# I Pit damuriajashi and DemonTree **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 18, 2020, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300 "2020-12-18T00:49:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 22
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/422 "2021-05-25T21:33:00Z")
> [@Chingon](#): > > Well now to be fair, @damuriajashi isn’t married to the claim that they don’t care enough, he is also open to them simply being dumber or lazier (culturally of course wink wink). Citing differences in culture as a possible source of racial disparity is not the same thing as saying they are dumber or lazier. But I’m glad you showed up. You are the final member of the three dumbest posters on the dope. I mean you don’t provide as much quantity of stupid as gigo but you make up for it in quality. You provide some high grade stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 9:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/423 "2021-05-25T21:34:41Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > You are the final member of the three dumbest posters on the dope. I mean you don’t provide as much quantity of stupid as gigo but you make up for it in quality. You provide some high grade stupid. “Aha,” says the Joker, “You’re the final member of the ‘crazy sadistic villain brigade’, glad to see you show up with your high quality craziness and sadistic villainy!” ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/424 "2021-05-25T21:36:34Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > If you think that iiandyiiii is racist, how are you any less of a dumbfuck than a Trump voter? So now everyone that disagrees with you is a trump voter too? You really have to connect those dots a little bit better. I realized we are in dogpile mode but it really helps some of the idiots on your side if you can make better arguments. They sort of rely on the smarter ones to say intelligent things for them to dogpile onto. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/425 "2021-05-25T21:36:58Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > If you think that iiandyiiii is racist, how are you any less of a dumbfuck than a Trump voter? > > Answer: none. None less dumbfuck. _Humps with Wolves_ is a dumbfuck indeed. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/426 "2021-05-25T21:41:35Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > So now everyone that disagrees with you is a trump voter too? You and I both know that’s not what that says, so what’s the point in lying like this? Whose benefit is all this bullshit for? ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/427 "2021-05-25T21:51:18Z")
@damuriajashi Just popped into the thread because it was updating so damn frequently that it caught my attention. Ready roughly the last 150 or so comments. Look - I know it’s frustrating to have people disagree with you, often vehemently, about subjects you care deeply about. I know it’s frustrating for people to call you dishonest, or to badmouth you. But reading solely the comments in the thread: you _ARE_ asking for it. You are absolutely dismissive, and when you lash out against people, and are attacking them when you admit to not even being able to identify the people you’re angry with, as well as not being able to provide a single specific example . . . you are proving them right. I’m not calling you a bigot, or a racist, because I haven’t read those threads and I refuse to judge you solely on the comments of the others. But reading this? I feel 100% safe in judging you to be an ass. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/428 "2021-05-25T22:07:09Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > So because you don’t want to screw over Black kids to benefit Asian kids unless it also screws over White kids, that makes your attitude toward Black kids not racist? That blind spot you have wrt anti-Black racism is actually racism. I have no desire to screw over white kids. I am not sure what I said that would give you the impression that i want to do that. I am pointing out that they were increasing the white population at the expense of the asian population in the name of social justice. At this point I don’t know if you are just obstinately trying to “make yourself right” or convincing yourself you don’t have a blind spot when it comes to anti-asian discrimination. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/429 "2021-05-25T22:18:15Z")
I suppose you’re right but given the history, it is hard for me to give a fuck about playing nice in the pit. > [@ParallelLines](#): > > But reading this? I feel 100% safe in judging you to be an ass. Sometimes you can’t play nice with idiots and racists. But I did eventually get around to providing some examples. > [@damuriajashi](#): > > There is a thread where iiandyiiii defends a policy that would change a merit based system to a lottery. The plan was projected to have the following effects on the racial demographics of the incoming class: > > Increase black admissions by 25 students from 1.72% to 7% black (from 8 students to 33 students); > Increase hispanic admissions by 26 students from 2.6% to 8% (from 12 students to 38 students); > Increase white admissions by 33 students from 18% to 25% (from 85 students to 118 students): > Reduce asian admissions by 89 students from 73% to 54% (from 343 students to 254 students). > > So the only population that was reduced was asian and the largest increase in population was among whites. But he felt this reduction in overall minority presence was fine because the minorities he wanted to increase got more seats. He felt the reduction in the asian admissions was also aceptable because asians are doing fine so he was fine with asian kids losing out. > > In response to my pointing out the effect of making the school whiter at the expense of asian students, he responded: > > “That’s not the goal, and that might be a very slight negative, but the other benefits make this new policy superior to the status quo.” > > So yeah, he considers asian kids acceptable collateral damage in the pursuit of social justice. > > Then he went on to reassure me that this policy doesn’t discriminate against asians in any way whatsoever. > > This is the thread: > [Selective Magnet School in Virginia moving towards a lottery system - #139 by DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/139) ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/430 "2021-05-25T22:30:41Z")
…eventually you got around to demonstrating, once again, your miserable reading comprehension skills, your lack of understanding of nuance, your dishonesty, and that you’re as dumb as a rock. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/431 "2021-05-25T22:32:40Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > Would you let dogpiling idiots dissuade you from defending the truth? This begs the question of whether or not you would recognize it. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/432 "2021-05-25T22:44:18Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > I have no desire to screw over white kids. I am not sure what I said that would give you the impression that i want to do that. I am pointing out that they were increasing the white population at the expense of the asian population in the name of social justice. Wow–you’re right, when you put it that way, it’s a dumb fuckin argument I directed at you. Who would even make such a dumb fuckin argument in the first place? ---
**Author:** ![Max\_S](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/46a35a/32.png) [@Max\_S](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Max_S)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/433 "2021-05-26T00:48:10Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > But he felt this reduction in overall minority presence was fine because the minorities he wanted to increase got more seats. He felt the reduction in the asian admissions was also aceptable because asians are doing fine so he was fine with asian kids losing out. > > In response to my pointing out the effect of making the school whiter at the expense of asian students, he responded: > > “That’s not the goal, and that might be a very slight negative, but the other benefits make this new policy superior to the status quo.” Actually yes, I do see where **iiandyiiii** wrote to that effect. See post #67 from the linked topic, > > [@Selective Magnet School in Virginia moving towards a lottery system](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/67): > > > > > [@Selective Magnet School in Virginia moving towards a lottery system](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/selective-magnet-school-in-virginia-moving-towards-a-lottery-system/922347/51): > > > > > > The studies done by FCPS specifically point out that asian admissions will shrink and black/hispanic/white admissions will increase. How do you justify rejecting more accomplished asians to make room for less accomplished white kids? > > > > That’s a side affect, not the goal. It’s still better than the status quo, though. With the status quo, black and Hispanic kids are underserved by this educational service. This lessens this, without underserving Asian kids. Asian kids still have plenty of access to this (and other) quality educational services in the area. > [@damuriajashi](#): > > So yeah, he considers asian kids acceptable collateral damage in the pursuit of social justice. I’m relieved to learn you did not mean Asian kids are collateral damage in the traditional sense. But yes, having reviewed the topic, **iiandyiiii** ’s posts indicate that he believes lessening the prospects of Asian kids getting into this particular school is acceptable ‘collateral damage’ in the pursuit of social justice (specifically increasing Black and Hispanic admissions). The only thing you have to do now is explain how that is racist - I do not believe the mere consequence of an action or policy adversely affecting a minority group implies that the policy or its defenders are racist. For example a teacher may decide to change seating arrangements. Assume that for the most part, Asian students are stereotypically short and Black students stereotypically tall. Whereas before students were seated by height, now they will be seated alphabetically. I do not think the change is racist simply because Asian students lose their front row seats. ~Max ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/434 "2021-05-26T01:22:07Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > I’m relieved to learn you did not mean Asian kids are collateral damage in the traditional sense. But yes, having reviewed the topic, **iiandyiiii** ’s posts indicate that he believes lessening the prospects of Asian kids getting into this particular school is acceptable ‘collateral damage’ in the pursuit of social justice (specifically increasing Black and Hispanic admissions). > > The only thing you have to do now is explain how that is racist - I do not believe the mere consequence of an action or policy adversely affecting a minority group implies that the policy or its defenders are racist. Especially when any choice is going to adversely impact one minority group or another. DA tries to hide behind “race neutral” solutions like standardized test scores, but hates on other “race neutral” solutions like lottery systems, and has absolutely no self-awareness when it comes to this discrepancy. He’s so determined that his point’s going to be right that he ignores any contradictions. And when I make fun of him for it, he hilariously criticizes my argument, _although it uses almost precisely the same words as his own argument_. ---
**Author:** ![Chisquirrel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6bbea6/32.png) [@Chisquirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chisquirrel)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/435 "2021-05-26T01:32:31Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Whose benefit is all this bullshit for? I don’t know about you, but I’ve been incredibly amused by the entire exchange. And tickled pink that someone actually remembers me enough to tell all their friends about how dumb I am, while accusing everyone else of hiding behind minority family members and blatantly misattributing most posters’ contributions to this and other threads. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/436 "2021-05-26T05:28:49Z")
> [@ParallelLines](#): > > I’m not calling you a bigot, or a racist, because I haven’t read those threads You don’t have to read _those_ threads. He’s been plenty racist just in _this_ one. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/437 "2021-05-26T08:42:10Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > And STILL no explanation for the accusation of racism? As already pointed out, it’s been explained to you over and over and you handwaved it away every time. “Oh, but _this_ time I won’t pull the football away, Charlie Brown!”. > [@Miller](#): > > You and I both know that’s not what that says, so what’s the point in lying like this? Whose benefit is all this bullshit for? His own. As I said, everyone’s a hero in their own story, even if they have to rewrite reality to do so. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 2:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/438 "2021-05-26T14:37:24Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Wow–you’re right, when you put it that way, it’s a dumb fuckin argument I directed at you. Who would even make such a dumb fuckin argument in the first place? So you are going to entirely ignore in response to the fact that when i pointed out that the biggest group to benefit from the proposal would be whites then blacks and hispanics, and all at the expense of asians, he said: > [@](#): > > It’s a flawed solution to an even more flawed problem. This is better than the status quo, but still far from perfect. I’m for it because it’s improvement, but I’d support a solution that increased black/Hispanic enrollment without increasing white enrollment even more, most likely. Isn’t he saying that he realizes that asians have to suffer but he is OK with that but he would prefer one that didn’t help whites out so much? Go through that thread, he doesn’t show a lot of concern for the impact of any proposals on asians. Asians are all doing fine. In response to Demon Tree saying “Helping one minority at the expense of another is an obviously bad solution!” He responded: > [@](#): > > Still better, and less racist, than the status quo. Is there some other way to interpret this willingness to trade out a bunch of asians for black kids and even MORE white kids? What am I doing that is even remotely comparable? It seems that by the logic of this board, designing admissions to promote merit rather than race is racist and pushing out kids of one minority in favor of kids of three more politically powerful minorities is not. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 2:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/439 "2021-05-26T14:41:50Z")
> [@damuriajashi](#): > > Isn’t he saying that he realizes that asians have to suffer but he is OK with that but he would prefer one that didn’t help whites out so much? Go through that thread, he doesn’t show a lot of concern for the impact of any proposals on asians. Asians are all doing fine. What you’re consistently ignoring is that under the current situation, it’s Black students who suffer. As long as the number of slots is fixed–as long as it’s a zero-sum game–someone is suffering. If he’s racist for being “okay” with Asian students suffering, you’re exactly as racist for being “Okay” with Black students suffering. Or maybe that’s a stupid way to analyze racism. ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/440 "2021-05-26T15:02:48Z")
> [@Max\_S](#): > > The only thing you have to do now is explain how that is racist - I do not believe the mere consequence of an action or policy adversely affecting a minority group implies that the policy or its defenders are racist. Do you believe voter ID laws are racist? If there is a predictable disparate impact, and you still go ahead, isn’t that at least an indicia of racism? If there was a similar predictable racially disparate impact that hurt hispanics, how much thought do you think some of the most critical people on this thread would put into it before crying racism? Doesn’t it bother you that I’m not accusing iiandyiiii of gap-toothed hood wearing cross burning racism. That sort of racism is very rare these days. I am accusing him of having deep seated racial biases that allows him to dismiss the relatively large negative impacts of a policy on a politically weak minority to give perceived benefits to less qualified politically powerful racial groups. > [@](#): > > For example a teacher may decide to change seating arrangements. Assume that for the most part, Asian students are stereotypically short and Black students stereotypically tall. Whereas before students were seated by height, now they will be seated alphabetically. I do not think the change is racist simply because Asian students lose their front row seats. And would that still be the case if the teacher only did this after white kids stopped sitting at the front of the class despite years of black parents asking for an alphabetical seating arrangement. And this would result in more white kids sitting at the front of the class? ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/441 "2021-05-26T15:05:53Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Especially when any choice is going to adversely impact one minority group or another. DA tries to hide behind “race neutral” solutions like standardized test scores, but hates on other “race neutral” solutions like lottery systems, and has absolutely no self-awareness when it comes to this discrepancy. He’s so determined that his point’s going to be right that he ignores any contradictions. And when I make fun of him for it, he hilariously criticizes my argument, _although it uses almost precisely the same words as his own argument_ . Wait. You think that a merit based system race neutral system is comparable to a lottery based race neutral system? That’s one of the dumbest things I have heard you say. There are huge logical differences between what I said and your recharacterization of what I said. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300.md?page=21) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300.md?page=23)