# I pit CVS price gouging **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 15, 2011, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424 "2011-09-15T19:06:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/21 "2011-09-19T14:33:07Z")
> [@Carnacki](#): > > So this morning I called around and was relieved that all 3 pharmacies near me charge almost the exact same. Check with wal mart, costco and target. Thsoe seem to be the companies that charge lower prices on generic drugs. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/22 "2011-09-19T14:38:38Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Precisely. It’s not gouging. Not even close. > > Gouging would be, tripling the price of gasoline or food during some kind of emergency (or a generator, plywood, etc in advance of a hurricane). > > Otherwise, it’s the market, and Darwinism at work (ie, idiots who don’t shop around). You want to quibble about the definition of gouging, then go ahead. But I would suggest that health care is one of those areas where market forces do not work particularly well. If you want to call an 80 year old woman who went to the largest pharmacy retailer in America to get her drugs an idiot, then I guess that’s your perogative but shouldn’t compeitition more or less insure that prices remain relatively stable between retailers in the same region? I would suggest that competition and amrket forces do not work particularly well in health care. I would further suggest that health care might be one of those industries where we regulate compeittion and pricing. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/23 "2011-09-19T14:41:23Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Because sometimes the market does not function properly in some way or another. I’m not saying they should regulate, I’m saying that my mother in law doesn’t believe that market forces or the government would permit such price differences without a reason. But why does your mother-in-law believe the govt. would have anything to allow in the first place? > [@](#): > > Yeah, there are different buffers that affect different people differently… so? So it means that not everybody can switch from brand name X to generic Y, or from generic Y to generic W without consequences. That’s “so”. It can save hundreds of dollars; it can also cause medical complications and time for the doctor to figure out. So unless her doctor knows exactly that two medications are exactly the same - unlikely, since he’s not a pharmacist - then simply recommending “switch to the cheaper generic” is not automatically a good move. ---
**Author:** ![constanze](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f9ae1b/32.png) [@constanze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/constanze)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2011, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/24 "2011-09-19T15:51:55Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I would suggest that competition and market forces do not work particularly well in health care. Why do you hate America? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2011, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/25 "2011-09-20T22:08:28Z")
What is it with titles of pit threads? I was 99% sure the OP would not describe any price gouging, and sure e-fuckin’-nough. See also “hypocrite” and “liar/lied/etc.” ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/26 "2011-09-21T15:11:20Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If there were anything at all to the notion of competition in this arena then you would not see a 700% difference in prices between generic drugs with the same active ingredient manufactured by and sold by different folks. This doesn’t make a lot of sense. Competition is exactly the reason for the disparity in pricing. I don’t see any market failure here. Cheaper drugs were available, but instead the consumer chose, of his own free will, to pay more than he had to. You can do that if you want, but there was no fraud or coercion involved. The market does not stop anyone from spending more than they have to. The information that generics are just as good as name brands is available, and your relative chose not to avail herself of it. So it goes. To voluntarily pay more than you have to, and then complain about price gouging, is almost self-evidently silly. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/27 "2011-09-21T16:04:37Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t see any market failure here. Actually, imperfect information is a species of[market failure](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_competition#cite_note-ReferenceA-0). A competitive market requires that costs be transparent with no transaction costs to discover pricing. Of course, in the real world, there is never perfect information with no transaction costs. But in most well-functioning markets there is sufficient price transparency to avoid these kind of massive disparities for the same product. The existence of this kind of price disparity suggests that the prices for drugs are unusually non-transparent or there are unusual levels of transaction costs associating with finding those prices. The same thing, incidentally, happens with passport photos. You get get them for $7 most places, but Walgreens charges (or used to charge) like $35. People pay it because they assume there is well-functioning, competitive market for such things, when in fact it is not well-functioning. There are a lot of reasons to care when a business profits from ignorance, rather than from competition in well-functioning markets. For one, there is more deadweight loss in those circumstances (in this case the 45 minutes of time it takes to sort out the pricing), since the business has an interest in keeping the costs of procuring price information high (by, say, not advertising drug prices). For another, it rewards businesses that invest resources in trying to dupe people (i.e. Best Buy’s training programs to sell HDMI cables for $70 when the market price is $7), instead of in socially beneficial ways. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/28 "2011-09-21T17:00:39Z")
One other thing to consider is the span of the prescription. If you are buying a 30 day supply at CVS, the price you see at Costco might be for a 90 day supply. I get all my meds through Costco mail order, 90 days at a time, for about 1/3 the cost of a 30 day supply at the Walgreen’s six blocks away from me. ---
**Author:** ![Bloodless\_Turnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bloodless\_Turnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bloodless_Turnip)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/29 "2011-09-21T17:16:16Z")
To add to the OP’s rant: A drug that costs $117.95 at Costco (you can see Costco drug prices [here](http://www.costco.com/Pharmacy/DrugInformation.aspx?p=1) btw) costs about $47.00 from Canada, and the generic (not available at all in the U.S.) is about $30, or less. If you have insurance, the drug manufacturer has a “savings card” that subsidises your costs, you end up paying $11 for the drug. If you don’t have insurance, the manufacturer kicks in $50 towards your costs. This is $117.95 - $50 = $67.95 per month as opposed to about $30 per month. Personally, I’ll not be buying any drugs in the U.S. again until I check Canadian prices first. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/30 "2011-09-21T18:13:58Z")
Several years ago my mother was written a prescription for a newly diagnosed heart rhythm abnormality. I took the script to the local CVS and they told me that, since there was no generic equivalent available, it would cost some large amount for one month’s worth. I don’t recall the exact amount but it was over $200. Normally she uses the local pharmacy just for the first 30 days of a new prescription, after that her insurance requires that she use a specific mail order pharmacy. So we called that pharmacy to see what the refills would cost. Same story. They quoted a similar amount due to the fact that there was no generic available. So, out of pure frustration, I went to Google and entered something like _brand name_ “generic equivalent” and I got many results all giving a generic equivalent - all giving the _same_ generic equivalent. Many of them were legitimate, reliable sites: pharm companies, government sites, teaching hospitals with public information websites, etc. So I went back to the CVS and told them “it does have a generic and it’s spelled …”. They checked it again, apologized, and said that it would cost her usual $7 copay. :smack: I became kind of a legend among her friends and our extended family for a while. I got phone calls thanking me for doing that for her. Our dentist told me that if I ever wanted to double-check any her medicines I could come in any time and use their PDR. I didn’t deserve any of those accolades. TWO freaking pharmacies couldn’t get it right. It wasn’t that I did something right, THEY did something extremely wrong, either intentionally or through incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 6:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/31 "2011-09-21T18:18:20Z")
> [@Richard\_Parker](#): > > Actually, imperfect information is a species of[market failure](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_competition#cite_note-ReferenceA-0). A competitive market requires that costs be transparent with no transaction costs to discover pricing. I don’t see any imperfect information here either - > [@](#): > > ..having 2 pharmacists and a dozen doctors in the family who all assure her that the difference between the two drugs are going to be buffers that have negligible effects on the drugs potency or efficacy and has NO effect on its safety. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/32 "2011-09-21T18:39:09Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > I don’t see any imperfect information here either - > > Regards, > Shodan I think you’re misunderstanding the term. When an identical product is available elsewhere for cheaper, but some consumers don’t know this or there is a significant cost to learn it, that is considered imperfect information. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/33 "2011-09-21T18:40:10Z")
**Damuri** , can you refill her CVS bottles with pills from the other ones, or get her one of those weekly pillboxes, which you’d refill for her? Wait some weeks before you try it and tell her CVS changed its format. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/34 "2011-09-21T19:29:12Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > This doesn’t make a lot of sense. Competition is exactly the reason for the disparity in pricing. WTF are you talking about? Competition drives prices closer and closer to the cost of production eventually driving out inefficient producers leaving the field to the most cost effective producers. > [@](#): > > I don’t see any market failure here. Cheaper drugs were available, but instead the consumer chose, of his own free will, to pay more than he had to. You can do that if you want, but there was no fraud or coercion involved. > > The market does not stop anyone from spending more than they have to. The information that generics are just as good as name brands is available, and your relative chose not to avail herself of it. So it goes. > > To voluntarily pay more than you have to, and then complain about price gouging, is almost self-evidently silly. > > Regards, > Shodan They are BOTH generic. So CVS was selling the generic version of this drug for $200 and Costco was selling the generic version of this drug for $28. The voluntary part has everything to do with the fact that an 80 year old woman is nervous enough about her health that she is not willing to buy the $28 version of a drug because she thinks the $200 drug must be better in some way. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/35 "2011-09-21T19:36:01Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > **Damuri** , can you refill her CVS bottles with pills from the other ones, or get her one of those weekly pillboxes, which you’d refill for her? Wait some weeks before you try it and tell her CVS changed its format. I don’t really care about the money enough to try to deceive my mother in law, I am just ranting. I would much rather have her take the pink pill shaped like an oval for $2/day than have her feel uneasy about taking the orange pill shaped like a diamond (that does the exact same fucking thing) for $0.30/day. I just object to the CVS pricing their drugs so high on the expectation that people will just pay those prices without checking how much other places charge. It particularly victimizes folks like my mother in law who must choose between peace of mind and saving $60/month. Not everyone has childrent that can afford to throw away $60/month for the sake of peace of mind. ---
**Author:** ![Dangerosa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Dangerosa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dangerosa)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/36 "2011-09-21T19:49:39Z")
> [@constanze](#): > > Isn’t that always explained by the USian Dopers with the unique structure of the Health system in the US? So because each separate insurance makes deals with the manufacturers, and because each consumer has different rates on his insurances, the price varies from one person to another, from one brand to the other. Target and Costco both have online generic pharmacy prices on their website. While it isn’t necessarily HARD to find prices, especially on the generics - there is the perception that the market is “competitive” and therefore there is significantly less variation in price than exists. There is also the perception that this is a lot more complicated than it is in terms of who pays what. My Target is really good. My co-pay is $10 on meds - and I pay $10 if they put it through the insurance system whether I’m getting a $4 generic or a $300 specialty prescription. If its a $4 generic, Target doesn’t even put it though my insurance and just sells it to me for $4. One issue is that not all medications are covered by my insurance - so sometimes the doctor will prescribe that $300 specialty medication - and it isn’t covered at all ---
**Author:** ![BlankSlate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/blankslate/32/80_2.png) [@BlankSlate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BlankSlate)\ **Post date:** [September 21, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/37 "2011-09-21T22:04:40Z")
> [@Mr\_Smashy](#): > > Precisely. It’s not gouging. Not even close. > > Gouging would be, tripling the price of gasoline or food during some kind of emergency (or a generator, plywood, etc in advance of a hurricane). > > Otherwise, it’s the market, and Darwinism at work (ie, idiots who don’t shop around). Yeah, fuck the elderly, the sick, the poor and all the most vulnerable in our society. They need to die quicker. ---
**Author:** ![Carnacki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b5e925/32.png) [@Carnacki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnacki)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 12:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/38 "2011-09-22T00:56:59Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Check with wal mart, costco and target. Thsoe seem to be the companies that charge lower prices on generic drugs. Unfortunately, there are currently no generics for Humalog or Lantis insulin. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Smashy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/2bfe46/32.png) [@Mr\_Smashy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Smashy)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/39 "2011-09-22T01:16:34Z")
> [@BlankSlate](#): > > Yeah, fuck the elderly, the sick, the poor and all the most vulnerable in our society. They need to die quicker. The truth is harsh, no doubt about it. But when someone has been shown the stupidity of their actions (as per the OP) and says that ‘you get what you pay for’ (as per the OP), then they deserve to suffer the consequences of their actions. As does everyone. And **Damuri** , if you are truly concerned about introducing more market forces into healthcare, then you should be a) against Obamacare and b) for the GOP proposals to introduce health savings accounts. Let people shop around. There’s some pretty good research out there (I’m too lazy to quote it now but I’m sure a quick Google search will find it) that more competition and information sharply drives down the cost curve when it comes to healthcare. It’s worked in the few areas where it’s been ‘allowed’ (ie, no insurance coverage) so far, especially lasik/eye improvements and cosmetic surgery. If you let the invisible hand do its magic, you’d be surprised how much better off the healthcare consumer would be. ---
**Author:** ![tumbleddown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e9bcb4/32.png) [@tumbleddown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tumbleddown)\ **Post date:** [September 22, 2011, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424/40 "2011-09-22T01:20:36Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The voluntary part has everything to do with the fact that an 80 year old woman is nervous enough about her health that she is not willing to buy the $28 version of a drug because she thinks the $200 drug must be better in some way. This should be something that her doctor explains to her. This would be where you, as her advocate, go to the doctor with her, explain this problem and have medical knowledge imparted. That your mother doesn’t have sufficient information to feel confident in a major health issue here isn’t CVS’s fault. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-cvs-price-gouging/596424.md?page=3)