# I pit exaggeration about SDMB partisan-ness **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 6, 2010, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968 "2010-01-06T22:30:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/141 "2010-01-09T15:30:08Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Only for certain limited definitions of tilting/leaning to the left\*. > > CMC fnord! > \*Google image search for “[Leaning Tower of Pisa](http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&newwindow=1&q=Leaning+Tower+of+Pisa&sa=N&start=0&ndsp=20)” of the first 20 pics 2 show it leaning to the left. :rolleyes: > > Could you at least make some effort to not look like an idiot when you post dear **Clothahump**? He was making a rhetorical point by using an example of an object that is well known to lean. There are two possibilities here: You either didn’t understand that, and I’ve now helped you out. Or…you know damned well what he meant and you wanted to take the opportunity to try and undermine his point with an intentionally obtuse nitpick. It would only have been better if you had quoted him saying “it tilts left further than the Leaning Tower of Pisa” and simply said “Cite!” ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_One](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/45deac/32.png) [@Evil\_One](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_One)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/142 "2010-01-09T15:41:51Z")
> [@nameless](#): > > You’re saying something that is going to mean a hundred different things to a hundred different people. _Of course_ everyone is just going to take offense, you’ve given them an opportunity to do so and this is the _internet_ we’re talking about. A good point, nameless. I appreciate the insight. I spoke in generalties because I was trying to make a larger point about mindset rather than point out a specific example. One of the more annoying tactics on this board is that obviously intelligent people sometimes pretend not to understand or accept obvious concepts or ideas if they disagree with them. I’ve been following politics closely for nearly 30 years now. There are any number of tendencies, positions and “truths” on both sides of the spectrum. For example: Republicans buy votes with tax cuts…democrats buy them with social spending. Anyone with a basic understanding of politics would agree with that. If I posted that, I would get a chorus of “Yeah and they give the money to their corporate criminal buddies!” regarding the republicans and a bunch of indignant sputtering and cite demands regarding the democrats. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/143 "2010-01-09T16:08:39Z")
> [@nameless](#): > > And who listens to **Der Trihs** , **gonzomax** , **ElvisL1ves** , and (increasingly) **Diogenes** on the subject of politics anymore anyway? They may be lovely people in other contexts, but you can’t let them kneecap you like this. Because then The Terrorists Win. I fully admit that it is more difficult for conservatives on this board to avoid the torrent of left wing harpy shrieking that comes from 3 of those 4 you named than it is for the liberal members to avoid the torrent of right wing harpy shrieking from the likes of Clothy, Shodan, and Starving Artist. But the solution to the problem is not to become more like those who annoy you, it is to be better than them. And not many on the right do that. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/144 "2010-01-09T16:12:31Z")
I don’t think anybody is saying the board doesn’t lean left, it’s just not as far left as some claim. We even have [a poll](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=543443) that demonstrates this. 30% of the respondents are conservative. What message board do conservatives consider to be moderate? ---
**Author:** ![tacoloco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/7993a0/32.png) [@tacoloco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tacoloco)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/145 "2010-01-09T16:21:16Z")
> [@WarmNPrickly](#): > > I don’t think anybody is saying the board doesn’t lean left, it’s just not as far left as some claim. We even have [a poll](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=543443) that demonstrates this. 30% of the respondents are conservative. > > What message board do conservatives consider to be moderate? > **[Latest Articles](https://freerepublic.com/tag/*/index)** ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/146 "2010-01-09T16:50:26Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Why do you constantly say things that are just patently untrue? You do this ALL The time. It’s like you don’t even care what the truth is - you just spew whatever sounds good at any given time. > > From the latest Gallup Poll: [Conservatives Finish 2009 as No. 1 Ideological Group](http://www.gallup.com/poll/124958/Conservatives-Finish-2009-No-1-Ideological-Group.aspx). > > Not only are Conservatives the largest self-identified political group in the U.S., they outnumber liberals by more than 2-1. Independents who identify as conservative have increased from 30% to 35%. Only 18% of independents call themselves liberals. > > So, you had it pretty much backwards. It’s liberals who are the smallest political group in America, and Conservatives are the largest. By a more than 2-1 ratio. > > I know this won’t stop you from posting the same lie in the future, but I’m writing this so that any lurkers reading this won’t be taken in by your bullshit. > > You’re also wrong about the smarter people being liberals, but those stats have been shown to you repeatedly and you still won’t shut up about it. Look it up yourself. Quote more Fox like it is gospel. That will win. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/147 "2010-01-09T16:54:34Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > I fully admit that it is more difficult for conservatives on this board to avoid the torrent of left wing harpy shrieking that comes from 3 of those 4 you named than it is for the liberal members to avoid the torrent of right wing harpy shrieking from the likes of Clothy, Shodan, and Starving Artist. But the solution to the problem is not to become more like those who annoy you, it is to be better than them. And not many on the right do that. There you go again. “Harpy shrieking” That will elevate the discussion level. It must be someone elses fault. Yet that is a typical right winger debating as fairly as he can. I suppose Beck, Rush, and others have popularized insults and we should expect the same from their" ditto heads". ---
**Author:** ![Lord\_Ashtar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ea924/32.png) [@Lord\_Ashtar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lord_Ashtar)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/148 "2010-01-09T17:21:24Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Quote more Fox like it is gospel. That will win. You didn’t even look at his link, did you? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/149 "2010-01-09T17:23:48Z")
We must not obfuscate the role of snarky catchphrases that nominally encourage partisan slobbering, but long ago should have perished due to overuse and terminal cuteness. I propose the following for the compost pile of dead invective: “libruls”, “oh noes!!!11111”, “teabaggers”, “Usual Suspects”, “Bush”, “Rush” and so on. Nothing wrong with the classics like “dick” and “asshole”. “Tantrummy” is good. Other flavors of insult such as “phlegmon” and “incarcerated hernia” would provide a welcome break as well. We should elevate our discourse. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/150 "2010-01-09T17:53:43Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Only for certain limited definitions of tilting/leaning to the left\*. > > CMC fnord! > \*Google image search for “[Leaning Tower of Pisa](http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&safe=off&newwindow=1&q=Leaning+Tower+of+Pisa&sa=N&start=0&ndsp=20)” of the first 20 pics 2 show it leaning to the left. :rolleyes: > > Could you at least make some effort to not look like an idiot when you post dear **Clothahump**? Oh, I do, dear heart. My posts simply make you look like an idiot, but it goes right over your head. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 6:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/151 "2010-01-09T18:31:52Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > There you go again. “Harpy shrieking” That will elevate the discussion level. It must be someone elses fault. Yet that is a typical right winger debating as fairly as he can. I suppose Beck, Rush, and others have popularized insults and we should expect the same from their" ditto heads". Dude, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you don’t know what the fuck you are talking about, because you are so far from reality with this post that you’re gone over into bizarro world. Never, ever insult me like that again. “Right winger” indeed. Might as well call me a monkey raper. And, by the by, notice how I said “3 of the 4”? I’m rethinking that one. And, just so you know, many of us on the liberal side of the fence think your kind of posts are as inane as anything Beck, Rush, and Hannity could come up with. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/152 "2010-01-09T18:36:23Z")
I understand the desperate need repubs have to convince themselves The Dope is a unique and weird bastion of liberals. Why would that be? What is so special about it? Sorry, but it is just a reflection of society . Why wouldn’t it be? ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 6:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/153 "2010-01-09T18:48:26Z")
> [@MaxTheVool](#): > > \*…snip… > \* > This has various implications: > -If you post something right-leaning, more people will disagree with you than if you post something left-leaning > -If you post something left-leaning, more people will agree with you than if you post something right-leaning > -Because every group has a fringe of jackasses, if you post something anything-leaning you are quite likely to engender some number of vitriolic and poorly reasoned responses, probably more from the left (due to larger overall population) than the right You seem to be setting the table for some reasoned disagreements. I hope it wasn’t inadvertent. The biggest problem, in my view, isn’t as much as “we’re left leaning” , but the “we’re left leaning and we’re special!” I want to gag every time I see a “…but the SDMB is self selecting toward higher intellect…” (and those comments are common) So I agree that every group has jackasses, and we have our share. (and, imo, more than our share) But we have what all groups have: mostly average, ordinary people. All, it seems, have been led to believe we’re a division of Mensa. > [@](#): > > HOWEVER, I’m getting very sick of people overstating how left-leaning and partisan this board is. How often have we read something like “but we all know that if you post anything even remotely supportive of Bush you’ll be treated worse than Hitler” or “I learned a long time ago not to post my conservative views because I’d be shouted down by gangs of morons” or “and then the SDMB liberal hive-mind…” or what have you? You won’t be treated “worse than Hitler”, however you will immediately be the _center_ of attention. A single poster may have 20 people posting directly at/to him/her. There is often a mob mentality that takes hold. Theres strength in numbers (and courage, false as it may be) And those 20 people posting at the one [right leaning] poster will include 1 or 2 bright, reasoned, non-hyperbolic posters, 15 or so absolutely average (and mostly poorly informed) posters emboldened by the lack of diversity, and 2 or 2 jackasses. Just like the general population. > [@](#): > > Thing is, the vast majority of these hyperbolic statements are just plain false. It is absolutely possible to espouse a conservative viewpoint on the SDMB and have people respect you as a poster and respond to your views with (mostly) reasoned non-personal attacks. Granted, it’s probably not as easy as it should be, and granted there will likely be a fringe of responses that do in fact fit the stereotype of rabid blindly liberal hive mind… but in fact polite debate about issues can and does happen here all the time. And not all pro-Obama or anti-Bush threads immediately descend into left wing crotchgrabbing. I distinctly remember a pit thread started around 2007 whose OP was basically “my neighbor has a Bush sign in his yard. My neighbor is so dumb! LOLOLOL!” and it was met by a resounding chorus of “you’re an idiot”. (I wish I’d saved a link to it…) Generally not true, IME. Generally, not universally. There could be so much more, but the lack of diversity prevents it. There nothing pernicious about it, and I don’t anything needs to be done about it. Birds of a feather do flock together, and theres nothing wrong about that. But call a spade a spade. From time to time a polite intelligent discussion can be had. But the lack of diversity most often has right leaning posters of all flavors beating hasty retreats. (to other parts of the internet I presume) I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen a new poster get a “friendly” warning up front, telling the [new] poster [essentially] “we’ve seen your kind before and we’re highly experienced/ knowledgeable about your OP and we’ve seen every variation of your argument and debunked tham all”; when the truth is, “we see your kind and you will quickly be overwhelmed by the 20 people who will be posting directly to you. You will become disoriented at the volume of the challenges and accusations, and you won’t last long.” From my POV, any ideal can only be honed by exposing it to bright, reasoned counterpoints. But for every Shodan who sticks around, theres probably a hundred who say “I don’t need this aggravation.” It’s then that illusion is reaffirmed; the illusion that they left in the face of a superior argument—quality----- when most often they were beaten by quantity. They were mugged. > [@](#): > > So, why do I care enough to rant about it? For three reasons: > (1) It’s an easy way to avoid having to actually discuss issues. “Sure, I’d like to defend my claim that (some right wing position), but we all know that there’s no point in arguing with the SDMB left blah blah blah”. Which is a shame. If there’s one thing this board desperately needs it’s more reasoned arguments from the right. I agree with you 100%. But I don’t think it will ever happen without a much higher level of diversity. And I just don’t see that happening. Ironically, the left leaning arguments can only improve and be refined with a healthy counterpoint from the right. > [@](#): > > (2) It’s insulting. I’m generally on the left and I post on the SDMB. Every time I see someone talk about how the SDMB left is just a bunch of monkeys (or whatever) I take it as a personal insult, because, as far as I know, they’re talking about me. Thus, rancor grows and the likelihood of reasoned debate decreases. They are talking about you. > [@](#): > > (3) It’s self-fulfilling. The more people make hyperbolic comments about the board’s partisan nature, even if they’re consciously meant to be partisan, the more the meme perpetuates itself… when right-wing SDMB users read such things it just puts them in the mindset of starting out super defensive and combative, ready to defend their beliefs against the presumed onslaught of assholes. And the more left-wingers read them, the more they bristle about how unfairly they’re being misrepresented, and the less likely they are to be in a mood to engage in polite debate. > So… cut it out, everyone! Great. Blame the victim.I’m neither left or right and don’t care one way or another. I don’t see those right wingers **ever** _“starting out”_ “super defensive and combative” but many end up that way after getting 50 posts directed at them. Face it. The corner bar you hang out in is partisan. You likely don’t have many “ditto-heads” as friends. And this board is no different. You want higher quality debates/discussions? Increase diversity. You’ll get a bunch of right wingers----a few of which that are bright and reasoned, a whole bunch of ditto-heads, and a few jackasses—same as the left here. The problem is a lack of diversity----not the few brave or silly right leaning people who have dared to post here. ---
**Author:** ![nameless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/779978/32.png) [@nameless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nameless)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/154 "2010-01-09T18:55:09Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > Sorry, but it is just a reflection of society . Why wouldn’t it be? Oh come now. I can, off the top of my head, think of about hundred ways we don’t represent society as a whole. We’re predominantly American, literate, well-educated, and (I would guess) Caucasian. We have fewer devout individuals; of our religious folk I suspect a disproportionately high number are Christian compared to the general world populace. I would also guess we speak more languages, type faster, and are better paid than your average world citizen. Why is it, then, so hard to believe that we’re probably also different in some other parameter–namely, that we are more liberal than your average American? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/155 "2010-01-09T18:59:21Z")
Nevermind. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/156 "2010-01-09T19:06:22Z")
> [@nameless](#): > > Oh come now. I can, off the top of my head, think of about hundred ways we don’t represent society as a whole. We’re predominantly American, literate, well-educated, and (I would guess) Caucasian. We have fewer devout individuals; of our religious folk I suspect a disproportionately high number are Christian compared to the general world populace. I would also guess we speak more languages, type faster, and are better paid than your average world citizen. Why is it, then, so hard to believe that we’re probably also different in some other parameter–namely, that we are more liberal than your average American? These are the kind of posts that make me gag. I don’t see one iota of evidence from reading tens of thousands of posts that this board is in any way more literate, or well educated than any barber shop, softball team or corner bar. ‘More languages, typing faster or better paid’, is laughable IMV. In fact, I’ve often had the impression that Dopers take more medication (particularly antidepressants) , have more addictions, and in general seem lower paid. ---
**Author:** ![nameless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/779978/32.png) [@nameless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nameless)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 7:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/157 "2010-01-09T19:15:05Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > These are the kind of posts that make me gag. I don’t see one iota of evidence from reading tens of thousands of posts that this board is in any way more literate, or well educated than any barber shop, softball team or corner. Sorry, but you’re being America-centric here. Here’s my logic–we’re an international board. Since we’re predominantly American in composition, it follows, I would imagine, that we’re wealthier, and probably better educated than your _average world citizen_. Since we’re necessarily on the internet, we probably type faster than your average world citizen, who may never have used a computer. I’m not trying to put us up on a pedestal or anything–far from it. Being largely American, we’re probably also fatter, and have higher rates of mental illness, etc. All I am saying is we are likely skewed to one direction on any number of variables–height, weight, income, whatever. And I am using this to try and illustrate to **gonzomax** that it is at least possible that political orientation is one more variable on which the SDMB may be atypical from the world at large. That’s really all I’m doing here. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/158 "2010-01-09T20:16:13Z")
> [@raindog](#): > > These are the kind of posts that make me gag. I don’t see one iota of evidence from reading tens of thousands of posts that this board is in any way more literate, or well educated than any barber shop, softball team or corner bar. ‘More languages, typing faster or better paid’, is laughable IMV. > > In fact, I’ve often had the impression that Dopers take more medication (particularly antidepressants) , have more addictions, and in general seem lower paid. Well educated or better paid? Arguable. More literate? Absolutely. Cast your eyes to any other message board and you’ll be shocked at the quality of spelling and grammar. Hell, even the majority of our posters who speak English as a second or third language are better at writing and comprehending written English than the average American. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/159 "2010-01-09T20:36:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well educated or better paid? Arguable. More literate? Absolutely. Cast your eyes to any other message board and you’ll be shocked at the quality of spelling and grammar. Fuk u, u stuped a whole. ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968/160 "2010-01-09T21:01:20Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Well educated or better paid? Arguable. More literate? Absolutely. Cast your eyes to any other message board and you’ll be shocked at the quality of spelling and grammar. > > Hell, even the majority of our posters who speak English as a second or third language are better at writing and comprehending written English than the average American. I see virtually no evidence of this at all. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/i-pit-exaggeration-about-sdmb-partisan-ness/523968.md?page=9)