, and go outside. Any parent who fails to do that after their kid rebuffs their efforts deserves to be yelled at. > > And don’t tempt me, I’ve done this before. It was at a Denny’s on a Friday night and I totally yelled at some moron kid. It ended well. The parents got annoyed/scared and decided to leave. I got my peace and quiet. I love it. You think that everyone is afraid of a lawsuit? Who do you think would win? The guy that witnesses saw threatening an obviously upset infant, or the dad protecting his kid? I’d own your ass. As I told the oldlady before you, I’m not the problem in real life. I would have taken my kids out before any of you tough guys ever had to raise your voice. That, and I stay away from Denny’s as a rule. ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/292 "2010-01-28T04:31:20Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > You need to take a pill or something. That, or find a better locale for eats that is missing the whole kid element. I prefer to self-medicate with gin, but to each his own. Also, where I choose to dine is irrelevant. I stay away from places where kids are given a free pass to be assholes, but the point of this thread really is that parents shouldn’t allow their kids to be assholes. I hold the parents far more accountable for out-of-control children than the wait staff. In one of **Vinyl Turnip** ’s few non-smart-ass posts, I think he gave good example of why this should be the case. > [@](#): > > I simply stated what I would do, should some fuckwad like Yogsosoft think they had what it takes to scream at my baby, not an asshole 6,7 or 10 year old, an infant. I have skipped out of the first 7 pages of this trainwreck of a thread because it is full of exaggeration on both sides coming from people who would never utter a peep at what they thought was a disruptive child, but can sure talk a good game here. Okay, no one is going to start screaming at babies. I think the point was if your kid is allowed to disrupt everyone else’s meal, why can’t the rest of us be disruptive? If we disrupted your meal, you’d be pretty pissed too. But all is well if it’s a baby? Fine, babies cry, but then deal with it accordingly instead of going, “Hell, babies cry. Learn to love it.” Also, I’m pretty much always full of shit, and not that this has more than fuckall to do with anything, but I tell parents to settle their asshole kids down. Most recently (10 days ago?) I was at a restaurant waiting to be seated, and a bunch of kids were running around, screaming, playing hide and seek, or whatever the shit it was they were doing (Seriously? Take your kid to a park, and not a restaurant, if this is what they’re going to do), then one of the little kids bumped into me. I told the mother, “You need to stop your children from being disruptive.” That was it. I wasn’t some super badass, I didn’t go all Chuck Norris on anyone; I stated rather simply that she needed to control their disruptive behavior. She apologized to me and shushed up little Timmy and Tammy, and all was well. > [@](#): > > In those rare moments when all else failed, we packed up and left. Believe it or not, we do care about our the other patrons in the establishment, that is of course until they cross the line. So chill out… Well you seemed to be hand-jobbing **liverdamage** over there who said he’ll make an attempt to shut the kid up, but 1) it has nothing to do with his concern for other paying customers, and 2) if the kid won’t shut up, oh well. Go eat dicks, everyone else! Perhaps I may have been unfairly conflating the two of you. Edit: Maybe Yogie does really yell at babies. Awesome. ---
**Author:** ![kidneyfailure](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9f8e36/32.png) [@kidneyfailure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidneyfailure)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/293 "2010-01-28T04:42:02Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > Well you seemed to be hand-jobbing **liverdamage** over there who said he’ll make an attempt to shut the kid up, but 1) it has nothing to do with his concern for other paying customers, **and 2) if the kid won’t shut up, oh well.** Go eat dicks, everyone else! Perhaps I may have been unfairly conflating the two of you. Please point out where I said that. I said nothing of the sort. I stated several times over several posts that I would quiet my kid down and that that would include taking it out of the restaurant if need be. The thing you got so bent out of shape about was me saying that I’d do that because my kid needed it, not because it would make you feel better. And, y’know what? I stand by that. Iwasn’t put on this Earth to make you feel good. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/294 "2010-01-28T04:44:44Z")
> [@MeanOldLady](#): > > … but the point of this thread really is that parents shouldn’t allow their kids to be assholes. I hold the parents far more accountable for out-of-control children than the wait staff. I agree. I don’t see how it is the fault of the wait staff if people are not controlling their kids or if the local Red Hat Society has been hitting the apple-tinis a bit too hard. In either situation, adults need to take care of them selves or their charges. When they don’t we get threads like this. > [@](#): > > Most recently (10 days ago?) I was at a restaurant waiting to be seated, and a bunch of kids were running around, screaming, playing hide and seek, or whatever the shit it was they were doing (Seriously? Take your kid to a park, and not a restaurant, if this is what they’re going to do), then one of the little kids bumped into me. I told the mother, “You need to stop your children from being disruptive.” That was it. I wasn’t some super badass, I didn’t go all Chuck Norris on anyone; I stated rather simply that she needed to control their disruptive behavior. She apologized to me and shushed up little Timmy and Tammy, and all was well. You mean you didn’t get in the face of a toddler and scream at them? You didn’t then tell the mom to kiss your ass? > [@](#): > > Well you seemed to be hand-jobbing **liverdamage** over there who said he’ll make an attempt to shut the kid up, but 1) it has nothing to do with his concern for other paying customers, and 2) if the kid won’t shut up, oh well. Go eat dicks, everyone else! Perhaps I may have been unfairly conflating the two of you. Wasn’t me. Screaming kids are annoying. At times, I have had three of them of my own. I see no reason to inflict that pain on others. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 4:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/295 "2010-01-28T04:57:48Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > You need to take a pill or something. That, or find a better locale for eats that is missing the whole kid element. I simply stated what I would do, should some fuckwad like Yogsosoft think they had what it takes to scream at my baby, not an asshole 6,7 or 10 year old, an infant. I have skipped out of the first 7 pages of this trainwreck of a thread because it is full of exaggeration on both sides coming from people who would never utter a peep at what they thought was a disruptive child, but can sure talk a good game here. > > For the record, my kids are pretty well behaved when we go out. We stick to places with crayons and high chairs. In those rare moments when all else failed, we packed up and left. Believe it or not, we do care about our the other patrons in the establishment, that is of course until they cross the line. So chill out… So you waded in without reading the thread and responded to an internet threat by someone you think is just talking a good game? That’s all it takes to set off your inner caveman to join a dick waving, testosterone fueled “oh yeah? Well I’d do THIS!” game? Are you really that easy to rile up? ---
**Author:** ![MeanOldLady](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/meanoldlady/32/10737_2.png) [@MeanOldLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MeanOldLady)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 5:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/296 "2010-01-28T05:03:11Z")
> [@kidneyfailure](#): > > Please point out where I said that. I said nothing of the sort. I stated several times over several posts that I would quiet my kid down and that that would include taking it out of the restaurant if need be. The thing you got so bent out of shape about was me saying that I’d do that because my kid needed it, not because it would make you feel better. And, y’know what? I stand by that. Iwasn’t put on this Earth to make you feel good. No, you did not use the exact, verbatim phrase “Oh well.” You said “So, if it’s taking her a little longer to calm down than usual you can just butt the hell out,” which is quite different from “If it’s taking her a little longer than usual to calm down, I’ll remove her from the dining area.” Riddle me this: If you don’t give two shits about other people’s dining experiences (which, in fact, makes you an A+ douche), why bother to take the kid out of the restaurant “if need be”? What child-calming techniques can be practised outside that can’t be inside? I thought the point of removing the child from the room was to avoid having the restaurant being burdened by the shrill ravings of an inconsolable child. If there’s some other reason, do tell. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/297 "2010-01-28T05:05:13Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > So you waded in without reading the thread and responded to an internet threat by someone you think is just talking a good game? That’s all it takes to set off your inner caveman to join a dick waving, testosterone fueled “oh yeah? Well I’d do THIS!” game? Are you really that easy to rile up? No, I have been following this trainwreck since it started. Yog started with the caveman talk, regarding screaming at a kid as though we are supposed to believe that. I saw no reason why I could not jump in at that time as well. Is there some sort of rule that one must contribute to a thread X amount of times before calling someone on their bullshit? ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/298 "2010-01-28T05:12:17Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > No, I have been following this trainwreck since it started. Yog started with the caveman talk, regarding screaming at a kid as though we are supposed to believe that. I saw no reason why I could not jump in at that time as well. Is there some sort of rule that one must contribute to a thread X amount of times before calling someone on their bullshit? No, but it usually helps to read the thread before making stupid, eyerolling comments that are exactly like the ones you claim to find irritating. You’re both playing internet tough guy. How proud you must be. Do go on some more about your internet badassery, it’s intoxicating. ---
**Author:** ![JXJohns](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jxjohns/32/469_2.png) [@JXJohns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JXJohns)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 5:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/299 "2010-01-28T05:17:22Z")
> [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](#): > > No, but it usually helps to read the thread before making stupid, eyerolling comments that are exactly like the ones you claim to find irritating. You’re both playing internet tough guy. How proud you must be. I did read the thread, perhaps you didn’t read my first reply to you. Mine are not the only stupid comments. At least I can admit that. Yog thought it quite clever to scream in the face of a crying kid if he wasunable to enjoy his grease laden grand slam at Denny’s. If that is not the epitome of an internet tough guy, I don’t know what is. When confronted with what he could expect in return, instead of stating that he could defend himself or would be willing to take a beating for the sake of his fellow dining patrons, he uses the lawsuit card. Yeah, whatever. I on the other hand simply said that I would find his threatening my child a good outlet for pent up frustration. If you think that is being a tough guy, well… I can’t help you. ---
**Author:** ![Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@Sleeps\_With\_Butterflies](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleeps_With_Butterflies)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2010, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368/300 "2010-01-28T05:23:46Z")
> [@JXJohns](#): > > I did read the thread, perhaps you didn’t read my first reply to you. Mine are not the only stupid comments. At least I can admit that. > > Yog thought it quite clever to scream in the face of a crying kid if he wasunable to enjoy his grease laden grand slam at Denny’s. If that is not the epitome of an internet tough guy, I don’t know what is. When confronted with what he could expect in return, instead of stating that he could defend himself or would be willing to take a beating for the sake of his fellow dining patrons, he uses the lawsuit card. Yeah, whatever. > > I on the other hand simply said that I would find his threatening my child a good outlet for pent up frustration. If you think that is being a tough guy, well… I can’t help you. Let me see if I’ve got this right. Yog said he’d scream in the face of a child and you assume that he’s being an internet tough guy and (as you mentioned before) wouldn’t do something in real life like that. So, you don’t believe him and think he’s just doing some internet blustering. This blustering (that you don’t believe anyway) is prompting you to go back and forth about what you WOULD do if he did what you don’t believe he would do? You know, the pretend screaming at your child that is never going to happen because (a) you’re never going to see him in a restaurant and (b) you wouldn’t let your kid cry on and on without removing them? Did I get that right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-crying-babies-in-public-places/526368.md?page=16)