# I pit Ethos water (Starbucks) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 4, 2007, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821 "2007-12-04T19:59:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2007, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/61 "2007-12-06T04:08:34Z")
> [@Aioua](#): > > Oi. First of all, starbucks employees are neither paid minimum wage nor inexperienced. I have three friends who work for them right now. Also, around here there are plenty of wannabe baristas and about a million espresso stands, so starbucks has plenty of experienced people to choose from. Starbucks uses espresso machines where the espresso shots themselves are pulled by pressing a button, and a thermometer built into the steam wand automatically shuts off the steamer when it gets to a preset temperature. Not to mention that at Starbucks hot drinks are generally not made one at a time (at a busy location, anyway, and they’re _all_ busy, aren’t they?); one huge pitcher of steamed milk for lattes (and mochas, etc.) sits at the ready, another for cappucinos. Whoever is manning the espresso machine simply puts the cup under the espresso thing, pushes a button for the number of shots, adds ingredients if need be and then pours already-steamed milk out of a mug. (Yes, _somebody_ steams it, but it’s not enough individual attention paid to one drink for me. YMMV. And the point is that this means Starbucks employees never learn how to pull an espresso shot and get decidedly less experience with steaming milk for individual drinks, which is a key skill in the barista world.) Frozen drinks are made exactly to specifications, with no skill involved. (Granted, that may well be true of many local places as well, but at least there’s usually some element of local (at that location) creativity involved, rather than just copying the recipe from a corporate manual.) I think you’ll find that the finer local coffeehouses are picking up talent from Starbucks and teaching them actual barista skills, not the other way around. That’s how it works in San Diego, anyway. > [@Aioua](#): > > And where did I say that starbucks was the only coffeeshop, ever? I know what a coffeeshop is. I was trying to explain to the other posters who seemed to think the only thing you got for your 3.50 was a cup a coffee. I’m sorry I said “starbucks” instead of “starbucks and your other local coffeeshops”. Actually, what you said was that Starbucks was one of the few (perhaps even the only) places to go hang out for four hours after only spending four dollars. My point is that a cursory search on Yelp can uncover dozens of such places in any major city, Seattle especially, many of which have higher quality and priced the same if not lower. If you meant coffee houses in general are the only places where you can do that, I’m sure you’ll excuse me if I failed to pick that up telepathically–and you’d still be wrong, as any major city will have plenty of bookstores where one can sit around for four hours and read without spending a dime. Either way, if Starbucks is your default way to do that, I would suggest that you’re missing out. ---
**Author:** ![Aioua](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/87869e/32.png) [@Aioua](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aioua)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2007, 5:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/62 "2007-12-06T05:34:40Z")
[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect] Starbucks uses espresso machines where the espresso shots themselves are pulled by pressing a button, and a thermometer built into the steam wand automatically shuts off the steamer when it gets to a preset temperature. Not to mention that at Starbucks hot drinks are generally not made one at a time (at a busy location, anyway, and they’re _all_ busy, aren’t they?); one huge pitcher of steamed milk for lattes (and mochas, etc.) sits at the ready, another for cappucinos. Whoever is manning the espresso machine simply puts the cup under the espresso thing, pushes a button for the number of shots, adds ingredients if need be and then pours already-steamed milk out of a mug. (Yes, _somebody_ steams it, but it’s not enough individual attention paid to one drink for me. YMMV. And the point is that this means Starbucks employees never learn how to pull an espresso shot and get decidedly less experience with steaming milk for individual drinks, which is a key skill in the barista world.) Frozen drinks are made exactly to specifications, with no skill involved. (Granted, that may well be true of many local places as well, but at least there’s usually some element of local (at that location) creativity involved, rather than just copying the recipe from a corporate manual.) I think you’ll find that the finer local coffeehouses are picking up talent from Starbucks and teaching them actual barista skills, not the other way around. That’s how it works in San Diego, anyway. Actually, what you said was that Starbucks was one of the few (perhaps even the only) places to go hang out for four hours after only spending four dollars. My point is that a cursory search on Yelp can uncover dozens of such places in any major city, Seattle especially, many of which have higher quality and priced the same if not lower. If you meant coffee houses in general are the only places where you can do that, I’m sure you’ll excuse me if I failed to pick that up telepathically–and you’d still be wrong, as any major city will have plenty of bookstores where one can sit around for four hours and read without spending a dime. Either way, if Starbucks is your default way to do that, I would suggest that you’re missing out. [/QUOTE] Actually, what I said was: > [@me](#): > > 1. It’s a nice place. You go there to sit and talk. Maybe you hate the atmosphere, but if you’re busy characterizing all the patrons as “yuppie assholes and primadonna bitches” I can see how you’d find it less than relaxing. There aren’t a lot of places you can go and hang out for four hours after only spending four dollars. That is what starbucks is selling, not coffee. I’m not sure where you’re getting the “only” vibe. They’re aren’t a lot of places where you can go just hang out. I stand by that. One of those places is at coffeeshops. Book stores are another, like you said. I don’t think that was too hard to pick up from what I wrote. I’ll concede to you that starbucks’ espresso isn’t as good as indie espresso (most of the time, I’ve had some crappy espresso, let me tell you). I just get annoyed when people get all up ons starbucks while being seemingly ignorant of the differences between drip coffee and espresso, and of coffehouse culture in general. ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2007, 7:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/63 "2007-12-06T07:23:16Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] I did not state a reason for not liking it. [/QUOTE] No, you and other posters decided to jump on a moral high horse based solely on where people buy coffee. It’s pathetic that you or anyone else could be so shallow, self-absorbed and simplistic in your thought processes. ---
**Author:** ![Madd\_Maxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Madd\_Maxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Madd_Maxx)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2007, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/64 "2007-12-06T17:58:17Z")
Wow, who would have thought that different people have different tastes when it comes to something as varied and complex as coffee? You really do learn somthing everyday. Consider my ignorance fought! ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2007, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/65 "2007-12-06T19:13:02Z")
So, I don’t come back to this thread for a while and I’m jumped on for my comment about the quality of Starbucks coffee and its patrons but no one addresses my comment about the hypocrisy of selling bottled water to help people impacted by an environmental issue. Selling bottled water to help people who need clean water is like someone buying carbon offsets: you are not helping to solve the problem in any substantial way and, in fact, you are still contributing to it. According to information from the [Natural Resources Defense Council](http://www.nrdc.org/water/drinking/qbw.asp#environment) > [@](#): > > In 2006, the equivalent of 2 billion half-liter bottles of water were shipped to U.S. ports, creating thousands of tons of global warming pollution and other air pollution. In New York City alone, the transportation of bottled water from western Europe released an estimated 3,800 tons of global warming pollution into the atmosphere. In California, 18 million gallons of bottled water were shipped in from Fiji in 2006, producing about 2,500 tons of global warming pollution. > > And while the bottles come from far away, most of them end up close to home – in a landfill. Most bottled water comes in recyclable PET plastic bottles, but only about 13 percent of the bottles we use get recycled. In 2005, 2 million tons of plastic water bottles ended up clogging landfills instead of getting recycled. Or how about [this](http://www.valleywater.org/tapvbottle/): > [@](#): > > In addition to the misconception about health benefits, there are other, more serious, problems associated with the production and consumption of bottled water. According to the Beverage Marketing Corporation, Americans bought a total of 31.2 billion liters of water in 2006. The Pacific Institute estimates that **producing the bottles for American consumption required more than 17 million barrels of oil** , not including the energy for transportation. Bottling the water produced more than 2.5 million tons of carbon dioxide. **It took 3 liters of water to produce 1 liter of bottled water.** > > Once the bottled water is produced and consumed, the plastic bottle must be disposed of, which results in even more issues for our environment. The Container Recycling Institute reports that **86 percent of plastic water bottles used in the United States become garbage or litter**. Incinerating the used bottles produces toxic byproducts and buried water bottles can take up to 1,000 years to biodegrade. For those who think recycling is the answer, almost 40 percent of the polyethylene terephthalate (PET) bottles that were deposited for recycling in the United States in 2004 were actually exported, sometimes to as far away as China, thus adding to the resources used by this product. Bolding mine. You want to help provide clean drinking water to people in need? Try this[charity.](http://www.charityis.org/) From their faq: > [@](#): > > Q: What is charity: water? > A: It’s the first initiative of charity: focused on the global water crisis. Its aim is to educate the public and create greater awareness of the world’s 1.1 billion without access to clean water and basic sanitation. And raise money to fund efficient and effective projects that do something about the crisis. The goal of charity: water is to give everyone on the planet access to clean and safe water. > > Q: What’s this bottle and why is it $20? > A: True, it may be the most expensive bottle of water you’ll ever buy, but there’s nothing special about the water or the packaging. It’s what the money does that’s special. **100 percent of the proceeds directly fund clean water well projects in Africa**. Just one bottle of water can give someone clean water for 20 years. Bolding mine. 100%. Look at that again. 100%. Not 2.9% which is what Starbucks contributes per bottle. You don’t want to buy water but still want to help out? Try the [Clean Water Fund.](http://www.cleanwaterfund.org/about/) Or [WaterAid.](http://www.wateraid.org/) Either of those groups leave Starbucks in the dust. Their Ethos water is another example of drive-by charity: Buy something that has a label saying that part of your proceeds go to the save the lemmings foundation and you feel good without having to actually do anything. Starbucks rang the bell of charity, you salivated at the idea of helping without having to get dirty, and you got a reward of a clean conscience as you walk away with a piece of plastic that will be around after your great, great grandchildren are long dead. Make the effort of going out and helping the causes by either doing the work or participating in the program. You can’t travel to Darfur to dig wells? Then actually research the organizations, communicate with them and contribute. Don’t just write a check. Actually talk with them and show that you give a damn. Every year I participate in the St. Baldrick’s shave-a-thon to help fight children’s cancer. I can’t work in a lab but I’ll raise money for them by getting my head shaved. Seems stupid and inconsequential in comparison with children’s cancer but I also help with the event planning and set up. And as for my comments about the clientele at Starbucks, I apologize if I offended anyone. When I need a cup of coffee in the morning, I want hot coffee that tastes good and doesn’t cost a lot. I don’t sit in a coffee house for 4 hours reading the paper and working on my laptop. I take the cup on the train or to my office. I don’t want whipped cream, chocolate sprinkles, amaretto flavor or calling a cup “tall” when it is actually a small. I don’t need comfy chairs, piped in jazz or wi-fi. My ideal coffee place is a diner with a bottomless cup of joe where I can sit on a stool at the counter to get served. To paraphrase Nick the bartender from _It’s a Wonderful Life_, “Hey look, mister - we serve hot coffee in here for men who want to wake up fast, and we don’t need any characters around to give the joint “atmosphere”. Is that clear, or do I have to slip you my left for a convincer?” ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2007, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/66 "2007-12-06T20:36:32Z")
[QUOTE=Slypork] calling a cup “tall” when it is actually a small. [/QUOTE] They do have a “small” size. It’s called a “short”. ---
**Author:** ![Slypork](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9fc29f/32.png) [@Slypork](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slypork)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2007, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/67 "2007-12-06T21:01:24Z")
[QUOTE=chaoticbear] They do have a “small” size. It’s called a “short”. [/QUOTE] AAAAGGGHHHHH!!! Small. Medium. Large. Is it that fucking difficult? I like [Dave Barry’s](http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/10/08/features/bar9.php) take on this pretentious naming bullshit. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2007, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/68 "2007-12-06T21:17:06Z")
[QUOTE=Slypork] AAAAGGGHHHHH!!! Small. Medium. Large. Is it that fucking difficult? I like [Dave Barry’s](http://www.iht.com/articles/2004/10/08/features/bar9.php) take on this pretentious naming bullshit. 😛 [/QUOTE] EVery once in a while I go into Starbuck’s or Seattle’s Best to get a Latte, but I refuse to call the sizes by those crazy names…I can’t remember if grande is the medium or the large, and I can’t even pronounce venti (is the e like in “pen” or “pond?”). I just order a medium hazelnut latte. The nice people at the register always say, "grande (or venti, whichever it is) hazelnut latte…that will be (insert huge sum of money here). Works like a charm. ---
**Author:** ![DiosaBellissima](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a8b319/32.png) [@DiosaBellissima](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DiosaBellissima)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2007, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/69 "2007-12-06T21:19:17Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] EVery once in a while I go into Starbuck’s or Seattle’s Best to get a Latte, but I refuse to call the sizes by those crazy names…I can’t remember if grande is the medium or the large, and I can’t even pronounce venti (is the e like in “pen” or “pond?”). I just order a medium hazelnut latte. The nice people at the register always say, "grande (or venti, whichever it is) hazelnut latte…that will be (insert huge sum of money here). Works like a charm. [/QUOTE] While you’re within your every right to call things whatever you please, I’ve never seen a Starbucks that didn’t have all three cup sizes with the names right under them directly next to the register. And there is no e in pond. . . so, I’m not sure what you were going for there. It’s “Ven-tee”. ---
**Author:** ![Litoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/9f8e36/32.png) [@Litoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Litoris)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2007, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/70 "2007-12-06T22:43:17Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] EVery once in a while I go into Starbuck’s or Seattle’s Best to get a Latte, but I refuse to call the sizes by those crazy names…I can’t remember if grande is the medium or the large, and I can’t even pronounce venti (is the e like in “pen” or “pond?”). I just order a medium hazelnut latte. The nice people at the register always say, "grande (or venti, whichever it is) hazelnut latte…that will be (insert huge sum of money here). Works like a charm. [/QUOTE] “e” in “pond”? Colour me confused. You know, I can understand a bit of confusion over pronunciation of foreign words, is it “grand” or “grahnday” but the one that irks me is all these moronic Southerners who insist on ordering a “Ventay” ARGH!!! ---
**Author:** ![chaoticbear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@chaoticbear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chaoticbear)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2007, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/71 "2007-12-06T23:33:14Z")
[QUOTE=Litoris] “e” in “pond”? Colour me confused. You know, I can understand a bit of confusion over pronunciation of foreign words, is it “grand” or “grahnday” but the one that irks me is all these moronic Southerners who insist on ordering a “Ventay” ARGH!!! [/QUOTE] I think that they were referring to the “en” nasal sound from French, like “le vent”. Anyway, the sizes are perfectly descriptive. Short=small, Tall=a size larger than Short, Grande=large, Venti=20 oz. What’s not to understand? ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2007, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/72 "2007-12-06T23:36:48Z")
[QUOTE=DiosaBellissima] And there is no e in pond. . . so, I’m not sure what you were going for there. It’s “Ven-tee”. [/QUOTE] > [@Litoris](#): > > “e” in “pond”? Colour me confused. Pronounce the word “genre.” ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2007, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/73 "2007-12-06T23:37:05Z")
[QUOTE=chaoticbear] I think that they were referring to the “en” nasal sound from French, like “le vent”. Anyway, the sizes are perfectly descriptive. Short=small, Tall=a size larger than Short, Grande=large, Venti=20 oz. What’s not to understand? [/QUOTE] What’s wrong with small, medium, large, extra-large? Whatever. I say “medium coffee”, if asked, I answer, “bold”, and without fail I get what I want. If they don’t make a point of educating me on their vernacular, they even get tipped! ---
**Author:** ![kayT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayt/32/3633_2.png) [@kayT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayT)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2007, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/74 "2007-12-06T23:45:01Z")
Sometimes it doesn’t pay to be successful; seems to me like Starbucks and Walmart get jumped on every time for being big and successful so everyone starts hunting for rocks to throw at them. Or is that my imagination? ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/75 "2007-12-07T08:00:11Z")
[QUOTE=Slypork] So, I don’t come back to this thread for a while and I’m jumped on for my comment about the quality of Starbucks coffee and its patrons but no one addresses my comment about the hypocrisy of selling bottled water to help people impacted by an environmental issue. [/QUOTE] Maybe because your less than insightful commentary on bottled water wasn’t interesting enough to rate a mention? Despite the fact that I drink coffee from Starbucks, I am more than aware of the issues surrounding bottled water. I’m sure this will come as a complete suprise to you but you’ve got absolutely nothing of value to add to that knowledge. But I get it, you’re a real American who drinks real coffee, none of that fancy stuff for you, none of that foreign language lingo, either. In fact, you’re such a real, salt of the earth guy you don’t even want kids to get cancer. If Starbucks held a “Drink an expresso to fight childhood diseases” fundraiser would your head explode from cognitive dissonance? This kind of vapid, knee-jerk reaction is such a pet peeve of mine. During the last election, the GOP called Kerry and his supporters “latte liberals”. Leaving aside whether Kerry would have made a good president, it is pitiful that what type of coffe a person prefers became a talking point during a presidential election and is the reason why, whenever I turn on the news, I think this world gets exactly what it deserves. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 8:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/76 "2007-12-07T08:07:45Z")
Espresso. ---
**Author:** ![valleyofthedolls](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/a4c791/32.png) [@valleyofthedolls](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/valleyofthedolls)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 8:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/77 "2007-12-07T08:10:41Z")
[QUOTE=Hostile Dialect] Espresso. [/QUOTE] sorry, my bad…didn’t proof before posting. ---
**Author:** ![Sarahfeena](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sarahfeena/32/519_2.png) [@Sarahfeena](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sarahfeena)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/78 "2007-12-07T13:52:02Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Pronounce the word “genre.” [/QUOTE] There you go…is it pronounced like in “pen” or like in “genre?” I can’t tell if it’s supposed to be pronounced with some fake-y French/Italian accent (like “grande” is pronounced, for that matter), or like a midwesterner like me would pronounce it. And, **Diosa** , I virtually always go through the drive-thru, and they don’t have the cups displayed out there. ---
**Author:** ![fachverwirrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/94ad74/32.png) [@fachverwirrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fachverwirrt)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/79 "2007-12-07T14:20:13Z")
[QUOTE=Sarahfeena] There you go…is it pronounced like in “pen” or like in “genre?” I can’t tell if it’s supposed to be pronounced with some fake-y French/Italian accent (like “grande” is pronounced, for that matter), or like a midwesterner like me would pronounce it. And, **Diosa** , I virtually always go through the drive-thru, and they don’t have the cups displayed out there. [/QUOTE] I’m not sure what a French/Italian accent is; they’re quite different. At any rate, both “grande”(gron-day) and “venti”(ven-tee) are Italian. A midwestern accent is just fine; I’m quite sure the baristas won’t notice the difference. On that note, I have never ordered a “grande”, “venti”, “tall”, or Bread Company’s (Panera to the rest of the world) even more idiotically named “largo” sized coffee. I order small medium or large (ok, large), and have never had an issue. They just give me my coffee without comment. ---
**Author:** ![Mellivora\_capensis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mellivora\_capensis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mellivora_capensis)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2007, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821/80 "2007-12-07T14:47:44Z")
[QUOTE=Q.E.D.] Pronounce the word “genre.” [/QUOTE] I hereby pronounce the word “genre” dead. TOD 16h44 SA time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-ethos-water-starbucks/428821.md?page=5)