Fuck, I meant that to be a new thread – I just reported that to the mods. Please disregard!!! :smack:
I work in IT and I have no problem with Disney’s actions. IMO foreign workers need jobs just as much as Americans. Perhaps I can say this because there are plenty of IT jobs.
Except that H1-B isn’t a level playing field. There are plenty of foreign workers that jump at the chance to do H1-B work at a lower total cost to the employer than if using US workers. Either the foreign workers get a total renumeration greater than what they would get at home, get international experience (which is worth something), get a chance to work in the US (which has a value when they return home), have the potential for a green card and citizenship (which again has a value), and are taking jobs that Americans can and are willing to do. It’s a way for corporations to reduce costs.
Of course, there are additional value for H1-B workers of providing insights to foreign markets, direct connections, etc. But we are seeing a crowding out of opportunities for US tech people, and then get into a vicious cycle of less American’s going into tech because there are fewer jobs and greater opportunities.
Replacing Disney’s IT staff in the US with foreign workers isn’t an obvious net value to the United States…
H1-B’s biggest perk:
Easy to find US citizen to marry!
Yes, I HAVE worked with several
The Hi-B policy is one major issue I’m voting on.
Sounds alot like working for Sprint. It’s one of the biggest employers in our area of Kansas City and is also known for lots of layoffs and rehires.
Free trade includes both goods and services. Your position would reduce economic growth and living standards. Seriously, I’m pointing out something that has an extremely strong consensus among economists. If your hope is to do the greatest good for Americans collectively, abandon your latter position.
There are an awful lot of H-1B visa holders in IT, and everywhere I’ve worked turns to those groups if we can’t find Americans with the needed skill set. Sponsorship is a pain in the ass for management and HR.
I have noticed a major difference in attitude and can-do between Americans and East Asians (which comprise most of the H-1B employees I work with). I hear from Americans all of the reasons we can’t do something. I hear from H-1B visa holders, “Perhaps we can do this, let me work on it”, and then get an answer (sometimes, yes; sometimes, no).
We agree here. There is certainly no reason to lay off gaffers and so on, or people in call centers, or people processing claims…and send those jobs overseas.
Seems to me that importing foreign labor to displace American workers is a public policy issue. This isn’t outsourcing, which cannot be prevented. They actually have to get permission to bring these folks in. The purpose of H1-B is to allow companies to import workers for which there is a labor shortage. Disney is apparently abusing the program. Legally, of course, because the intent of a program is not the same as what the program actually is. But the visa program should probably be tightened up.
I’ve made a career out of training my replacements, usually foreign. On one job with Accenture (placed at Best Buy), I had to train seven people before they got three to stick and learn enough about the job to cover the work I had been doing.
I hope you’re also unhappy with IBM, by the way. And, Accenture’s not so clean, either. Is off-shoring back to being evil again?
You can’t beat capitalists. So join them. We had over 3k in stock dividend money this month alone!
If it consoles:
The people who I worked with who were most obnoxious about H1-B’s:
Lambda Technology (IT Consulting) - bought by GE, whereupon all good people left. Died mid-80’s.
Mervyn’s of California (aka Mervyn’s) - Discount softgoods (fabric) chain. Like the idea of cheap Indian (dot) labor, but didn’t trust them to actually work unless they were in the building.
Yes: actually brought the Indians to US.
Mervyn’s died (finally)
But they come whining to the US courts every time their copyrights run out. Why is it that every other country has a shorter copyright term than the US? It is because when the copyright started getting to closer to expiration, Disney lobbied hard and won.
If we were all that smart we would have just chosen to have been born rich.
Thanks for punctuating your post with just a dash of racism!
Too late. I’ve already written my senators and congressman.
Sure, but how do you define “labor shortage”? Does it mean “literally can’t find a warm body who knows how to do this?”, or does it mean “can’t find someone who likes to do this job at a price we’re willing to pay?”
In my experience, it’s about 2:1 the second; my office has hired a freaking swarm of Indian IT people, and I doubt it’s because we can’t find people to do production support of EDI systems, report development in Hyperion, SSRS, and similar tools, and to do stuff like garden-variety Java, dot net, and Powerbuilder development.
My guess is that as a subsidiary of a huge behemoth, they don’t want to pay guys 70-80k to do that kind of thing, so they cry “Shortage” and hire some guy FOB from Bangalore sporting a porn-star mustache and willing to work for $45k.
bump -true dat. And that’s the rub. This isn’t outsourcing, this is using foreign labor to displace US jobs in the US. As I pointed out earlier, $45k plus the option of getting a green card is worth a LOT to some foreign workers. Whereas, an American with the education, background and skillset is “worth” about $85k. US corporations get cheaper labor, uncle sugar gets less tax revenue, US jobs get “insourced/outsourced”, there’s less demand for US tech jobs so less pull through. I’m not seeing how this benefits the US of A as a whole with the exception of Disney and their ilk…
This isn’t the invisible hand; rather it’s policy driving hiring (or corporate lobbying driving hiring).
They’ll eat it up, no doubt. “Protect American jobs!” and vilifying foreign sources for jobs are the types of sound bites Americans love. Too bad it produces exactly the effect, on a greater scale, they think it will fix.
Actually Disneyland Resort Paris has (or had ? It’s been a few years since last I made the trip) a policy of priority hiring for American expats & nationals applying for a job - something which is explicitly against French labour laws. As are their stringent dress code policies & liberal poking around in employees’ privacy, and the work hours. They don’t give much of a shit about local safety codes either, applying their own standards.
But that’s OK, because they also have their own unique legal status, achieved during the negotiations with the French state for their purchase of the land : in any litigation whatsoever between the State and Disney (including e.g. employee litigation or not adhering to this or that code or law), Disney opined that the State Council would be both litigant and judge and therefore couldn’t not be trusted to make fair decision - ergo a special international oversight committee has to be convened to adjudicate, and State oversight of the park is super restricted. In practice, and since setting up such a committee or enforcing its decisions would be an administrative nightmare (not to mention horrible PR for the State), as long as they keep bringing in the tourists and don’t process them or the staff into hamburgers or something :), they can pretty much do as they please.
Disney is the only company (foreign or national) for which this is the case.
[QUOTE=Fear Itself]
I support free trade. I also support using immigration to protect domestic jobs for Americans. These positions are not mutually exclusive.
[/QUOTE]
Err, yes, yes they are. You can’t advocate both protectionism AND free trade. They’re literally opposite concepts. For reference, item 9 on Wikipedia’s definition of protectionism :
[QUOTE=Wiki]
Employment-based immigration restrictions, such as labor certification requirements or numerical caps on work visas.
[/QUOTE]