# I pit DrDeth **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2021, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971 "2021-02-28T19:52:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 117
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2025, 6:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2325 "2025-06-07T06:58:12Z")
Or alternately…“They might be fake They might be lies, They might be big, big, fake, fake lies.” ---
**Author:** ![ParallelLines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/parallellines/32/3575_2.png) [@ParallelLines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParallelLines)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2025, 7:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2326 "2025-06-07T07:25:55Z")
I’m not sure if TMBG\* would appreciate this connection, but I for one endorse the clever adaptation to the circumstances of the thread. \*They Might Be Giants (both the [song](https://tmbw.net/wiki/Lyrics:They_Might_Be_Giants_(Song)) and [band](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/They_Might_Be_Giants)) for those who don’t know. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2025, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2327 "2025-06-07T07:51:47Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Look, I said my Father was in WW2- in the Pacific. He joined on Dec 8 1941 in the Philippines, got sick, and was shipped back home- then was sent back to the pacific- New Guinea and Philippines, etc. And what was his rank at the time he got sick? Oh, yes. “Brevet E-8”. (Snort) Since MacArthur was evacuated on March 11, 1942, that’s some mighty impressive rank advancement. One might even say it’s unbelievable. Take a wild guess how many privates and corporals are assigned as drivers for generals. I’ll leave aside for now the issue of some junior enlisted member being sent by ship or airplane back and forth across the Pacific from/to an island surrounded by the Japanese in the early days of America’s entry into the Second World War. There’s a saying about tangled webs. You should look into it. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2025, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2328 "2025-06-07T14:20:31Z")
Few people know this, but in 1944 Gen. MacArthur said upon landing on Leyte, “So I came here, and proved you wrong - with cites.” ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2025, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2329 "2025-06-07T14:36:45Z")
> [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Your stories keep changing and not only are the completely implausible, they contradicted themselves. Hey, Doc? [![](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9a/45/cc/9a45cc6b93988add1e6da425c21b5ddf.gif) ](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/9a/45/cc/9a45cc6b93988add1e6da425c21b5ddf.gif) ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2025, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2330 "2025-06-07T20:27:52Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > This is demonstrably false. You have never known what you are talking about in relation the military. It would behoove you to shut up about it. [Far East Air Force (United States) - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_East_Air_Force_(United_States)#:~:text=49%20of%20the%20original%20165,enlisted%20men%20escaped%20the%20Philippines). Okay, not the entire- but most did. > [@Monty](#): > > I wonder why you don’t realize this is a story. You dont think there were NCOs in HQ units that did this? > [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Now you have a new shift in your narrative. Before it was that your father was working as a member of MacArthur’s staff, but today you are claiming that he was in the “Army Air Corp”. You cant be both? > [@TokyoBayer](#): > > Mistake #1 It shouldn’t have been the [Army Air Corp](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_Air_Corps). Which is why- you cowardly racist shitweasel I put it in quotes, as that is what most people call it. The VA, on my fathers tombstone says " Branch:US ARMY AIR FORCES Rank:CPL War:WORLD WAR II Served 1941-1946." > [@TokyoBayer](#): > > So was your father in MacArthur’s headquarters by special request of a top general or was he in the FEAF and later the AAF? You think that no one in the HQ was in the Flying branch? Like , they were all Infantry, no armored or artillery or Quartermasters or any of dozens of other branches of the US Army? And that was after Father was flown out to Australia, then shipped back to the USA, then was sent back to the pacific. > [@Monty](#): > > And what was his rank at the time he got sick? Oh, yes. “Brevet E-8”. Nope,. Brevet E4,. which was his permanent rank, he was later breveted to E6 and other ranks as needed- This was very common in war zones. I am surprised you dont know this. > [@Monty](#): > > Take a wild guess how many privates and corporals are assigned as drivers for generals. He was never a general’s personal driver, nor did I claim this. He ran messages around for the HQ. > [@Monty](#): > > I’ll leave aside for now the issue of some junior enlisted member being sent by ship or airplane back and forth across the Pacific from/to an island surrounded by the Japanese in the early days of America’s entry into the Second World War. Many American troops arrived in Australia starting in early 1942, shipped across the Pacific. Something like a million American servicemen were sent to Australia. Strangely, the transport ships went back to get more, carrying sick or injured men on the way back. How did the entire 32nd Infantry Division- for example- get from the USA to fight in Nov 1942 in new Guinea? How about the 1st marine division get from America to Guadalcanal? Did they walk? ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2025, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2331 "2025-06-07T20:37:22Z")
_Poll ([view on site](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2331))_ ---
**Author:** ![Pleonast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pleonast/32/1183_2.png) [@Pleonast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pleonast)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2025, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2332 "2025-06-07T21:20:31Z")
Needs an option: haven’t read anything they’ve posted in years. It’s not worth my time to read their posts. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2025, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2333 "2025-06-07T22:21:08Z")
> [@Pleonast](#): > > Needs an option: haven’t read anything they’ve posted in years. This. 👆 ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2025, 10:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2334 "2025-06-07T22:27:35Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > And what was his rank at the time he got sick? Oh, yes. “Brevet E-8”. > [@DrDeth](#): > > He Volunteered on Dec8 in the Philippines, got Malaria (along with many other GIs), and escaped with the rest of the Army Air Force there to Australia. Later, he served in Mac’s HQ unit where he heard that rumor. He achieved no great rank- brevet E7 was it. (Maybe brevet E8??).   ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2025, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2335 "2025-06-07T22:31:09Z")
But wait… > [@DrDeth](#): > > Nope,. Brevet E4,. which was his permanent rank, he was later breveted to E6 and other ranks as needed- Never mind that _breveting_ to enlisted ranks wasn’t even a thing, and even the actual historical practice of breveting to higher commissioned ranks within the US military was no longer a thing by WWII (although apparently brought back in a limited context in recent years, although honestly it reads more like the Army’s term for what the Navy calls “spot promotion” and which has been a thing for a long time). ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2025, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2336 "2025-06-07T22:49:10Z")
E-8 didn’t even exist until the late-Fifties. > **[United States Army enlisted rank insignia | Timeline of changes](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_enlisted_rank_insignia#Timeline_of_changes)** > > This table shows changes in insignia, from 1905 until the present. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2025, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2337 "2025-06-07T23:01:58Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Never mind that _breveting_ to enlisted ranks wasn’t even a thing, Not _within_ enlisted ranks, no, but there had been breveting from noncommissioned to commissioned officers. > **[Battlefield promotion | United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlefield_promotion#United_States)** > > A battlefield promotion is awarded to enlisted soldiers who are promoted to a higher enlisted rank during combat or combat conditions. The US Army discontinued this practice after the Vietnam War with the centralized promotion system, but in 2009 decided to again allow such promotions. "Battlefield promotions are predicated on extraordinary performance of duties while serving in combat or under combat conditions." It can be used to promote an individual soldier one grade, to at most staff ser No... > **[Brevet (military) | United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brevet_(military)#United_States)** > > The Articles of War adopted by the United States Army in 1776 and slightly revised in 1806 established the use and significance of brevet ranks or awards in the U.S. Army. When first used, a brevet commission in the U.S. Army entitled the officer to be identified by a higher rank, but the award had limited effect on the right to higher command or pay. A brevet rank had no effect within the officer's current unit. When assigned duty at the brevet rank by the U.S. President, such an officer would c... Watch Doc now try to claim that dear old Dad had really been an officer. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2025, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2338 "2025-06-07T23:49:14Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Not _within_ enlisted ranks, no, but there had been breveting from noncommissioned to commissioned officers. Let me be very clear: arguably, I am being pedantic. I am very well aware that there have been various temporary, positional, operational, wartime, and/or battlefield promotion schemes in the US Army and the US military at large throughout its history, continuing into the present. I myself was selected for a spot promotion to Lieutenant Commander in the Navy by virtue of the position I had received orders to occupy. I am just as well aware that the practice of breveting was even one of those mechanisms. Though never, so far as I know, to (I used that precise word for a reason) enlisted ranks, and not in any case during WWII. Most charitably, the **Doctor** here is just confused as to the precise mechanism by which his father was or purported to be temporarily advanced. But I’m not interested in being charitable here. Not when it comes down to being pedantic with someone who, as a review of this thread itself will show, is himself notoriously pedantic. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2025, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2339 "2025-06-07T23:52:06Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Let me be very clear: arguably, I am being pedantic Of course. > [@](#): > > I am very well aware that there have been various temporary, positional, operational, wartime, and/or battlefield promotion schemes Some of us are not. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2025, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2340 "2025-06-08T00:24:13Z")
Oh, dear; what yarn is being spun this time? Not that anyone else really cares… Really, Doc, let it go. This dance routine you do whenever certain Dopers mention your father is getting old. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2025, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2341 "2025-06-08T00:40:10Z")
> [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Never mind that _breveting_ to enlisted ranks wasn’t even a thing, and even the actual historical practice of breveting to higher commissioned ranks within the US military was no longer a thing by WWII (although apparently brought back in a limited context in recent years, although honestly it reads more like the Army’s term for what the Navy calls “spot promotion” and which has been a thing for a long time). Maybe, but this says “Yes, the US Army did utilize temporary ranks for Non-Commissioned Officers (NCOs) during World War II.” But if the correct term isnt “brevet” and is instead “spot promotion” or " temporary” it is the same thing. > [@DrDeth](#): > > Later, he served in Mac’s HQ unit where he heard that rumor. He achieved no great rank- brevet E7 was it. (Maybe brevet E8??). Right LATER. Monty lies again by saying > [@Monty](#): > > And what was his rank at the time he got sick? Oh, yes. “Brevet E-8”. When he got sick and was invalided out- because i never claimed that. I said he was made a E4, then later came back and got other temporary ranks- never confirmed. and a LOT of US servicemen were invalided out due to Malaria. > [@Skywatcher](#): > > E-8 didn’t even exist until the late-Fifties. > [@DrDeth](#): > > (Maybe brevet E8??). See, that was a question. > [@Skywatcher](#): > > Watch Doc now try to claim that dear old Dad had really been an officer. Nope, NCO all the way. > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Let me be very clear: arguably, I am being pedantic. I am very well aware that there have been various temporary, positional, operational, wartime, and/or battlefield promotion schemes in the US Army and the US military at large throughout its history, continuing into the present. Especially during WW2 in a war theatre.. > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Most charitably, the **Doctor** here is just confused as to the precise mechanism by which his father was or purported to be temporarily advanced. I was never in the military. All I know is that Dad had pictures of him wearing E6 stripes while in the pacific. But his permanent rank was only E4, which is on his tombstone- which I quoted. However, when he joined the National Gd. he was made E6 based upon his WW2 service. Still, just a NCO. So Monty here lied when he claimed I said my Dad was a general’s personal chauffeur. He was not. Monty then lied > [@Monty](#): > > And what was his rank at the time he got sick? Oh, yes. “Brevet E-8”. And I had said he was E4 when he got sick, and later had some temporary ranks- E7. I guessed he might have been E8?? All I know is that he wore 3 stripes and a rocker in some photos and complained that none of his temporary promotions were ever made permanent. But as far as E8 not being a rank- > [@Skywatcher](#): > > E-8 didn’t even exist until the late-Fifties. The highest enlisted rank given there is Master Sgt. What rate is Master sgt (today)? E8 You are thinking of Sgt Major, E9, which yes- didnt exist back in WW2. But they didnt use E ratings they used Pay grades 1 (highest) to 7 lowest. Grade 1 was master sgt and First Sgt. Grade 1 would be an E8 today. > **[United States Army enlisted rank insignia of World War II](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_enlisted_rank_insignia_of_World_War_II)** > > The U.S. Army enlisted rank insignia that was used during World War II differs from the current system. The color scheme used for the insignia's chevron design was defined as golden olive drab chevrons on a dark blue-black wool background for wear on "winter" uniform dress coats and dress shirts or silvery-khaki chevrons on a dark blue-black cotton background for wear on the various types of field jackets and "winter" uniform fatigue shirts. An unauthorized variant that nevertheless saw wide u... > [@Skywatcher](#): > > Really, Doc, let it go. This dance routine you do whenever certain Dopers mention your father is getting old. Look, TB is a coward and a liar, by attacking my Father in a Pit Thread. He had no business doing that. So, if someone attacked your family in a Pit thread, you’d let it go? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2025, 12:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2342 "2025-06-08T00:48:12Z")
I can only say one thing in response to that: “You cannot reason a person out of a position he did not reason himself into in the first place.” - Jonathan Swift [People are free to believe what they want.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pacific-war-mcarthur-vs-nimitz-who-was-right/296959/88) I don’t really give enough of a shit to argue with anyone who clearly has made up their mind. ---
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2025, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2343 "2025-06-08T00:49:06Z")
This thread is getting tedious. It used to be more fun. I’ve been on the verge of putting him on ignore for ages. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [June 8, 2025, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/2344 "2025-06-08T00:59:38Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > [People are free to believe what they want.](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/pacific-war-mcarthur-vs-nimitz-who-was-right/296959/88) I don’t really give a shit. Where i said- \*\*Honestly your story sounds believable to me, but _the hypocrisy is strong in this one._ **I am willing to accept your dad stories, OK?** [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971.md?page=116) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971.md?page=118)