# I pit every fool who claims "I didn't know it was loaded!" **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 24, 2014, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939 "2014-07-24T14:48:54Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2014, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/61 "2014-07-26T16:29:27Z")
As a suggestion, in addition to teaching gun safety (I’m not sure convinced that it has to a real drill-it-into-the-kids’-skulls operation) and the basics of gun operation, make it fun by showing some clips from action movies and pointing out stupid or impossible gun use. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2014, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/62 "2014-07-26T16:37:21Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > You want to teach _kids_ about _guns_ at _GASP_ SCHOOL? Are you crazy? We have enough trouble teaching science, and you want to bring a real gun into a school and let kids handle it? Parents will go stark raving nuts. > > Of course, it’s a great idea. Which is why it will never happen. I just started a thread about the newest NRA video [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=729505), where they suggest that, among other things like government sponsored firing ranges and free ammo for everybody, kids should be required at an early age to take a gun course before going on to the next grade. Not just a gun safety course-a gun _competency_ course. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/63 "2014-07-26T17:45:15Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > You want to teach _kids_ about _guns_ at _GASP_ SCHOOL? Are you crazy? We have enough trouble teaching science, and you want to bring a real gun into a school and let kids handle it? Parents will go stark raving nuts. > > Of course, it’s a great idea. Which is why it will never happen. I don’t know, considering some of the morons I went to school with…😉 (Not that I’m opposed to it in theory, mind you. Just that, well, what are you going to do with the thirteen-year-old who thinks it’s funny to stick a paperclip in the electrical outlet, or the kids who sniff the rubber cement?) ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2014, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/64 "2014-07-26T18:11:53Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > No, I consider forbidding the teaching of certain things because of fear, ideology, or both, comparable ideas. > > Teaching children about the proper thing to do when they come across a firearm and firmly embedding the four rules of firearm safety into their heads will teach most of them care and respect for firearms for a lifetime. Ignoring the problem and letting them figure it out for themselves when they’re older and have no respect for firearm safety will continue to lead to negligent shootings. > > I find it amusing that you couldn’t reason that out for yourself. It’s not that I don’t understand your reasoning, it’s that you made a silly comparison. Guns actually _are_ dangerous, unlike science. They’re designed for killing, and nothing else. The smart, non-ideological thing to do would be to move away from living in a giant gun show. > [@JRDelirious](#): > > … and for another huge chunk (though there surely is at least some overlap) there is no such thing as responsible, safe bearing of firearms other than by police/military. I don’t think it’s that people think there’s no such thing as responsible, safe bearing of arms. It’s that too often it’s not responsible or safe. It might be fine if people only blew their own heads off, but they do it to their friends, family and strangers too. See this thread, for example. Guns are just one of those things, like driving at 150 mph, that are probably safe the majority of the time, but not enough of the time. And their utility only exists when you’re at a higher risk of getting shot. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2014, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/65 "2014-07-26T19:18:15Z")
> [@Bozuit](#): > > It’s not that I don’t understand your reasoning, it’s that you made a silly comparison. Guns actually _are_ dangerous, unlike science. . You don’t think science class can’t be dangerous? Or that science hasn’t been used in dangerous ways? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/66 "2014-07-27T01:04:21Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > You want to teach _kids_ about _guns_ at _GASP_ SCHOOL? Are you crazy? We have enough trouble teaching science, and you want to bring a real gun into a school and let kids handle it? Parents will go stark raving nuts. > > Of course, it’s a great idea. Which is why it will never happen. I don’t think a real gun is necessary for the class to be effective. When students learn about taking care of a baby they don’t use a real baby, and when students learn how to not accidentally fire a gun, they don’t need to use a real gun. A cap gun and detention for any idiot who refuses to treat the class with the appropriate sobriety would suffice. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/67 "2014-07-27T02:31:43Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > When students learn about taking care of a baby they don’t use a real baby “Remember class, your egg is _always_ loaded!” 😃 . ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/68 "2014-07-27T04:44:58Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > I don’t think a real gun is necessary for the class to be effective. When students learn about taking care of a baby they don’t use a real baby, and when students learn how to not accidentally fire a gun, they don’t need to use a real gun. A cap gun and detention for any idiot who refuses to treat the class with the appropriate sobriety would suffice. I don’t care if they de-mil it, put in a non-functional firing pin, whatever, but it pretty much has to be real unless the goal is to simply ensure that they’ll never touch one. The only way to show someone how to confirm a gun is loaded is by using a real gun so they can operate the action and look into the chamber. An actual demonstration is required. Just as driving and _Forza_ are not the same, so it is with firearms and dummy guns. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/69 "2014-07-27T05:14:41Z")
Isn’t this something the kids should learn at home but never do, like sex ed? ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/70 "2014-07-27T15:42:52Z")
> [@MostlyUseless](#): > > I agree with Andros. The gun is ALWAYS ALWAYS loaded… No it isn’t. If the gun is “always loaded,” then there’s no reason to check the chamber after you pick it up. After all, why check the chamber if you “know” it’s loaded? It doesn’t make sense. **Wrong:** “The gun is always loaded.” **Right:** “Always handle and treat the gun _as if it were_ loaded, regardless of whether or not it’s actually loaded.” And _ **always** _ check the chamber after picking up a gun. Here are some (general) steps to take when you simply want to hold/handle/inspect a gun; these may be modified depending on the type of gun: 1. Grab gun. 2. Keep your finger off the trigger. 3. As you’re picking up the gun, turn/rotate your arms and body so that the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction. 4. If the gun has an external safety, engage the safety. 5. With muzzle pointed in a safe direction, and with your finger off the trigger, and with the safety on, remove the magazine. 6. With muzzle pointed in a safe direction, and with your finger off the trigger, check the chamber. If there is a round in the chamber, eject the round. 7. Check the chamber _again_. Be _100% certain_ there is no round in the chamber, and no magazine in the gun. 8. You may now handle/inspect the gun. While doing so, keep the gun pointed in a safe direction and keep your finger off the trigger. To be even more safe, keep the chamber open. ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/71 "2014-07-27T15:50:14Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Mandatory to graduate at school. This does two things: it makes children less likely to do something stupid if they find a gun without waiting for them to purchase one themselves, and it makes it impossible for anti-gun retards to sabotage the mandatory safety training as a way to ban guns. I’m as pro-gun as they come. But be careful what you ask for. Do you _ **really** _ want public school teachers, most of whom are Obama-loving, Democratic-voting, union-loving socialists, teaching your child about firearms? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/72 "2014-07-27T17:18:39Z")
The “I didn’t know it was loaded” excuse is one of ignorance. It would be like doing 60 through a school zone and then telling the cop “I didn’t know it was a school day.” Someone saying “I didn’t know it was loaded” as an excuse means they think it’s okay to point unloaded guns at people. For this excuse to be so common means there’s still a lot of people who think like this. ---
**Author:** ![Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/58956e/32.png) [@Emtar\_KronJonDerSohn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emtar_KronJonDerSohn)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/73 "2014-07-27T19:30:40Z")
When I was a kid we had a school resource officer in every school. Most of what the officer did was give talks and presentations, and you can only teach “stranger danger” so much. Quite a few times he gave presentations on gun safety, even passing a non operational training Glock around the class. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/74 "2014-07-27T20:23:36Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > No it isn’t. If the gun is “always loaded,” then there’s no reason to check the chamber after you pick it up. After all, why check the chamber if you “know” it’s loaded? It doesn’t make sense. > > **Wrong:** “The gun is always loaded.” > > **Right:** “Always handle and treat the gun _as if it were_ loaded, regardless of whether or not it’s actually loaded.” Meh, it’s really just a difference of semantics. Both statements amount to the same thing. (I don’t think using the first statement means you shouldn’t tell people to check the chamber. It’s called a “figure of speech”.) > [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Do you _ **really** _ want public school teachers, most of whom are Obama-loving, Democratic-voting, union-loving socialists, teaching your child about firearms? :dubious: Are you seriously this fucking retarded? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2014, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/75 "2014-07-27T22:55:00Z")
. . . This thread isn’t about paternity suits, is it? :o ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/76 "2014-07-30T18:28:07Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I’m as pro-gun as they come. But be careful what you ask for. Do you _ **really** _ want public school teachers, most of whom are Obama-loving, Democratic-voting, union-loving socialists, teaching your child about firearms? :dubious: Yeah but I doubt the anti-gun teachers are the ones that will be teaching the gun safety class, just like the abstinence only teachers are probably not the ones that end up teaching the sex ed class. ---
**Author:** ![Kimballkid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b5a626/32.png) [@Kimballkid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimballkid)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2014, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/77 "2014-07-30T20:24:39Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Coupla weeks ago I went skeet shooting for the first time. The range guy told me, no joke, to aim at his raised finger, ostensibly so he knew that I knew how to use the shotgun’s iron sights. > > Me: Are you sure? > Him: Yeah, it’s not loaded. > Me: No, really, are you sure? > Him: Yeah, go ahead. > Me: [suspecting this is some kind of trick - if I point the gun at him, even after he tells me to, he’s going to suddenly yell “NEVER point a gun at someone!” and order me off the range] Really? > Him: Yeah, go ahead. > Me: Okay… [making extra-extra sure to keep my fingers away from the trigger and never pointing the gun at his center of mass, I zero on his finger] > Him: [checking my aim] Okay. > Me: You know, this is making me really uncomfortable. > > For the rest of my time there, I was careful to keep the shotgun pointed downrange whenever possible, as the military trained me to do. The range guy probably thought I was being overcautious. > > Dialogue paraphrased from memory - events accurate as described. How many fingers did he have? Did he have to use his toes to count to 10? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/78 "2014-07-31T04:02:28Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Yeah but I doubt the anti-gun teachers are the ones that will be teaching the gun safety class, just like the abstinence only teachers are probably not the ones that end up teaching the sex ed class. Dude, I know plenty of people who voted for Obama, belong to unions, and yet – they own guns. Go figure. Many of them family members. (A lot of my relatives like to go hunting) Stereotypes like that are bullshit. ---
**Author:** ![MacTech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MacTech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MacTech)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2014, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/79 "2014-07-31T23:27:20Z")
> [@ryan](#): > > 1-All guns are always loaded. > 2-Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy. > 3-Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target. > 4-Be sure of your target and what is beyond it. > > I will amend rule 1 to exempt a firearm that I personally have rendered unable to fire, by removing the bolt, breaking open the action or partially disassembled . 1; he violated this one with the “IDKIWL” excuse 2; assuming this wasn’t an attempt to create a murder alibi, MAJOR violation of rule 2, with regrettable end results if the worst kind 3; violated this one too 4; and this one as well The rules are designed to provide nested layers of safety If one rule is broken, the chances of negligent discharge is minimized, violating two or more is when negligence problems occur ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2014, 5:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939/80 "2014-08-01T05:14:35Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Dude, I know plenty of people who voted for Obama, belong to unions, and yet – they own guns. Go figure. Many of them family members. (A lot of my relatives like to go hunting) > > Stereotypes like that are bullshit. What Stereotype? Some teachers are anti gun and some are not. I suspect the ones that are not anti gun are the ones that will teach gun safety courses. I agree that there are many democratic gun owners. I wish the democratic party knew that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-every-fool-who-claims-i-didnt-know-it-was-loaded/693939.md?page=5)