# I pit every fool who claims "I didn't know it was loaded!" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 24, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939 "2014-07-24T14:48:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Antinor01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecae2f/32.png) [@Antinor01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antinor01)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/21 "2014-07-24T20:36:46Z")
> [@Dangerosa](#): > > Sex ed, first aid and gun safety at regular intervals starting YOUNGER. In Kindergarten its “good touch/bad touch, don’t touch a gun, and call 911” By high school all Americans should know how to use a condom - AND that you still need backup birthcontrol, gun safety, including how to handle a gun if you need to even if you don’t own one, and how to perform CPR. I’m not sure gun safety is really something to spend time on in school. Gun ownership has been in rapid decline (half of US households to under 1/3 from 1973 to 2010 and personal ownership from 29% to 20) but nearly everyone will have sex. If it was something optional or in areas with high ownership rates, then I could see it. I’m not invested enough to care very strongly, but I’m not sure there’s a real point these days. ---
**Author:** ![Ranger\_Jeff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranger_jeff/32/2065_2.png) [@Ranger\_Jeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranger_Jeff)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/22 "2014-07-24T21:11:48Z")
I submit that a break action shotgun that’s open and I can see daylight through the barrels can be unloaded as long as it remains open. As for a pump action, it’s loaded until the 3rd pump where it doesn’t eject a shell. Then it’s unloaded unless it leaves my hands. And the sound of racking the pump is all the warning anyone should need. Or get. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/23 "2014-07-24T21:33:06Z")
> [@Ranger\_Jeff](#): > > I submit that a break action shotgun that’s open and I can see daylight through the barrels can be unloaded as long as it remains open. As for a pump action, it’s loaded until the 3rd pump where it doesn’t eject a shell. Then it’s unloaded unless it leaves my hands. > > And the sound of racking the pump is all the warning anyone should need. Or get. Well, yeah, but you still wouldn’t point them at anyone and pull the trigger. ---
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/24 "2014-07-24T21:43:05Z")
The thing is, you would need enough gun training so that it’s second nature to behave in a responsible manner. Intellectually we all know not to look down the barrel of a gun, but can you completely suppress that instinct so you don’t do it naturally? One time I was using a nail gun and it jammed. Without thinking, I turned it over to see what was wrong with it. In a split second I realized that was the wrong thing to do, but the realization came after it was pointed at my face. You would need enough gun training so those incorrect default behaviors are completely changed. It’s not enough to to take a few classes. You would need to be put through extensive training so that your base instincts don’t take over in a stressful situation. And even then, there’s no predicting how you’ll act when you’re in a panic state and your primitive brain takes over. Or when you’re so mad you’re seeing red. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/25 "2014-07-24T21:53:14Z")
As **Andros** said > [@](#): > > As I was taught, and as I have taught my child, my spouse, and several others: > > Rule 1: The weapon is always loaded. > > Rule 2: Nope, it’s still loaded. That’s how I was taught and it sure as Hell prevents a LOT of accidents. Forget all those other rules about “is it pointed in a safe direction?”, etc. Any firearm is _ **always loaded** _. ---
**Author:** ![ryan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a8b319/32.png) [@ryan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ryan)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/26 "2014-07-24T21:57:49Z")
1-All guns are always loaded. 2-Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. 3-Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target. 4-Be sure of your target and what is beyond it. I will amend rule 1 to exempt a firearm that I personally have rendered unable to fire, by removing the bolt, breaking open the action or partially disassembled . ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/27 "2014-07-24T22:02:53Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > Area man’s anecdote confirms his own strongly held belief, news at 11. So what’s the best way of not shooting people you don’t want to shoot? Because in my view, not pointing guns at people and pulling the trigger is a pretty good way. Even if the gun isn’t loaded. Maybe you’ve got a better way? ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/28 "2014-07-24T22:09:34Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > So what’s the best way of not shooting people you don’t want to shoot? Because in my view, not pointing guns at people and pulling the trigger is a pretty good way. Even if the gun isn’t loaded. > > Maybe you’ve got a better way? Outlaw fingers. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/29 "2014-07-24T22:59:58Z")
> [@andros](#): > > Maybe I just have a big hammer and everything looks like a nail. But I see this as yet another argument for mandatory safety training. Mandatory to graduate at school. This does two things: it makes children less likely to do something stupid if they find a gun without waiting for them to purchase one themselves, and it makes it impossible for anti-gun retards to sabotage the mandatory safety training as a way to ban guns. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/30 "2014-07-24T23:13:39Z")
And everyone was playing so nicely… ---
**Author:** ![toofs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/4491bb/32.png) [@toofs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toofs)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/31 "2014-07-24T23:25:49Z")
She won’t do that again. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/32 "2014-07-24T23:33:12Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Mandatory to graduate at school. This does two things: it makes children less likely to do something stupid if they find a gun without waiting for them to purchase one themselves, and it makes it impossible for anti-gun retards to sabotage the mandatory safety training as a way to ban guns. It would be the only class no one misses in any East New York (rough Brooklyn neighborhood for you non-NYers) high school. Written words being unable to properly render sarcasm, understand that I find this idea far too broad (and pretty unworkable, unless you want to see every NYC HS student armed when they steal the weapons from school - even if they were rendered unusable. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2014, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/33 "2014-07-24T23:55:16Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > It would be the only class no one misses in any East New York (rough Brooklyn neighborhood for you non-NYers) high school. > > Written words being unable to properly render sarcasm, understand that I find this idea far too broad (and pretty unworkable, unless you want to see every NYC HS student armed when they steal the weapons from school - even if they were rendered unusable. Why on Earth would you want to use real guns? The whole point of the class is that you suspect they are not yet competent to be trusted around real guns. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/34 "2014-07-25T00:03:43Z")
NRA gun safety course teaches that you always treat a gun as if it was loaded … always. Support the NRA … they’re out there trying to save lives. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/35 "2014-07-25T00:28:01Z")
Since that horse is out of the barn… > [@watchwolf49](#): > > NRA gun safety course teaches that you always treat a gun as if it was loaded … always. > > Support the NRA … they’re out there trying to save lives. If only they were. I might be willing to support them again if that were their focus. I’ll stick to DU and my local groups, whom I actually have respect for. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/36 "2014-07-25T02:57:16Z")
I wonder what % of “accidental” shootings are concealed murders. ---
**Author:** ![Gray\_Ghost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c0e974/32.png) [@Gray\_Ghost](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gray_Ghost)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 3:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/37 "2014-07-25T03:56:11Z")
This is the Renisha McBride case, FYI. Thought there was a thread or two here around the time the shooting happened. The wiki goes into pretty good detail. The homeowner’s quotes are more proof, if any were needed, that you really need to talk to a lawyer before making statements to anyone, should you be involved in a shooting. Otherwise, you end up sounding like this idiot. Not opening a secure door, if you think someone’s trying to break in, would’ve helped too. But this isn’t the run of the mill stupid gunplay case, IMHO. I still agree with the OP though. The four rules aren’t that hard. No excuse for an adult. Suicides too, Lumpy, especially when life insurance is involved. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 4:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/38 "2014-07-25T04:33:33Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > NRA gun safety course teaches that you always treat a gun as if it was loaded … always. > > Support the NRA … they’re out there trying to save lives. Yeah and they also think Eddie Eagle’s “Tell an adult!” training is sufficient, thus showing their complete lack of familiarity with child psychology or common sense. Putting the NRA in charge of gun safety is like having the cigarette industry teach health classes or having Wayne Lapierre spearhead a mental health task force. I’m all for gun safety training, provided it isn’t led by an operation that you shouldn’t trust with dull butter knives. ---
**Author:** ![Locrian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/locrian/32/14146_2.png) [@Locrian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Locrian)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/39 "2014-07-25T06:10:45Z")
> [@August\_West](#): > > Outlaw fingers. That fucking opposable thumb! This has been our doom… ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2014, 7:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/40 "2014-07-25T07:54:28Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Yeah and they also think Eddie Eagle’s “Tell an adult!” training is sufficient, thus showing their complete lack of familiarity with child psychology or common sense. Putting the NRA in charge of gun safety is like having the cigarette industry teach health classes or having Wayne Lapierre spearhead a mental health task force. > I’m all for gun safety training, provided it isn’t led by an operation that you shouldn’t trust with dull butter knives. Gun safety is what the NRA excels at (you’d have to be there). If they’d just back off on the political agenda stuff… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939.md?page=3)