# I pit DrDeth **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 28, 2021, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971 "2021-02-28T19:52:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 72
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1425 "2023-09-26T21:52:37Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > All that being said, the _language_ is still racist. Just used with non-racist intent by the filmmakers in this context. I think using racist language or imagery in art is a whole other discussion. It is needed though. And not just to lampoon racism…it can be sexism or war or whatever. Each piece is judged on its own merits (or lack of them). ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1426 "2023-09-26T22:25:15Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > With Huckleberry Finn, the term is being used in a racist way. But not in a _hateful_ way. Finn is good friends with Jim and I never got the feeling that there was any ill-intent behind it. But the term itself is absolutely, completely racist. It’s boiling down his entire identity by race by making it part of his name Twain was depicting racism, in part by using racist language. He does not intend it to be processed as acceptable—quite the opposite. Jim is the most decent man in the novel, heroic, compassionate, and loyal. The primary conflict in the book is Huck’s struggle in reconciling Jim’s humanity with the societal norms that say slaves are subhuman and those who aid in their escape are damned to hell. And Twain resolves that conflict when Huck decides he’s going to free Jim, even if it means hell. Yes, he decides that he must save Jim, though he’ll go to hell for it. And it is _crystal_ clear that Twain portrays this as the righteous choice. Jim is a man and a true-hearted friend and deserving of Huck’s loyalty. _Huckleberry Finn_ is the antithesis of a racist novel. It accomplishes that in part by depicting racist behavior. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1427 "2023-09-26T22:33:27Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > _Huckleberry Finn_ is the antithesis of a racist novel. It accomplishes that in part by depicting racist behavior. Sure, I was specifically addressing the characters of Huck and Jim, but your overall point about the novel is spot on. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1428 "2023-09-26T22:36:51Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > Sure, I was specifically addressing the characters of Huck and Jim, but your overall point about the novel is spot on. Oh, I got that. I was more addressing the question in the thread over whether or not the n-word in _Huck Finn_ is racist. Well, yeah, but it’s more nuanced than that. It’s racist behavior depicted to condemn racism. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1429 "2023-09-26T22:38:16Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Well, yeah, but it’s more nuanced than that. It’s racist behavior depicted to condemn racism. And I _think_ that’s what DrDeth was trying to say as well, but as I said before maybe I’m being too generous in my assumptions. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1430 "2023-09-26T22:41:14Z")
Channeling my inner DrDeth; So, you all agree that _Huck Finn_ should be banned! ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1431 "2023-09-26T22:41:53Z")
😀 Ha!! ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1432 "2023-09-26T22:44:41Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Channeling my inner DrDeth; Don’t forget to also claim that you’ve met Mark Twain’s descendant and so you can quote an authority on the matter. And if anyone doubts you then they’re insulting Twain. ---
**Author:** ![wguy123](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wguy123/32/3161_2.png) [@wguy123](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wguy123)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2023, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1433 "2023-09-26T23:59:28Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > The Nword? Not really all that racist. > Karen, as a pejorative? OFF LIMITS!!! Spot on! ---
**Author:** ![Beckdawrek](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beckdawrek/32/3647_2.png) [@Beckdawrek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beckdawrek)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1434 "2023-09-27T00:27:05Z")
RESOLVED, even ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1435 "2023-09-27T00:53:27Z")
Resolved: there’s no way he’s not trolling ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1436 "2023-09-27T01:54:00Z")
> [@Stratocaster](#): > > Jim is the most decent man in the novel, heroic, compassionate, and loyal. Ideal attributes for a slave, really. Or, to make my point more directly, just because a person from a socioeconomically disadvantaged racial group is portrayed positively, doesn’t mean the depiction isn’t racist. See also “Mammy.” ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1437 "2023-09-27T01:56:16Z")
I encourage you to read the book. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1438 "2023-09-27T01:56:55Z")
Oh, for fuck’s sake, I read the book! In g-damn middle school. Asswipe. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 2:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1439 "2023-09-27T02:02:06Z")
I’m sorry I lost my temper. ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1440 "2023-09-27T02:03:41Z")
No worries. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1441 "2023-09-27T02:09:03Z")
As an aside, a good article about Samuel Clemens’s evolving thoughts on slavery and other issues can be found here: [https://stanfordmag.org/contents/mark-twain-s-inconvenient-truths#:~:text=In%20his%20“schoolboy%20days%2C”,which%20he%20had%20grown%20up](https://stanfordmag.org/contents/mark-twain-s-inconvenient-truths#:~:text=In%20his%20%E2%80%9Cschoolboy%20days%2C%E2%80%9D,which%20he%20had%20grown%20up). ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1442 "2023-09-27T05:20:06Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > > [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > > > Channeling my inner DrDeth; > > Don’t forget to also claim that you’ve met Mark Twain’s descendant and so you can quote an authority on the matter. Also, your father personally borrowed MacArthur’s stealth submarine to rescue Twain by flying him out of King Arthur’s court. ---
**Author:** ![Knowed\_Out](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/knowed_out/32/7380_2.png) [@Knowed\_Out](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knowed_Out)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 10:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1443 "2023-09-27T10:37:23Z")
And if it didn’t happen, it could have! ---
**Author:** ![Stratocaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stratocaster/32/16393_2.png) [@Stratocaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stratocaster)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2023, 10:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971/1444 "2023-09-27T10:54:18Z")
Very good read, thanks for sharing. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971.md?page=71) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-drdeth/933971.md?page=73)