# I Pit damuriajashi and DemonTree **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 18, 2020, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300 "2020-12-18T00:49:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 49
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/963 "2025-02-13T01:04:51Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > The government deliberately ignored a burgeoning health crisis because it would kill off a group of people they didn’t like. > > How is that not genocide? Oooh, now I understand. If by “genocide” you mean “a bad thing”, then you are correct. Most other people in the world might be a little confused, though, because generally the word “genocide” has a definition that’s a bit more precise than that. Unless you’ve got a link to government documentation showing intent to use neglect of the AIDS epidemic to wipe out the gay population - [you know, the kind of evidence that exists aplenty for actual genocides-by-neglect, like the Holodomor](https://holodomor.ca/resources/documents-and-sources/documents/) - then it’s pretty insulting to all parties involved to make that comparison. I’ll note the very ambiguous language used here: > [@Miller](#): > > The government deliberately ignored a burgeoning health crisis because it would kill off a group of people they didn’t like. Did they ignore a burgeoning health crisis _with the intention of using said crisis to decimate a group they disliked_? This is precisely what Ukranians painstakingly proved the Soviets did in the Holodomor. They went through all the work of proving that intent _because that is what makes the Holodomor a genocide_. Or did they deliberately ignore a burgeoning health crisis because _they believed it would only impact people they don’t care about_? This is what Trump did in 2020 but you’d hardly say he _committed a genocide against elderly people_. Your sentence can be read both ways. Classic motte and bailey argument. When challenged on the idea that Reagan wasn’t implementing a final solution to the gay question, you’ll move the goal posts and pretend you are being challenged on an entirely different claim. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The main solution to genocide these days appears to be trying to nitpick the definition into it “technically” not being genocide and pretend that makes it perfectly acceptable. You must be _incredibly fucking stupid_ if you think that saying that the Reagan admin’s response to AIDS was _not genocide_ is remotely similar to saying that it is _perfectly acceptable_. Are you some kind of moronic being possessing only two categories to file things under, “genocide” and “perfectly alright”? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/964 "2025-02-13T01:09:14Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Your hijack sensor is way overcalibrated. Nah, that hijack is clearly exactly what the crow was trying to provoke. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/965 "2025-02-13T01:15:54Z")
Setting aside his hypothetical word substitution, do you agree that that quote is, essentially, a call to genocide? ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/966 "2025-02-13T01:16:13Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > > [@Babale](#): > > > > Your flippant use of such a serious term _desperately_ needs a rethink. > > For fuck’s sake. I didn’t. You’re way out of pocket here. Mmhhmm, clearly you disagree with the flippant use for the term “genocide” to describe Reagan’s admin’s reaction to AIDS. Oh, wait: > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The only concession to @Babale I’ll make is that, as you said, the actual genocide part was 1980s, and much less in the 1990s (where it was more of a rearguard action, I think). You can’t act all offended that I implied you said something you didn’t say, and then say it in your next post. It’s a bit silly. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/967 "2025-02-13T01:22:30Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > You can’t act all offended that I implied you said something you didn’t say, and then say it in your next post. It’s a bit silly. Quoting shit out of order is a bit silly, in your words. You accused me of using the word genocide before I ever used it, and applying to a context where I still haven’t used it. I will let Miller speak to Reagan’s deliberate denial of funding and speculation on whether aids was a divine punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/968 "2025-02-13T01:33:36Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Setting aside his hypothetical word substitution, do you agree that that quote is, essentially, a call to genocide? His word substitution perfectly illustrated why it _wouldn’t_ be a genocide. Have you ever heard of the Spanish Inquisition referred to as a genocide? That would be an example of a time that someone tried to eliminate Juda **ism** (at least within Spain), and like I said I’ve never heard anyone refer to the Spanish Inquisition as a _genocide_. If you called what Republicans are doing a transgender _Inquisition_, you’d probably be closer to the mark. In before idiots like Crowmanyclouds and Dertrihs decide to take this post as support of the Inquisition, because I consider it to be a different sort of humanitarian crime than genocide. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/969 "2025-02-13T01:52:35Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > and applying to a context where I still haven’t used it. Say whaaaa? I literally quoted you using it in this context, immediately after getting upset about it: > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > the actual genocide part was 1980s, ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/970 "2025-02-13T04:07:03Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > You must be _incredibly fucking stupid_ if you think that saying that the Reagan admin’s response to AIDS was _not genocide_ is remotely similar to saying that it is _perfectly acceptable_. The _entire point_ of not calling it genocide is to characterize it as “perfectly alright”. It was genocide, it was intended as genocide and they barely even tried pretending it was anything else. The Right has always treated AIDS as a tool of God to kill sinners. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 7:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/971 "2025-02-13T07:42:55Z")
Yadda yadda genocide region of France yadda yadda “sparkling pogrom”. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/972 "2025-02-13T11:09:02Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I literally quoted you using it in this context The context in which I used it was about deliberate negligence towards AIDS in the 1980s and its effect on gay men, not about persecution of transfolk in the 2020s. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/973 "2025-02-13T13:52:37Z")
She expressed hurt right after I made an anti-Demon Tree statement in my thread about the Ziz cult. That led to ATMB, where she expressed hurt directly to me. I urged her to genuinely renounce her transphobia, and try to make amends for it, as a basis for going forward, if she really has had a change of heart. I’ve never seen her show any vulnerability before. She only did so in response to me. Anyway, I just remembered something from years ago, on an email list of a ragtag bunch of queer witches, there was one who started berating me for being trans, and I got my hackles up, and things got pretty hostile. Next thing I know, that individual comes out as a trans man, who had been bottling up his need to transition, making him ornery on the subject. He had been getting bad advice to repress his transness. As soon as he came out, I welcomed him as my brother and we became fast friends. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/974 "2025-02-13T13:56:12Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > The _entire point_ of not calling it genocide is to characterize it as “perfectly alright”. So just to be perfectly clear… you’re claiming that the entire reason I don’t consider Reagan’s lack of response to AIDS (or, presumably, the Spanish Inquisition) is because I believe these things were _perfectly alright?_ > [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The context in which I used it was about deliberate negligence towards AIDS in the 1980s and its effect on gay men, not about persecution of transfolk in the 2020s. I have no idea what this game is and I’m not really interested in playing. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/975 "2025-02-13T13:56:47Z")
> [@Babale](#): > > I have no idea what this game is and I’m not really interested in playing. Almost exactly what I was thinking. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen you back yourself into an obviously wrong point-scoring battle and, when confronted with being wrong, you get increasingly obtuse to avoid apologizing for your error. Dropping your whole “BUT YOU CALLED IT GENOCIDE!” nonsense is quite welcome. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/976 "2025-02-13T13:57:59Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > it was intended as genocide That’s exactly the claim I asked Miller for evidence of, although he didn’t actually outright make it, as I showed in the post where I called out his ambiguous language. You haven’t provided any evidence of that claim, either. I linked the sort of evidence that Ukranians use to prove that the Soviet’s handling of the Holodomor was intentional, not neglectful. Where is the similar evidence for the US government? ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/977 "2025-02-13T13:59:54Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Dropping your whole “BUT YOU CALLED IT GENOCIDE!” nonsense is quite welcome. “gEnOcIdE”. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/978 "2025-02-13T13:59:56Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Almost exactly what I was thinking. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen you back yourself into an obviously wrong point-scoring battle and, when confronted with being wrong, you get increasingly obtuse to avoid apologizing for your error. Dropping your whole “BUT YOU CALLED IT GENOCIDE!” nonsense is quite welcome. 👍😃👍 You can have the last shot, I can see it means a lot to you. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/979 "2025-02-13T14:00:44Z")
My opinion of you, once high, continues to slide downward. You got some work to do, but I can’t help you with it. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/980 "2025-02-13T14:06:28Z")
Hey, guys! I posted something relevant to the thread, a few places up. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/981 "2025-02-13T14:09:34Z")
You did, and I found it interesting. But forget it, Johanna - it’s Pit town. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/982 "2025-02-13T14:11:04Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > My opinion of you, once high, continues to slide downward. Aww, that’s so sad! Queue the world’s smallest violin: [![](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/theadventuresofgarythesnail/images/e/ea/Squilliam_Returns_191.webp) ](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/theadventuresofgarythesnail/images/e/ea/Squilliam_Returns_191.webp) Given the opinions you’ve displayed on this and a number of other issues, I am relieved to hear that. It’s pretty telling how hard you assholes are going after me because I disagree with you over a _word_. All with the implications (or outright statements in DerTrihs’ case) that I _approve_ of Reagan’s actions because I’d use a different term to describe them. Fuck off with the high horse you rode in on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300.md?page=48) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300.md?page=50)