# I Pit damuriajashi and DemonTree **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 18, 2020, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300 "2020-12-18T00:49:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 53
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [February 13, 2025, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1043 "2025-02-13T23:35:47Z")
As the one who created this thread, I have zero problem with it. (And, as far as I know, they aren’t breaking any rules, so I think my opinion means something, if not a lot.) LHOD is combatting the disingenuous arguments I mentioned. And LHOD is a good guy, and does not deserved to be tarred with a bad brush because he’s fighting back against what is at best bigotry from ignorance. He’s in the right forum, and he’s fighting for the right side. And those who want to discuss possible redemption, that is not what this Pit thread was intended for, but, hey, whatever. If somehow DemonTree actually reforms, that would be amazing. Count me as extremely skeptical, however. Gonna go talk with my boyfriend, who is home, and the fact I’m still finishing this post makes it seem like this place may be too addicting to pop back in on. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1044 "2025-02-14T01:41:42Z")
Never mind about that then. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1045 "2025-02-14T11:33:51Z")
> [@TroutMan](#): > > If you look at her latest post in ATMB (from after your post), she feels she hasn’t changed at all and hasn’t ever caused harm to trans people. Maybe I’m misremembering, or have built up a terrible image of her in my mind and used it to attack her unjustly all these years? Oh shit. I hope I haven’t done that. I don’t normally go sifting through old posts, but I really want to make sure I haven’t done that to someone. from [J K Rowling and the trans furore](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/30): > [@J K Rowling and the trans furore](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/30): > > Male predators are unlikely to undergo physical transition in order to gain access to single sex spaces like toilets and prisons and hospital wards. But if all they have to do is wait three months and sign a form, that’s very different. > [@J K Rowling and the trans furore](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/35): > > You don’t think it’s a big deal if teenagers are given irreversible hormone treatment and surgery to remove parts of their bodies due to a faulty diagnosis? > [@J K Rowling and the trans furore](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/39): > > There have been several [cases](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-sex-attacks-in-womens-jails-by-transgender-convicts-cx9m8zqpg) in the UK of transwomen moved into women’s prisons who went on the sexually assault other inmates. Most of the other sexual assaults were committed by (male) prison staff. > [@J K Rowling and the trans furore](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/86): > > it’s an epidemic of teen girls who feel unhappy with their changing bodies and the role assigned to them by society, wanting to chop off their breasts and become men. > [@J K Rowling and the trans furore](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/88): > > A separate prison or unit for transgender prisoners would keep everyone safe. > [@J K Rowling and the trans furore](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/j-k-rowling-and-the-trans-furore/855795/110): > > Exactly. And there’s nothing to stop any unscrupulous and ambitious man from identifying himself onto all women shortlists, or into awards for women, or into any other position supposed to be reserved for women, without having suffered any of the disadvantages of being female or having any personal experience of issues affecting women. Even genuine transwomen can’t and don’t have all the same experiences as natal women, which makes them applying for and taking positions like Woman’s Officer somewhat problematic. That’s from the first hundred or so posts in a single thread. Reviewing them, I’m seeing typical scaremongering about trans teens, complaints about transwomen receiving awards for women, scaremongering about bathrooms and changing rooms and shelters, and more. If her views haven’t changed, I don’t see a reason to praise her. If they have, an acknowledgment of the change would be helpful. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1046 "2025-02-14T17:34:25Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > If her views haven’t changed, I don’t see a reason to praise her. If they have, an acknowledgment of the change would be helpful. Yup. Either her views have changed without her realizing it, or her statement about not wanting to infringe on trans rights was a total lie. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1047 "2025-02-14T19:37:35Z")
I find that a lot of transphobic people (and I’m not bothering to look up DemonTree-specific data for this observation, so I don’t know how much of it applies to her directly) have a fair bit of cognitive dissonance on the subject. They often think of themselves as humane and sympathetic people, and they’ll claim to support trans rights, respect people’s pronoun choices, have transgender friends, etc. But then a ways down the road they’ll be foaming at the mouth about “male-bodied individuals”, “trans-identified males”, etc.—i.e., transgender women—being in women’s sports or a women’s prison or a women’s locker room, or whatever. Or if a transphobic co-worker of a transgender person is being disciplined for misgendering their colleague, there’s indignation about “freedom of speech infringement”. It’s like, okay, I’m a humane and tolerant person who is willing to accommodate rights for transgender people, as long as they don’t come into conflict with my views on the rights that transphobic people are entitled to. The transphobic people’s “right” to express their rejection of transgender identity has to take priority. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1048 "2025-02-14T19:57:39Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > It’s like, okay, I’m a humane and tolerant person who is willing to accommodate rights for transgender people, as long as they don’t come into conflict with my views on the rights that transphobic people are entitled to. The transphobic people’s “right” to express their rejection of transgender identity has to take priority. Yeah–I didn’t quote the bits where she essentially lamented how in the good old days, trans folk were rare and were always understood to be attempting to present as their identified sex. I get why that might be confusing to someone who’s just starting to think about the issue, but I struggle to understand how someone who’s humane and kind can’t, upon reflection, just shrug and say, “Hey, friend, whatever gets you through the day.” ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1049 "2025-02-14T20:01:28Z")
Some people are incensed at the idea that they could have ever been quite so oblivious. They take it as personal insult that maybe they weren’t as much on top of things as they thought. So, it must always be somebody else’s fault. Some take the pushback against their anger as an opportunity for personal reflection and growth. Many people don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [February 14, 2025, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1050 "2025-02-14T21:54:35Z")
My response to her over there: > Well, that’s disappointing. That you believe your spreading transphobic bigotry online is harmless is at odds with your becoming suicidal at being criticized online. It shows you have a lot more introspection to do. A lot more reflection on the consequences of your choices. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2025, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1051 "2025-02-15T01:41:30Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > Some people are incensed at the idea that they could have ever been quite so oblivious. They take it as personal insult that maybe they weren’t as much on top of things as they thought. So, it must always be somebody else’s fault. I was like that **very** briefly until I snapped out of it. I think that someone just told me, just be a decent person to people, you don’t need to bend over backward and be a saint, just don’t be an asshole. And that kind of frank advice stuck, and I stopped being defensive about it, and accepted that I used to have wrong and backward ideas, and it’s okay to admit it and move on. I never _hated_ anyone, but I did used to think that being gay was weird and worth making fun of, because growing up in the 80s that was how it was treated in media and that’s how people I knew back then thought of it. And I’d never even heard of the possibility of trans people, and when I first heard of it I thought people were just making up BS and asking me to go along with it. In both cases it was just a matter of being educated about reality. Then later on in life, having gay and trans friends made it just so **normal**. I have a bit of sympathy for people who haven’t gotten to that point, but it has to start with being open about it and not being a pigheaded asshole. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2025, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1052 "2025-04-06T14:02:10Z")
> [@So actually it's just fine to link to hate speech {This is not accurate}](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/so-actually-its-just-fine-to-link-to-hate-speech-this-is-not-accurate/1016692/1): > > After reporting a [post](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/4658) for linking to anti-trans hate speech (aka a US government communication, but it really was that bad) in the Pit, @Miller told me that since the poster was not endorsing said hate speech, no mod action was required. > > AIUI, the rules against hate speech apply even in the Pit, so this should not be a factor. > > I read the board rules quite recently, and nowhere does it say “linking to hate speech is banned, unless you clearly say that you don’t agree with said hate speech”. If the rules can be interpreted to ban linking to hate speech, this would apply regardless of endorsement. Punishing posters for breaking rules which are not included in the TOS, and in fact were decided ex post facto, is IMHO wrong and unfair. > > Does the board actually _want_ a rule that it’s just fine to link to hate speech, as long as the poster adds a disclaimer that they don’t endorse it? That seems to me like something easily abused by genuine rules lawyers. And posters who may find it upsetting will see it regardless, as will any posters who could potentially be persuaded by it. Also, given that some official US government communications now qualify as hate speech, this rule constitutes viewpoint discrimination, something mods have always said in the past is not practiced. It’s not against the rules to post links to White House press releases, it’s just against the rules to say you agree with them. (For the record, I strongly disagree with the linked press release.) > > I don’t think this is a good rule, but: > > 1. If it is going to be followed going forward, it should be added to the list of rules in the TOS so other posters don’t break it unknowingly. > > 2. I’m sure the mods, and probably other posters too, are tired of me banging on about this, but I really do feel that I was treated unfairly by being suspended, not for linking to hate speech, but for not specifically saying I don’t agree with it; a rule I couldn’t reasonably have been expected to know since it wasn’t in the TOS or even agreed on at the time, and on which I had never received any communication from the mods. In general the SDMB mods do seem to be fair, and give notes and warnings so that posters know they are breaking the rules, and clearly made a choice to continue to do so. That didn’t happen in this case, for any of the things @What_Exit cited in my suspension, which is why I believe it was unfair. Unlike @Saint_Cad, who was assured he isn’t on a super-secret list of Problem Posters, the mods have mentioned that there _is_ a list of posters who have been suspended in the past and are therefore subject to more serious sanctions. I feel like I have that hanging over me as a result of this event, and I would like to be taken off the list, please. So, to put it simply, you want the ability to post links to and quote hate speech without fear that that will effecting your posting privileges because of your posting history (and I mean your entire history not just the posts that led to your suspension(s)). That sum it up? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2025, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1053 "2025-04-06T19:16:37Z")
And doesn’t want anyone else acknowledging the existence of hate. That, I think, is the more insidious part. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2025, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1054 "2025-04-06T19:24:48Z")
Our very own Unity Mitford: tea, crumpets, white gloves, swastikas. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2025, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1055 "2025-04-06T20:41:21Z")
Until yesterday, I’d never heard of this woman (Unity Mitford) in my 52 years on this planet, and I’ve seen her referenced twice on this board in the last 24 hours. Weird. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2025, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1056 "2025-04-06T20:42:40Z")
Not so weird, because I had just read the name here in the same post where you read it, so it was fresh in my mind. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2025, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1057 "2025-04-06T21:08:17Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I’d never heard of this woman (Unity Mitford) in my 52 years on this planet They’re an oddly fascinating bunch of 20th century upper-class yobs, if only for the disparate trajectories their life took them. [“Diana the Fascist, Jessica the Communist, Unity the Hitler-lover, Nancy the Novelist, Deborah the Duchess and Pamela the unobtrusive poultry connoisseur.”](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitford_family) Pamela seems to have been pretty right-wing as well in addition to being fond of poultry. She was just more quiet about it than Unity or Diana. ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2025, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1058 "2025-04-06T21:46:34Z")
I’ve seen a couple of novels set in the mid-20th century with families clearly based on the Mitfords by the way ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2025, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1059 "2025-04-23T21:59:40Z")
So, @Thing.Fish points to DemonTree that her point there was a racist one, as the talk was about educational performance between races. > [@Policy positions (or how the Democrats can win again)](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/policy-positions-or-how-the-democrats-can-win-again/1015794/94): > > That’s a racist statement. What else could these achievement gaps possibly be due to? Scientifically, race is a meaningless concept. So if we see differences in achievements between various groups, it must mean that one group is being discriminated against. There’s literally no other possibility. Racists like to talk about “cultural pathology” as a way of blaming Black people for their problems. But if Black people are more vulnerable to these “pathologies” than white people are, that must mea… And then @DemonTree in a reply to him makes it worse 🤦‍♂️ Way to go, reply to someone pointing that using race there was not good, and then make it worse by using a bigoted and Antisemite point. ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2025, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1060 "2025-04-23T22:36:49Z")
Yeah, she really let the mask slip there. Bad enough she’s a raging transphobe, turns out she’s racist too. Can’t say I’m terribly surprised, though. What an awful person. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2025, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1061 "2025-04-23T22:50:34Z")
> [@Cervaise](#): > > Yeah, she really let the mask slip there. Bad enough she’s a raging transphobe, turns out she’s racist too. There’s a thread in GD where she makes a veiled, but clear to me, complaint about Muslim ~~invaders~~ immigrants. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 23, 2025, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300/1062 "2025-04-23T22:56:36Z")
And to all of the folks who say things like “It isn’t black people who are the problem; it’s black culture”… Well, what culture is that? Black peoples’ own culture was forcibly stripped from them. The culture they were forced to adopt was that of white Southerners. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300.md?page=52) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-damuriajashi-and-demontree/928300.md?page=54)